Turkish police special ops cross Syrian border captured alleged bombers

[Inspector Spacetime]

first of all , the Turkish jet violated Syrian Air Space... NATO it self admitted, and NATO refused to retaliate, because it was Turkey's fault.... and about the mortar... do you really think Syria want to drag Turkey into war? F$A could have easily fired the mortar to blame the government and to drag Turkey into war...

and I don't care about Alasad... I keep repeating, I care about Syria's peace and sovereignty , and the Syrian Military is the Syrian people.... and the one who is killing civilians are F$A terrorists themselves, what will the government gain from killing innocent people? people anger? international pressure? think about... open your mind... and before you throw stones, check your glass house, and check how many Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans and others you have killed..
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/234220-syria-questions-can-not-answered.html

I don't know about NATO admitting anything. But the Turkish side's story is that the plane entered Syrian airspace, and it got shot down by the Syrian military when it entered international airspace.

The Syrian government immediately apologized and claimed that they didn't know it was a Turkish plane. Usually during air-space violations, there is a warning from the country against the plane that it needs to leave it's airspace. Turkey is claiming that Syria didn't warn the fighter jet before shooting it down.

There was mortar attacks from the Turkish side to Syria after several attacks coming from the Syrian side.

About Egypt, and Tunisia, I'm not really worried about those countries to be honest. Sure they have problems, but I'm confident that these countries will grow out of these problems in due time. Iraq is a different case though, the war in Iraq was about oil to begin with. I wish all the best to the Iraqi leadership, they have a lot of problems to solve in the country. I don't have any comment about Libya, because I don't know anything about the situation there.

The situation in Syria, in my opinion Assad leaving will solve a lot of things in the country (referring to the fighting mostly). Once the fighting stops, I'm confident the country will repair itself in due time. The biggest problem Syria will face, if Assad ends up leaving, will probably be from various armed groups. Especially if Assad get's brought down by force. If Assad leaves after a negotiation, I think there is still a chance that these groups will be problematic, but probably in a lesser way than if Assad gets brought down by force.

What will the government gain by attacking civilians?
The reason the government attacks civilian's is so they won't show support to the FSA. When a civilian sector gets attacked, they know they were attacked because the FSA are harboring in their territory. So the civilians are afraid to see the FSA in their area and want them to leave their area because they don't want another retaliatory attack by the government forces. That's the reason why so many civilians get killed with government attacks. I'm sure you will respond to this saying that it's the FSA that are behind these attacks etc, but all the reports show that it's the government behind most of the war crimes in Syria, including military strikes against civilians.

 

[Syrian Lion]

I don't know about NATO admitting anything. But the Turkish side's story is that the plane entered Syrian airspace, and it got shot down by the Syrian military when it entered international airspace.

The Syrian government immediately apologized and claimed that they didn't know it was a Turkish plane. Usually during air-space violations, there is a warning from the country against the plane that it needs to leave it's airspace. Turkey is claiming that Syria didn't warn the fighter jet before shooting it down.

There was mortar attacks from the Turkish side to Syria after several attacks coming from the Syrian side.

About Egypt, and Tunisia, I'm not really worried about those countries to be honest. Sure they have problems, but I'm confident that these countries will grow out of these problems in due time. Iraq is a different case though, the war in Iraq was about oil to begin with. I wish all the best to the Iraqi leadership, they have a lot of problems to solve in the country. I don't have any comment about Libya, because I don't know anything about the situation there.

The situation in Syria, in my opinion Assad leaving will solve a lot of things in the country (referring to the fighting mostly). Once the fighting stops, I'm confident the country will repair itself in due time. The biggest problem Syria will face, if Assad ends up leaving, will probably be from various armed groups. Especially if Assad get's brought down by force. If Assad leaves after a negotiation, I think there is still a chance that these groups will be problematic, but probably in a lesser way than if Assad gets brought down by force.

