Turkish Tank Sees Pakistani, Saudi Interest.

[Zarvan]

Think Tanks and MODS of forum should contact HIT and at least get some up dates

 

[Path-Finder]

The sanctions risk is still there since Altay using foreign engine, Pakistan may wait till 1800HP locally design Turkish engine available. Our Al Khalid II also waiting for reliable source of engine since situation in Ukraine quite worse.
The best option is jointly develop Al Khalid II by mixing Altay and Al Khalid tech with Turkish 1800HP engine.

Otokar General Manager Serdar Görgüç has announced that the company is considering the development of an electric engine for the Altay. Görgüç stated that an electric engine would reduce the ability of the enemy to identify the tank with thermal cameras in the battle field. He added that "Vehicles with internal combustion can be caught on thermal cameras". Otokar developed an electric engine for its buses and is working on retrofitting its design to the Altay tank.

if this development is achieved then it will be a major breakthrough in the world of armor. leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. then getting Altay into service will have to be done.

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

Pakistan get benefit fromTurkish and Chinese friends to make more better Al-Khaled series tanks

 

[HAIDER]

Best tank by weight and range is T72 for Pakistan . Small, agile , light, good protective armor , good handling in marshy area, best cooling system in high temperature , no modification needed like other tanks, plus China is using them for long time. excellent climbing speed. PA reject heavy tanks

 

[waz]

The sanctions risk is still there since Altay using foreign engine, Pakistan may wait till 1800HP locally design Turkish engine available. Our Al Khalid II also waiting for reliable source of engine since situation in Ukraine quite worse.
The best option is jointly develop Al Khalid II by mixing Altay and Al Khalid tech with Turkish 1800HP engine.

Otokar General Manager Serdar Görgüç has announced that the company is considering the development of an electric engine for the Altay. Görgüç stated that an electric engine would reduce the ability of the enemy to identify the tank with thermal cameras in the battle field. He added that "Vehicles with internal combustion can be caught on thermal cameras". Otokar developed an electric engine for its buses and is working on retrofitting its design to the Altay tank.

Turkey is working on its own engine and there other options also available.

You are one hardcore fan of Atlay......

Yep, because it will give Pakistan an edge over the horrible T-series, Soviet era tanks. You're better off traveling in a cardboard box than one of those things.

Heavy tanks need a proper infrastructure and transportation.. Our railway bridges and railway isn't capable enough to carry those heavy tanks at good speed..

Before inducting heavy tanks Pakistan should wait for modernization of railway first ... Which is currently undergoing ..

That's fast changing, and the army corps of engineers could see to that quickly.

 

[Dazzler]

No altays for Pakistan, not suited to our terrain and is sanction prone, too heavy and expensive . Not to mention, it uses 120mm for which we'll have to buy ammo from overseas which is not on. I don't know why people keep repeating the same story over and over.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

So now we showing interest in Altay... after Chinese T-99

Not necessarily. Indigenous program and imported ones can go hand in hand. Given the price and requirements of Pak Army, it could be a mix of two or three types. Something like F-16, JF-17 model of PAF. Let's say 500 Altay could make tip of the spear while Al-khalid, T-80 and T-59s can give numbers with reasonably good upgrades. Terrain will also feature in here. One type may be more suitable for a certain type of terrain. Terrain varies a lot in Pakistan, from marshes, vegetation, deserts to maze of water channels, hills, ravines and deep rivers.

We are doing both we are developing advance version of AL KHALID and also going for another powerful Tank. We like to have various Tanks

Pakistan Army has been busy over the past few months testing various new tanks that might be added to Pakistan Army's Tank Force. Many treads have been posted and pictures of the trials have also surfaced.
Ukraine offered the OBLOT- M .... This tank failed the tests.
China offered the T-99 .... This tank is not giving the required punch.
Russia offered the T90.... Trials were to be held in December...No details.
Pakistan wanted the ARMATA .... No details.

Option that remains is ALTAY....

Abraham's were tested and rejected. Upgraded are not offered.
Leopard .... Not offered.
Larec... Not offered.

Requirement for a heavy Tank is for the Eastern border. USA operated the Abraham's without any problem in Afghanistan so ALTAY would have no difficulty.

As far as the issue of infrastructure is concerned the entire US and NATO supplies that went to Afghanistan were on Trucks and the roads have been strengthened to carry such loads. If alternate Train Tracks are available then that is a bonus.

If Pakistan Army indeed decides to purchase ALTAY then they would also buy the TULPAR and some other equipment.

Engine is not an issue as Ukraine has transferred the latest engine production facility to Turkey.

thats $3 billion. and thats just $6 million each! what if you want the tech as well? and the cost of setting the factory up as well. $3 billion is just under half of pakistans defence budget. and they just brought 5 billions worth of subs only last year.
but i think its worth saying the coas saw a bit more than the ak1
View attachment 287344

The cost of 1000 Altay which Turkey is going to Pay is 5-6 Billion + 3 - 5 billion for the project cost. So if Pakistan does realistically go after 500 tanks 100% made in Turkey They would be paying around 3 + 3 Billion for Parts. However if Pakistan decides to pay 6 -7 billion it can produce 1000 Altay and the parts locally allowing to increase the numbers as required... Also Export options could be exercised.

No altays for Pakistan, not suited to our terrain and is sanction prone, too heavy and expensive . Not to mention, it uses 120mm for which we'll have to buy ammo from overseas which is not on. I don't know why people keep repeating the same story over and over.

No doubt you might be correct in regards to ALTAY being not suited for Pakistan, still there are certain other reasons that Pakistan would induct these tanks. These reasons are based on the role Pakistan might be playing in the Islamic World.

