Turkish Tank Sees Pakistani, Saudi Interest.

[Zarvan]

well it would make sense as south korea is looking at the pakistani market very closley. but you have to remember the altay is large varient of the k2 and the chances of a successfully exporting the altay to pakistan is greater than the k2.
the k2being 55 tonnes is probably the maximum pakistan will acept since it likes sub 50 tonne tanks.

to to be hnest they will not buy a new platform. they will develop the ak2 varient. they were interested in the daewoo and s&t 1500hp engine which will be avaliable in late 2016.

also uncle sam has a lot of strings in south korea so it may interviene, and what are the chances that it does not contain any americain parts?
heck it may be worth a shot going for the k2
i think a k2 vs altay thread is calling

Sir AK 2 would be their this Tank would cone as AL HAIDER project. Pakistan is looking for on other Tank either it would be OPLOT M or T-99 A2 or Altay

 

[Beast]

China used T72. t.But, its really battle hardened tank and it proved its performance in Syrian war. It take hit , but nothing stop this little beas

If you know nothing, i advise you stop talking nonsense. China never used T-72. Fake paskitanis living in America. Even our worst modern Type96 trump T-72 10 times.

Let us clarify

Altay is not a copy. It came with ToT from K2 and license production of German engine.

Type 99...well I'd only laugh if you call Altay a copy in front of this tank considering that the Chinese is the master of copying stuff amd branding them as 'made in china'. Although I think they're doing a pretty good job with that though from their view.





So by 2022,,we keep it at 18 bn dollars?
Anyways, I'd have wanted to be kept this way and spend the future additional income to education. But yeah, we not supposed to be pacifist here are we.

TBH, I expect an economic leap from Pakistan once CPEC is operational and a solution basis in Afghanistan is set. Then the future defense spending may even be higher than you've proposed if we realistically think optimistic here.

Atlay is indeed is just repackage of Leopard 2. As for Chinese, our Type99 do not depend on foreign engine. Everything is made in China. Unlike Turkish who need to obey master German in order for spare and engine to be continued supply if not whole Turkish military industries will break down

Pakistanis buying this tank will have great danger of having the spare cut off if something like human right or some BS excuse comes in. Buying from China has no such danger. Even the engine from Russian for JF-17 do not link with human right BS or political nonsense.

 

[Akasa]

If you know nothing, i advise you stop talking nonsense. China never used T-72. Fake paskitanis living in America. Even our worst modern Type96 trump T-72 10 times.

Atlay is indeed is just repackage of Leopard 2. As for Chinese, our Type99 do not depend on foreign engine. Everything is made in China. Unlike Turkish who need to obey master German in order for spare and engine to be continued supply if not whole Turkish military industries will break down

Pakistanis buying this tank will have great danger of having the spare cut off if something like human right or some BS excuse comes in. Buying from China has no such danger. Even the engine from Russian for JF-17 do not link with human right BS or political nonsense.

Let's tame our emotions and look at things rationally.

1. True, the Chinese never used the T-72, but the early variant of the Type 96 did use some design moieties found on the former (which was most likely obtained from captured or donated T-72s). The improved 3rd-generation Type 96A, however, did away with many of these elements by incorporating far newer subsystems, including technologies from the Type 99.

2. The Altay has little to do with the Leopard 2, and was instead developed in partnership with the same South Korean company (Hyundai Rotem) that designed the K2. Most subsystems, including main gun (MKEK), armor (Roketsan), and electronics (Aselsan), are developed by Turkish contractors. Granted, the tank does seem to bear a faint semblance of the South Korean K2, but Turkish companies were responsible for researching and ultimately deploying all of its technologies.

Its engine is slated to be replaced by a domestic powerplant developed by TUMOSAN, so any German control on its export of MTU engines is unlikely to affect future exports of the Altay:

Turkish Firm To Produce Tank Engine

 

[HAIDER]

If you know nothing, i advise you stop talking nonsense. China never used T-72. Fake paskitanis living in America. Even our worst modern Type96 trump T-72 10 times.

Atlay is indeed is just repackage of Leopard 2. As for Chinese, our Type99 do not depend on foreign engine. Everything is made in China. Unlike Turkish who need to obey master German in order for spare and engine to be continued supply if not whole Turkish military industries will break down

Pakistanis buying this tank will have great danger of having the spare cut off if something like human right or some BS excuse comes in. Buying from China has no such danger. Even the engine from Russian for JF-17 do not link with human right BS or political nonsense.

You need to calm down....if you know nothing ask me to prove it...so I am proving now. May be Chinese stop using it now.


T-72 tank, Royal Australian Armoured Corps Tank Museum

A Chinese T-72 tank located at the Puckapunyal Army Tank museum in Victoria Australia.