What will the government gain by attacking civilians?
The reason the government attacks civilian's is so they won't show support to the FSA. When a civilian sector gets attacked, they know they were attacked because the FSA are harboring in their territory. So the civilians are afraid to see the FSA in their area and want them to leave their area because they don't want another retaliatory attack by the government forces. That's the reason why so many civilians get killed with government attacks. I'm sure you will respond to this saying that it's the FSA that are behind these attacks etc, but all the reports show that it's the government behind most of the war crimes in Syria, including military strikes against civilians.

about the jet... Syria was under threat from many countries including Turkey, Syria had all the right to show low altitude jet especially when Syria is in state of war, and threats from Turkey.. and yes the Syrian government offer condolences not apologizes, big difference...

if Alasad leave, there will be more bloodshed...you don't know much about the current situation in Syria... Alqaeda = F$A, Jubhat Alnusra made many statements they they will kill anyone who wants democracy, secular state... there are many videos on youtube showing that...

and about the government attacking civilians, that will only cause more ANGER against the government and the army will divided because they army wont just shell their families... the Syrian army is the Syrian people...
no one wants F$A.... if F$A were really freedom fighters, then they should stay away from cities and people right? Syria has a large desert, mountains, forests, real revolutionaries will fight there not in people's houses and to use civilians as human shields then cry about it and blame the government... if F$A really cares about Syrian people, then they need to stay away from cities and civilians areas... therefore no supports F$A, because where F$A is found there is destruction... the Syrian army has all the right to fight terrorism wherever they are found.. and its international law...
I suggest you read my thread, it talks about how the Syrian army and the people, and why there is still Syrian Army...

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

about the jet... Syria was under threat from many countries including Turkey, Syria had all the right to show low altitude jet especially when Syria is in state of war, and threats from Turkey.. and yes the Syrian government offer condolences not apologizes, big difference...

if Alasad leave, there will be more bloodshed...you don't know much about the current situation in Syria... Alqaeda = F$A, Jubhat Alnusra made many statements they they will kill anyone who wants democracy, secular state... there are many videos on youtube showing that...

and about the government attacking civilians, that will only cause more ANGER against the government and the army will divided because they army wont just shell their families... the Syrian army is the Syrian people...
no one wants F$A.... if F$A were really freedom fighters, then they should stay away from cities and people right? Syria has a large desert, mountains, forests, real revolutionaries will fight there not in people's houses and to use civilians as human shields then cry about it and blame the government... if F$A really cares about Syrian people, then they need to stay away from cities and civilians areas... therefore no supports F$A, because where F$A is found there is destruction... the Syrian army has all the right to fight terrorism wherever they are found.. and its international law...
I suggest you read my thread, it talks about how the Syrian army and the people, and why there is still Syrian Army...

If the point is taking down Assad and it's government, then they need to win territory all the way to Damascus and the whereabouts of Assad. That is their objective, taking over the government. Al Nusra are branded as a terrorist group by the west, that pretty much says what the west thinks of this group.

Al Nusra's stance basically is in line with what I am saying with some rebel groups in Syria potentially becoming problematic if Assad leaves. That's why I say the potential for such a problem is smaller if the FSA and the government negotiate an end to this conflict. I think the potential for these types of groups causing problems in Syria are bigger if Assad gets brought down by force.

and about the government attacking civilians, that will only cause more ANGER against the government and the army will divided because they army wont just shell their families... the Syrian army is the Syrian people...

Don't you think that this explains why so many government soldiers and high ranking people have defected from the Syrian army?

 

[Syrian Lion]

If the point is taking down Assad and it's government, then they need to win territory all the way to Damascus and the whereabouts of Assad. That is their objective, taking over the government. Al Nusra are branded as a terrorist group by the west, that pretty much says what the west thinks of this group.

Al Nusra's stance basically is in line with what I am saying with some rebel groups in Syria potentially becoming problematic if Assad leaves. That's why I say the potential for such a problem is smaller if the FSA and the government negotiate an end to this conflict. I think the potential for these types of groups causing problems in Syria are bigger if Assad gets brought down by force.


Don't you think that this explains why so many government soldiers and high ranking people have defected from the Syrian army?

