Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[Neptune]

Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri millet ordusudur. Gücünü milletten alır. Dinden değil.

 

[T-123456]

Then you wont shout. But as I understand, you want noone to shout Allahu Akbar, because some people in majority dont want to shout. There is no such a World, you have to respect majority.

In a secular democracy you keep religion and governing separated,so religion and the army have nothing to do with each other.
However,if we become a religion(heading in that direction) based country,then shout ''Allahu Akbar'' all you want.
Btw,i dont buy it, you are not a Turkish ''sister''.

 

[-SINAN-]

Okay, what is the next step ? Beheading enemy soldiers, attacking positions with suicide vests ???

Keep religion out of Army, Politics and Science. It's not a hard feat to achieve.

 

[mehmet75]

This army always have being shouting Allah for centuries. When attacking, Mehmetçik allways wows "Allah ! Allah ! Allah!" ?

All the acting orders ends with "May Allah protect you" or "may Allah help you" .

All our ships have kuran on the tip off their masts. For centruies.

Almost in all of friday flag ceremonies, commanders finish their speeches as : " may Allah protect you".

In every ramazan eve or kurban eve ( religous festivals), officers salutes the units and they go namaz with soldiers.

Every military facility has mescit inside and it is free to go off course.

In ramazans, dinner times have being arranged according to sahur and iftar.

In which world do you live ? This army allways respected religion and lives religion, but not as an iranic or el kaide way. In its own way. It is nothing related with this government but because of internet and cell phones we see it more than past.

You shall not fall to the politic lies.

Stand behind your army .

 

[revojam]

In a secular democracy you keep religion and governing separated,so religion and the army have nothing to do with each other.
However,if we become a religion(heading in that direction) based country,then shout ''Allahu Akbar'' all you want.
Btw,i dont buy it, you are not a Turkish ''sister''.

Thinking same thing he is a male without a doubt.

 

[T-123456]

Thinking same thing he is a male without a doubt.

Yeah and we know from which corner.

 

[Hakan]

If this is true @Hakan than thanks to ALLAH real change has begun May ALLAH give them victory

This song has been played by the millitaries official ottoman military band for a while now so the only difference with this event is that it is being played in a non mehter unit . Imo.

If you would say "Allahu Akbar" 10-15 years before, before the current government, they would kick you out of army. Imagine such a Muslim country ... Muslim ???

I know an officer that got kicked out back in the day because his wife covered her hair.

This army always have being shouting Allah for centuries. When attacking, Mehmetçik allways wows "Allah ! Allah ! Allah!" ?

All the acting orders ends with "May Allah protect you" or "may Allah help you" .

All our ships have kuran on the tip off their masts. For centruies.

Almost in all of friday flag ceremonies, commanders finish their speeches as : " may Allah protect you".

In every ramazan eve or kurban eve ( religous festivals), officers salutes the units and they go namaz with soldiers.

Every military facility has mescit inside and it is free to go off course.

In ramazans, dinner times have being arranged according to sahur and iftar.

In which world do you live ? This army allways respected religion and lives religion, but not as an iranic or el kaide way. In its own way. It is nothing related with this government but because of internet and cell phones we see it more than past.

You shall not fall to the politic lies.

Stand behind your army .

Good point. The army has had these types of things for a long time. If we go with some peoples logic then we have to get rid of the statement "sehitler olmez" (martyrs never die) as that is an islamic statement, another one that would have to go is the line in the national anthem where it says "haka tapan milletimin istiklal" (freedom for my nation which worships god). There are more statements like that in the national anthem which have been around since the beggining of the republic.

Cenaze's would't be allowed to be associated with the military either.

Some statements here would need to be removed aswell:

But let us look at western standards:

The U.S military says hallelujah in their main battle song which means praise the lord in hebrew. Basically alahu ekber in another language.

The Battle Hymn of the Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His day is marching on.
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal";
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpentwith his heel,
Since God is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Since God is marching on.
He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.
In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
While God is marching on.
He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah.
Our God is marching on.
The u.s army has its own priests, imams and rabiis, oooooooh
About Army Chaplains | GoArmy.com

U.S Army

Israeli Army

German Army

While this discussion is open let me ad this aswell

 

[usernameless]

For me, the religious aspect is not important, but the traditional aspect is. If i was a soldier i would march/parade much MUCH more motivated (while shouting ceddin deden's lyrics) than marching silently while hearing some meaningless and soulless trumpets, flutes and instruments. if you don't get goosebumps after hearing ceddin deden's lyrics, even if you take away the instruments, i won't know what else will get you pumped up

I think the slightest Ottoman tradition or religion intermingling in the army is immediately seen as a threat to the nation, which is wrong as the democratic and secular countries we have taken as examples of themselves also openly refer to their traditions or religion (as @Hakan posted)

 

[BordoEnes]

This army always have being shouting Allah for centuries. When attacking, Mehmetçik allways wows "Allah ! Allah ! Allah!" ?