 

[Beast]

You need to calm down....if you know nothing ask me to prove it...so I am proving now. May be Chinese stop using it now.


T-72 tank, Royal Australian Armoured Corps Tank Museum

A Chinese T-72 tank located at the Puckapunyal Army Tank museum in Victoria Australia.

What does it proves? It proves only you know thing.

 

[HAIDER]

What does it proves? It proves only you know thing.

Now you know too.

 

[Beast]

Let's tame our emotions and look at things rationally.

1. True, the Chinese never used the T-72, but the early variant of the Type 96 did use some design moieties found on the former (which was most likely obtained from captured or donated T-72s). The improved 3rd-generation Type 96A, however, did away with many of these elements by incorporating far newer subsystems, including technologies from the Type 99.

2. The Altay has little to do with the Leopard 2, and was instead developed in partnership with the same South Korean company (Hyundai Rotem) that designed the K2. Most subsystems, including main gun (MKEK), armor (Roketsan), and electronics (Aselsan), are developed by Turkish contractors. Granted, the tank does seem to bear a faint semblance of the South Korean K2, but Turkish companies were responsible for researching and ultimately deploying all of its technologies.

Its engine is slated to be replaced by a domestic powerplant developed by TUMOSAN, so any German control on its export of MTU engines is unlikely to affect future exports of the Altay:

Turkish Firm To Produce Tank Engine

First of all, China did inspect the T-72 but the chasis and autoloader is different from T-72 and so as the turret. To claim China used T-72 by the fake Pakistanis is just a dumb comment.

I am amused by you engine slated to be replaced... The research is only started last year and is expected to enter service in 2018-2019 or even beyond or never. We dont even know whether its will materialize or not. Turkey is a country that do not have good record in propulsion system and do not have a huge research budget like US, China or Japan. So I am doubt the proposed domestic engine will be success. If PA buys Altay, they will need another decade for the Turkish domestic engine. Can PA wait for that?

Now you know too.

Its does not prove anything. As I say, you know nothing and just spread nonsense.

So if we goes by your theory, China used Mig-23? What a dumb analogy you can come up with.

 

[Akasa]

First of all, China did inspect the T-72 but the chasis and autoloader is different from T-72 and so as the turret. To claim China used T-72 by the fake Pakistanis is just a dumb comment.

I am amused by you engine slated to be replaced... The research is only started last year and is expected to enter service in 2018-2019 or even beyond or never. We dont even know whether its will materialize or not. Turkey is a country that do not have good record in propulsion system and do not have a huge research budget like US, China or Japan. So I am doubt the proposed domestic engine will be success. If PA buys Altay, they will need another decade for the Turkish domestic engine. Can PA wait for that?

Turkey was (thus far) successful in developing the tank's sensors, armor, and main gun; what makes you think engines would be a bottleneck when other countries of comparable caliber has developed them?

Even if we disregard the notion of an indigenous Turkish engine, Altay's export prospects will unlikely be undermined by a foreign-developed engine, as Otokar has agreed to license-produce the German MTU powerpacks (please note that the MBT-2000 is also being exported with a Ukrainian engine). Unless German-Turkish business relations hits a speed bump between now and the date that their indigenous engine becomes certified, there is no reason to believe that the Altay would be barred from export.

 

[Beast]

Turkey was (thus far) successful in developing the tank's sensors, armor, and main gun; what makes you think engines would be a bottleneck when other countries of comparable caliber has developed them?

Even if we disregard the notion of an indigenous Turkish engine, Altay's export prospects will unlikely be undermined by a foreign-developed engine, as Otokar has agreed to license-produce the German MTU powerpacks (please note that the MBT-2000 is also being exported with a Ukrainian engine). Unless German-Turkish business relations hits a speed bump between now and the date that their indigenous engine becomes certified, there is no reason to believe that the Altay would be barred from export.

I am surprised at your ignorant of the difficulties of making an modern indigenous propulsion system. Even a huge countries like China struggle initially to make such system. Be it budget constraint and technical of metallurgy. China only see the light after more than double digit billion of investment on institutional research, talent and a decades of setup relevant facilities.

Now we got a genius who claim Turkey with an economy size less than South Korea and military budget of less than USD 15 billion Turkey is going to be successful in making an indigenous modern propulsion system in short time(few years)?

Do you know even South Korea are struggling in making indigenous propulsion system even she achieved impressive stride in electronic and sensor in military industries?

DailyTech - South Korean Rocket Launch Ends in Failure

Until now , all South korea propulsion system are licensed built tank engines to aero turbofan engines. None of them are so called local developed. Even Sweden Gripen iengine s basically a licensed build US F404 engine with none of their own input or design. The only small economy countries who is quite advanced in propulsion system is Ukraine which owes everything to its legacy of part of Soviet Union when budget is lavish and talent is unlimited.