Well the Syrian government has been calling for a dialogue since month one of the conflict, however the outside opposition such as the coalition and SNC are refusing.. and no western country or even regional country supports peace.. instead they send more weapons and terrorists to encourage the fighting and bloodshed.. the only countries which support peace are Iran, Russia, and China....
outside opposition have preconditions that Alasad must leave... well if he leaves then who will they have dialogue with? and what kind of democracy are they practicing? they have been calling for democracy, but then DENY A SYRIAN CITIZEN ALASAD TO BE IN DIALOGUE? ....

and about the defectors... like I said before... they are pointless, because they defect and leave Syria... and there are no large soldiers defecting... just couple... unlike Libya where the whole army and military in Benghazi defected... and the videos you see about soldiers defecting is all fake... they are bunch of terrorists who are not in the army, and call themselves defectors.. just to make F$A look like a non-terrorist group, while in reality they are all bunch of terrorists...

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

and no western country or even regional country supports peace..

Think about that for a second. Why would a regional country not want peace in Syria? There is already enough conflict in the middle-east, the last thing any regional country wants is yet another unstable country in the region.

The weapons flow to Syria has been low, the biggest complaint of the FSA was the lack of weapons. I saw an interview with a FSA fighter that complained about weapons and munitions, and said that the way they acquired weapons and munitions was from taking over Syrian army bases and welding tubes together to throw grenades.

You can say that Russia, China and Iran are supporting peace, but the actuality is that they are supporting Assad. Assad is not synonymous to peace (which you are trying to make it out to be). If Assad leave who will they have dialogue with? If Assad leaves there is no need for dialogue. What will most likely happen will be that a temporary government gets installed until elections. Assad will most likely have to appear in front of a tribunal for war crimes, so I doubt there is much future for Assad in politics in post-Assad Syria.

The defectors aren't pointless. You gotta look at the reason for defecting, not if they are actively anti-Assad after their defections. The FSA is made up of and being led by defected soldiers, there is no point in denying this.

Assad made a huge mistake, he is the one responsible for the start of this conflict, the reason for all the foreign Jihadis going to Syria is because he made the conflict drag on for too long. He could've just left and installed a temporary government (to his own liking if he wanted to) and put himself up to be reelected during elections. But he decided to rule with force.

As far as I know, elections wasn't possible because of the Syrian constitution right? Don't you think it's suspicious that Assad decided to change to constitution to go for election after the fighting started. He was more then 10 years in power, why didn't he do it during that period? Eventually the new constitution was put into effect in February 2012, but the fighting was already heavily underway.

 

[Syrian Lion]

Think about that for a second. Why would a regional country not want peace in Syria? There is already enough conflict in the middle-east, the last thing any regional country wants is yet another unstable country in the region.

The weapons flow to Syria has been low, the biggest complaint of the FSA was the lack of weapons. I saw an interview with a FSA fighter that complained about weapons and munitions, and said that the way they acquired weapons and munitions was from taking over Syrian army bases and welding tubes together to throw grenades.

You can say that Russia, China and Iran are supporting peace, but the actuality is that they are supporting Assad. Assad is not synonymous to peace (which you are trying to make it out to be). If Assad leave who will they have dialogue with? If Assad leaves there is no need for dialogue. What will most likely happen will be that a temporary government gets installed until elections. Assad will most likely have to appear in front of a tribunal for war crimes, so I doubt there is much future for Assad in politics in post-Assad Syria.

The defectors aren't pointless. You gotta look at the reason for defecting, not if they are actively anti-Assad after their defections. The FSA is made up of and being led by defected soldiers, there is no point in denying this.

Assad made a huge mistake, he is the one responsible for the start of this conflict, the reason for all the foreign Jihadis going to Syria is because he made the conflict drag on for too long. He could've just left and installed a temporary government (to his own liking if he wanted to) and put himself up to be reelected during elections. But he decided to rule with force.

As far as I know, elections wasn't possible because of the Syrian constitution right? Don't you think it's suspicious that Assad decided to change to constitution to go for election after the fighting started. He was more then 10 years in power, why didn't he do it during that period? Eventually the new constitution was put into effect in February 2012, but the fighting was already heavily underway.