All the acting orders ends with "May Allah protect you" or "may Allah help you" .

All our ships have kuran on the tip off their masts. For centruies.

Almost in all of friday flag ceremonies, commanders finish their speeches as : " may Allah protect you".

In every ramazan eve or kurban eve ( religous festivals), officers salutes the units and they go namaz with soldiers.

Every military facility has mescit inside and it is free to go off course.

In ramazans, dinner times have being arranged according to sahur and iftar.

In which world do you live ? This army allways respected religion and lives religion, but not as an iranic or el kaide way. In its own way. It is nothing related with this government but because of internet and cell phones we see it more than past.

You shall not fall to the politic lies.

Stand behind your army .

Ancient morals and traditions that are irrelevant in this age. Shouting (unless you are Dragonborn ...... get it?) wont win wars(might be good for morale though), nor wil some books with old writings on our ship. Goddamn i am gonna get so much hate replies for saying this.

But just as my signitures suggest, i wouldnt care. The fact remains that Turkey, and the Army for that mather, should remain seculair, or we will cease to be a role model for democracy throughout the muslim world.

 

[telkon]

I think the slightest Ottoman tradition or religion intermingling in the army is immediately seen as a threat to the nation, which is wrong as the democratic and secular countries we have taken as examples of themselves also openly refer to their traditions or religion (as @Hakan posted)

it's seen as a threat because there are crazies in turkish government who want to change the society according to their own religious needs and desires. and that's absent in countries that hakan posted. these countries are truly secular, for they have religious officers for every religion represented in the army (if there's a request), not only christianity as hakan wants to show.

 

[usernameless]

it's seen as a threat because there are crazies in turkish government who want to change the society according to their own religious needs and desires. and that's absent in countries that hakan posted. these countries are truly secular, for they have religious officers for every religion represented in the army (if there's a request), not only christianity as hakan wants to show.

if they can bring in religions into the army, then they are also not secular? what they are is tolerant for other religions.
anyway, i don't care about religion, but i do care about traditions like the mehter band and the marches being well preserved by the army (edit out religious terms if necessary or whatever). i don't get why we should forsake these, though i can understand if people don't prefer it due religion or link with Ottomans. it's personal choice.

 

[Nefer]

it's seen as a threat because there are crazies in turkish government who want to change the society according to their own religious needs and desires. and that's absent in countries that hakan posted. these countries are truly secular, for they have religious officers for every religion represented in the army (if there's a request), not only christianity as hakan wants to show.

None of those countries are truly secular, the only true secular nation I know of is the CCCP.
The people who are raised in those so called secular states have raised their children according to Christian values and morals, Their propaganda to dislike Muslims and see themselves distant from them. Even if they aren't exercising religion they are living by its morals.

And you are talking like this government is the only government which is trying to change society. Every Government since the founding of The Turkish Republic have meddled with the publics private affairs according to their life views.

The Turkish people are half awake and half asleep the time works in the favor of those awake, Islam won't be hold high as a specification but Islam shall be understood and lived by everyone and not be used as a tool.

 

[telkon]

if they can bring in religions into the army, then they are also not secular? what they are is tolerant for other religions.
anyway, i don't care about religion, but i do care about traditions like the mehter band and the marches being well preserved by the army (edit out religious terms if necessary or whatever). i don't get why we should forsake these, though i can understand if people don't prefer it due religion or link with Ottomans. it's personal choice.

secular in the meaning "of equal distance to every religion". mehter is good, but it should stay as it was i.e. played at celebrations by real life musicians, not soldiers shouting allah akbar during march.every turkish knows some mehter marches. and that's due to them being held as cultural heritage, not military singing them during marches.

 

[Hakan]

@telkon

Brought up a good point the fact that other religions are not represented. This is something that has been around for a while. Example: There is only a diyanet for sunni muslims afaik.

 

[Turkish_FR]

In a secular democracy you keep religion and governing separated,so religion and the army have nothing to do with each other.
However,if we become a religion(heading in that direction) based country,then shout ''Allahu Akbar'' all you want.
Btw,i dont buy it, you are not a Turkish ''sister''.

There is no such a democracy in our dictionary and we keep our religion at the forefront in every respects. If you are such disturbed by my avatar, I can change it.