Nothing to do with its current hardwork or small investment.

So what makes you think Turkey will be successful?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Sir AK 2 would be their this Tank would cone as AL HAIDER project. Pakistan is looking for on other Tank either it would be OPLOT M or T-99 A2 or Altay

so... they can still take parts of other tanks and use it on the ak2 and the al haider
heck throw in the k2 tank as well.
what do you think they will get and why?

 

[-SINAN-]

Pakistan's defense budget has crossed the $ 10 billion per year mark. They don't announce it to maintain a low key posture. By 2018-2020, their defense budget would be going north of $ 15 billion a year (as their economy improves). By 2022, it would be in the range of $ 18+ billion, surpassing Turkey!!

Turkey's defence budget is already at $18+ Billion
Defense Budget by Country
By the end of the 2018 it's expected to reach $23+ Billion.
Turkey could double its arms spending by 2018 - DEFENSE UPDATE

I am amused by you engine slated to be replaced... The research is only started last year and is expected to enter service in 2018-2019 or even beyond or never. We dont even know whether its will materialize or not. Turkey is a country that do not have good record in propulsion system and do not have a huge research budget like US, China or Japan. So I am doubt the proposed domestic engine will be success. If PA buys Altay, they will need another decade for the Turkish domestic engine. Can PA wait for that?

:/

You may not know it but we are not green on the engine platforms.

Ecotorq is a heavy duty diesel engine primarily used in Ford Cargoheavy duty trucks, designed and built by Ford Otosan. Ecotorq is billed as the first diesel engine completely built with CAD/CAM technologies in Turkey
Ford Ecotorq engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A technology licensing agreement was signed on April 24th, 2013 between Ford Otosan and Jiangling Motors Corporation Ltd. of China, where Ford Motor Company holds 31.5% share in, and its affiliate JMC Heavy Duty Vehicle Co.Ltd. With this agreement our company has granted the intellectual property rights of the Ecotorq engines to the subject companies to be used exclusively in the JMC branded vehicles manufactured in China, to sell the licensed products and JMC branded vehicles containing these products in China and the export markets that will be agreed by the parties in line with the conditions set forth by our company.

http://www.fordotosan.com.tr/downlo...otorq Engine Technology Licence Agreement.pdf

Surprised ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I've been telling people from day one that Pakistan will buy this tank or a version of it from day one. It gives the army unparalleled armoured strength, a tank that is on par with the best Western tanks and from one of its dear allies i.e. the threat of sanctions etc isn't there.
I hope to see close to 500. The rest can be Al-Khalid versions, making up a force of more than 2,700.

And I've been wondering why you think AK-I is useless ?

It trumps T-90s or any other tank being operated or under development in the region!

Meanwhile Pak hopes to produce and induct a more powerful variant -- AK-II..

What real advantage does Altay have over AK..?

 

[waz]

And I've been wondering why you think AK-I is useless ?

It trumps T-90s or any other tank being operated or under development in the region!

Meanwhile Pak hopes to produce and induct a more powerful variant -- AK-II..

What real advantage does Altay have over AK..?

No, not at all. I mentioned advanced versions of the Al-Khalid. It should be our mainstay tank. I'm fond of it. The Altay would compliment (huge armour, powerful gun) . I agree it trumps the other T-series we see around.

You may not know it but we are not green on the engine platforms.

Ecotorq is a heavy duty diesel engine primarily used in Ford Cargoheavy duty trucks, designed and built by Ford Otosan. Ecotorq is billed as the first diesel engine completely built with CAD/CAM technologies in Turkey
Ford Ecotorq engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A technology licensing agreement was signed on April 24th, 2013 between Ford Otosan and Jiangling Motors Corporation Ltd. of China, where Ford Motor Company holds 31.5% share in, and its affiliate JMC Heavy Duty Vehicle Co.Ltd. With this agreement our company has granted the intellectual property rights of the Ecotorq engines to the subject companies to be used exclusively in the JMC branded vehicles manufactured in China, to sell the licensed products and JMC branded vehicles containing these products in China and the export markets that will be agreed by the parties in line with the conditions set forth by our company.

http://www.fordotosan.com.tr/downloads/yatirimciiliskileri/Ecotorq Engine Technology Licence Agreement.pdf

Surprised ?

Good news bro. I'm hoping to see developments for the Altay engine issue.

 

[-SINAN-]

Good news bro. I'm hoping to see developments for the Altay engine issue.

That's just an issue of time.

Turkish Firm To Produce Tank Engine
Austrian Know-how for Turkish Tank Engine

 

[waz]

That's just an issue of time.

Turkish Firm To Produce Tank Engine
Austrian Know-how for Turkish Tank Engine

Good stuff, a matter of time indeed.