Allow me to say you have funny logic... you want Alasad to step down from the beginning just because there is opposition?? every country has opposition... so that means every day each country will have a new leader.. and other countries should arms other countries opposition?
Most M.E countries are dictatorship and mostly Turkey's and the west allies... and now you wanted Alasad to have a new constitution when he became a president? why double standard? why do you hate Syria so much? why you make everything Haram in Syria but Halal in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain? shame on you...
If Alasad leave there will be bloodshed in Syria and at least 30% of Syria's populations will be destroyed...
Foriegn fighters are Turkey's fault for opening camps in Turkey to train them, same in Jordan... and you can't deny there are no camps in Turkey to train Terrorists.. Turkish government work very closely with Jubhat AlNusra..
About weapons.... 10 TONS of weapons enter Syria on weekly basis, those weapons are paid by the GCC, transported to Turkey and then into Syria...
Again reginal governments are puppets and they work to please Israel... Unstable Syria means safe Israel... because the resistance axis of Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah will be cut, therefore Israel will not have to worry about anymore, since there is no resistance line anymore, but they will fail... Syria is the last Arab Stronghold and we will stand against terrorism, and stop the erDOGan dream of becoming a new emperor of M.E...

about the defectors... again they are pointless... can you tell me what the traitor PM Ryad Hijab is doing now? Manaf Tlass? they are all outside Syria, playing no role...

and your living a fancy, thinking there is such thing as democracy... wake up man.... did you see democracy in Iraq? Libya? Afghanistan ? or wherever the west is involved?

 

[Oublious]

The biggest bs of this forum resist against israel! You secterians supported amercans to invade iraq and afganistan and now talking about against israel. Let me tel you something. America is israel so why did you shia secterians helped americans?

Saddam was a big threat to israel and attacked israel really and not like iran talking a lot.

So dont talk bulllshit here please.


ahahahaha the fal of assad is the fal of resist against israel.

Look what a former hizbullat general says about hizbullat.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Allow me to say you have funny logic... you want Alasad to step down from the beginning just because there is opposition?? every country has opposition... so that means every day each country will have a new leader.. and other countries should arms other countries opposition?

Is this a reply to me? If so, then you should re-read my posts and understand it better. I never said Assad should step down because there was opposition. I said Assad should've and should step down to avoid further bloodshed. But instead he chose for bloodshed by firing on the protesters. As you know, the conflict escalated from there. And I said he could've stepped down, and put himself up for re-election. According to you, Assad got most of the public's support, so it wouldn't be a problem for him to get re-elected right?

Most M.E countries are dictatorship and mostly Turkey's and the west allies... and now you wanted Alasad to have a new constitution when he became a president? why double standard? why do you hate Syria so much? why you make everything Haram in Syria but Halal in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain? shame on you...
If Alasad leave there will be bloodshed in Syria and at least 30% of Syria's populations will be destroyed...
Foriegn fighters are Turkey's fault for opening camps in Turkey to train them, same in Jordan... and you can't deny there are no camps in Turkey to train Terrorists.. Turkish government work very closely with Jubhat AlNusra..
About weapons.... 10 TONS of weapons enter Syria on weekly basis, those weapons are paid by the GCC, transported to Turkey and then into Syria...
Again reginal governments are puppets and they work to please Israel... Unstable Syria means safe Israel... because the resistance axis of Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah will be cut, therefore Israel will not have to worry about anymore, since there is no resistance line anymore, but they will fail... Syria is the last Arab Stronghold and we will stand against terrorism, and stop the erDOGan dream of becoming a new emperor of M.E...

If a certain country has a dictator for a leader, that doesn't mean other countries won't and can't have relations with that particular country. Every country would try to make the best of it, no matter who the leader is. You got to understand that politics are fickle, leaders come and go. Leader A might want good relations with country Z, and leader A's predecessor Leader B might be the exact opposite.

The Syrian's apparently wanted a new constitution. After the conflict started, Assad wised up and changed the constitution, but it was too late, because the fighting was well under way (almost a year). And after reading this, my reaction would be to question why Assad didn't make this change during his 10 years in power? Why after the fighting had started. According to you, Assad wants elections, but the constitution didn't let him. So a change in the constitution was needed. Why did he wait with this change until after the fighting started? His motive's don't seem to be pure to be honest.