120mm is not produced in Pakistan agreed but it can be produced we do have the prerequisites.

IMPO these tanks if procured would be coming for the United Arab Army which is created under the Arab League. Pakistan would also be selling its Al-Khalids to other countries as a medium tank.

 

[mustafa erkan]

Not to mention, it uses 120mm for which we'll have to buy ammo from overseas

yes right but it will have milimetricwave radar and will use guided ammuniations at next batches altays as i remember.IF Pakistan wants to use these smart ammunations you must buy from abroad or develop yourself .I if dont you have a company cable of devoloping these smart ammunations like roketsan.
Smart ammos are very important and 120 mm guns will fire them.Thats why we knocked on Hyundai Rotems door.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Pakistan Army has been busy over the past few months testing various new tanks that might be added to Pakistan Army's Tank Force. Many treads have been posted and pictures of the trials have also surfaced.
Ukraine offered the OBLOT- M .... This tank failed the tests.
China offered the T-99 .... This tank is not giving the required punch.
Russia offered the T90.... Trials were to be held in December...No details.
Pakistan wanted the ARMATA .... No details.

Option that remains is ALTAY....

Abraham's were tested and rejected. Upgraded are not offered.
Leopard .... Not offered.
Larec... Not offered.
.

Not given the required Punch? and what punch is that.... any comparison of Altay with T-99 would be great thanks

 

[Signalian]

Concerning transport, a heavy transporter is the first thing that a tracked vehicle needs, rail comes second.
These heavy transporters take the tanks from unit area to excercise area or battlefields.

The Army supply Corps uses these:

The 70 written in yellow means 70 tons weight. This tank transporter can weigh 70 Tons with a tank transported on it. Its a reference for bridges used in combat by Corps of Engineers/Pioneers, a bridge capable of supporting 70 ton weight is required for this transporter.
If Altay weighs 65 Tons already, this truck with its transporter itself must weigh above 5 tons taking the total weight above 70 Tons, which can be a problem.

I remember M-109 was 30, AZ is 40, M-113 is 13.

Second comes width. ALtay MBT is 13 feet wide, T-80 UD is 12.5 feet and Ak is 11.5 feet. This shouldnt be much of an issue if the weight was less to be carried by Tank Transporter.

Thirdly, PA modern tanks use 125mm ammo. AK,AZ, T-80 UD , Type-85. The older ones use 105mm for L-7 gun like Type-59/69 and they are being phased out so only 125mm ammo will remain in future.
ALtay MBT uses 120mm gun which is problem for logistics, a problem that Indian Army will face using T-90 or T-72 in same formation(brigade or Div) with Arjun MBT

 

[Blue Marlin]

The cost of 1000 Altay which Turkey is going to Pay is 5-6 Billion + 3 - 5 billion for the project cost. So if Pakistan does realistically go after 500 tanks 100% made in Turkey They would be paying around 3 + 3 Billion for Parts. However if Pakistan decides to pay 6 -7 billion it can produce 1000 Altay and the parts locally allowing to increase the numbers as required... Also Export options could be exercised.

i love your math

 

[Paksanity]

No altays for Pakistan, not suited to our terrain and is sanction prone, too heavy and expensive . Not to mention, it uses 120mm for which we'll have to buy ammo from overseas which is not on. I don't know why people keep repeating the same story over and over.

Fair points. How feasible would it be to customise it to our requirements to kill off these issues or as an alternate incorporate some of its technologies into one of our custom designed tank say based on T-90 or Type-99?

 

[untitled]

im starting to hate the word "interest"

You are definitely not a banker

 

[anatolia]

new drama on air

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan Army has been busy over the past few months testing various new tanks that might be added to Pakistan Army's Tank Force. Many treads have been posted and pictures of the trials have also surfaced.
Ukraine offered the OBLOT- M .... This tank failed the tests.
China offered the T-99 .... This tank is not giving the required punch.
Russia offered the T90.... Trials were to be held in December...No details.
Pakistan wanted the ARMATA .... No details.

Option that remains is ALTAY....

Abraham's were tested and rejected. Upgraded are not offered.
Leopard .... Not offered.
Larec... Not offered.

Requirement for a heavy Tank is for the Eastern border. USA operated the Abraham's without any problem in Afghanistan so ALTAY would have no difficulty.

As far as the issue of infrastructure is concerned the entire US and NATO supplies that went to Afghanistan were on Trucks and the roads have been strengthened to carry such loads. If alternate Train Tracks are available then that is a bonus.

If Pakistan Army indeed decides to purchase ALTAY then they would also buy the TULPAR and some other equipment.

Engine is not an issue as Ukraine has transferred the latest engine production facility to Turkey.



The cost of 1000 Altay which Turkey is going to Pay is 5-6 Billion + 3 - 5 billion for the project cost. So if Pakistan does realistically go after 500 tanks 100% made in Turkey They would be paying around 3 + 3 Billion for Parts. However if Pakistan decides to pay 6 -7 billion it can produce 1000 Altay and the parts locally allowing to increase the numbers as required... Also Export options could be exercised.



No doubt you might be correct in regards to ALTAY being not suited for Pakistan, still there are certain other reasons that Pakistan would induct these tanks. These reasons are based on the role Pakistan might be playing in the Islamic World.

120mm is not produced in Pakistan agreed but it can be produced we do have the prerequisites.

IMPO these tanks if procured would be coming for the United Arab Army which is created under the Arab League. Pakistan would also be selling its Al-Khalids to other countries as a medium tank.

First upcoming AL KHALID II is not a medium Tank it's a beast in the making with 1500 HP engine