I am not trying to make out anything Halal or Haram. And I don't hate Syria at all. Those are your words. I wish Syria peace, prosperity and all the best. I am just trying my best to give my opinion and explain where I base my opinion on. Are you trying to discredit me with words like that, just because I have a different opinion than you?

Syria has been claiming that weapons flow to the country is going on for long, I'm sure there was some weapons flow, but not enough to satisfy FSA rebels. And I'm pretty sure that Assad exaggerates information such as this to sway opinion to his side. However, I'm sure the weapons flow to the FSA will pick up the pace since Kerry said something about supplying them with weapons.

about the defectors... again they are pointless... can you tell me what the traitor PM Ryad Hijab is doing now? Manaf Tlass? they are all outside Syria, playing no role...

Why does that matter? The point is they defected and what's relevant is the reason why they defected. And like I said before, FSA is being led by soldiers that defected and consists of a lot of soldiers that defected.

and your living a fancy, thinking there is such thing as democracy... wake up man.... did you see democracy in Iraq? Libya? Afghanistan ? or wherever the west is involved?

I don't remember saying anything about democracy. But since I'm at it, Afghanistan and Iraq are democratic countries (the people elect their politicians). The reason these countries are unstable is because of various armed groups in it's borders. I don't have any comment on Libya because I don't know anything about the country.

@Syrian Lion, it seems we are just repeating ourselves when it comes to this issue. I might not respond next time around, not sure (depends on how you reply or if you reply).

 

[Syrian Lion]

Is this a reply to me? If so, then you should re-read my posts and understand it better. I never said Assad should step down because there was opposition. I said Assad should've and should step down to avoid further bloodshed. But instead he chose for bloodshed by firing on the protesters. As you know, the conflict escalated from there. And I said he could've stepped down, and put himself up for re-election. According to you, Assad got most of the public's support, so it wouldn't be a problem for him to get re-elected right?


If a certain country has a dictator for a leader, that doesn't mean other countries won't and can't have relations with that particular country. Every country would try to make the best of it, no matter who the leader is. You got to understand that politics are fickle, leaders come and go. Leader A might want good relations with country Z, and leader A's predecessor Leader B might be the exact opposite.

The Syrian's apparently wanted a new constitution. After the conflict started, Assad wised up and changed the constitution, but it was too late, because the fighting was well under way (almost a year). And after reading this, my reaction would be to question why Assad didn't make this change during his 10 years in power? Why after the fighting had started. According to you, Assad wants elections, but the constitution didn't let him. So a change in the constitution was needed. Why did he wait with this change until after the fighting started? His motive's don't seem to be pure to be honest.

I am not trying to make out anything Halal or Haram. And I don't hate Syria at all. Those are your words. I wish Syria peace, prosperity and all the best. I am just trying my best to give my opinion and explain where I base my opinion on. Are you trying to discredit me with words like that, just because I have a different opinion than you?

Syria has been claiming that weapons flow to the country is going on for long, I'm sure there was some weapons flow, but not enough to satisfy FSA rebels. And I'm pretty sure that Assad exaggerates information such as this to sway opinion to his side. However, I'm sure the weapons flow to the FSA will pick up the pace since Kerry said something about supplying them with weapons.


Why does that matter? The point is they defected and what's relevant is the reason why they defected. And like I said before, FSA is being led by soldiers that defected and consists of a lot of soldiers that defected.


I don't remember saying anything about democracy. But since I'm at it, Afghanistan and Iraq are democratic countries (the people elect their politicians). The reason these countries are unstable is because of various armed groups in it's borders. I don't have any comment on Libya because I don't know anything about the country.

@<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=136977" target="_blank">Syrian Lion</a></u>, it seems we are just repeating ourselves when it comes to this issue. I might not respond next time around, not sure (depends on how you reply or if you reply).

okay Alasad has been calling for elections for over a year... why does the west and the opposition refuse? what do they fear? if they claim he has no support, then let there be elections... correct?
everything you say is about Alasad... man I do not give a crap about Alasad... All I care about is Syria, Syria's peace and sovereignty, and I know under Alasad leadership that will only be possible, at least for now... and you are right we are just repeating ourselves... the problem is that you refuse to accept the facts....

anyways, just to let you know there was no such thing as peaceful protests in Syria.. enjoy this video..

 

[Hack-Hook]

The biggest bs of this forum resist against israel! You secterians supported amercans to invade iraq and afganistan and now talking about against israel. Let me tel you something. America is israel so why did you shia secterians helped americans?

Saddam was a big threat to israel and attacked israel really and not like iran talking a lot.

So dont talk bulllshit here please.

If Shia Supported USA attack on Iraq and Afghanistan then why USA and it Allies did it through Sunni controlled land and Air space not Shia controlled one ?

 

[Neptune]

If Shia Supported USA attack on Iraq and Afghanistan then why USA and it Allies did it through Sunni controlled land and Air space not Shia controlled one ?

I don't know but this one can be possible

Sunni=Turkey=NATO
Shia=Iraq and the other

 

[Hack-Hook]

I don't know but this one can be possible

Sunni=Turkey=NATO
Shia=Iraq and the other

well USA and their allies also used some of GCC countries and they were not NATO.

by the way at the time Iraq was Rulled by a Sunni government not a Shia one .

 

[Oublious]

If Shia Supported USA attack on Iraq and Afghanistan then why USA and it Allies did it through Sunni controlled land and Air space not Shia controlled one ?

Another stupid comparison. Things like this wont help you. Look what your moderator write.

Yes, cooperating on fighting terrorism in both countries, you have problem with that?

We did help U.S to fight Al-Qaeda in Iraq who wanted to hijack the Iraq's leadership in its instability peak.Same as Afghanistan, we did help U.S fighting Taliban.Because it served OUR interests.But they didn't pay back very well though.

One of examples, you should read, it's interesting:

2001 uprising in Herat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you are supporting Taliban and Al-Qaeda?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...es-protest-recent-shia-killings-pakistan.html


I make a printsqreen so you dont erase it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Another stupid comparison. Things like this wont help you. Look what your moderator write.

Yes, cooperating on fighting terrorism in both countries, you have problem with that?

We did help U.S to fight Al-Qaeda in Iraq who wanted to hijack the Iraq's leadership in its instability peak.Same as Afghanistan, we did help U.S fighting Taliban.Because it served OUR interests.But they didn't pay back very well though.

One of examples, you should read, it's interesting:

2001 uprising in Herat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you are supporting Taliban and Al-Qaeda?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...es-protest-recent-shia-killings-pakistan.html


I make a printsqreen so you dont erase it.

what you don't get is that we always supported northern alliance ,even when Alqaeda and Taliban were US chums

by the way look at your link and see what person we supported

The uprising was met with celebratory gunfire from residents. Iranian media even went as far as to report widespread celebration including &#8216;dancing on the rooftops&#8217; and honking car horns.[9] Ismail Khan consolidated his power as Amir of western Afghanistan, reportedly accepting truck loads of money from Iran over the following month to secure loyalty of his forces.[10] Khan granted amnesty for former Taliban fighters, but warned of repercussions if said fighters were to take up arms once again.[11]

Khan remained governor of Herat until 2004, when he was dismissed by Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Khan's dismissal was met with violent protests.[12]

you see now tell me which of the persons you supported ever thought of putting hatred and revenge aside and try to made a peaceful society for everyone from every ethnic group no mater what their religious and political beliefs are .

and don't forget how people of Harat liked him that they went to street for protest when several years latter he was dismissed

Nevertheless, he remains a popular figure for some in Afghanistan. Unlike other mujahideen commanders, Khan has not been linked to large-scale massacres and atrocities such as those committed after the capture of Kabul in 1992.[2] Moreover, during his Governorship, Herat province has enjoyed relative peace and prosperity, with Khan using the money drawn from customs revenues to repair much of the damage done by the Taliban. Following news of his dismissal, rioting broke out in the streets of Herat, and President Karzai had to ask him to make a personal appeal for calm.[13]

in short it was US force who decided to cooperate with us in this matter not other way around .

and the fact remain that it was Sunni countries who helped NATO attack Iraq , Libya and Afghanistan and opened their land and Airspace for them not us and by doing so let Alqaeda and terrorist group enter Iraq and Libya