Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

[OldTwilight]

Helo!
How many iranian general die in Syria ?4-6?

As many as needed to secure our national security .

Just lower your exceptions and it will help you to face the reality ...

Our military budget is low , so our generals have to go in first line directly and put their live on the line , and Your military budget is not as much as ksa and USA , so you don't have luxury of 24/7 air force support and surveillance ...

You can act like USA military but it will consume your budget and make economic problems for you ....

This the reality , that even forced Russians to use free fall bomb with su-34 instead of smart bombs .

 

[Arabian Ottoman]

As many as needed to secure our national security .

Just lower your exceptions and it will help you to face the reality ...

Our military budget is low , so our generals have to go in first line directly and put their live on the line , and Your military budget is not as much as ksa and USA , so you don't have luxury of 24/7 air force support and surveillance ...

You can act like USA military but it will consume your budget and make economic problems for you ....

This the reality , that even forced Russians to use free fall bomb with su-34 instead of smart bombs .

low military budget = sending generals to the front line? sounds pretty militia mentality to me. something Iran is

known for. I can imagine Iranian generals will start watching Netflix at their homes if Iran had high military budget.

you have no idea how much Turkey invested in the defense sector.

 

[OldTwilight]

low military budget = sending generals to the front line? sounds pretty militia mentality to me. something Iran is

known for. I can imagine Iranian generals will start watching Netflix at their homes if Iran had high military budget.

you have no idea how much Turkey invested in the defense sector.

Not more than Iran ....
Just look at per hour cost of f16 flight and then look at price of smart bombs and guided missiles to understand why you can't act like USA ...

Whatever , go and kill ISIS and YPG members , by killing every single of them , you just reduce one of long term problem ...

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Air forces can prevent some of ATGM atacks but also We need human detect radar, vtol uav and more snipers to detect and neturalize targets... also we have laser warning system, advanced camuflage, anti thermal paints and more.

Laser warning system

as we see before when our Tank hit by ATGM, other thanks dont send any smoke,i dont understand that our army not prepared for this ATGM threat. There are many things to say about it.


-----------------
Cerablus people who get back their homes thanks Turkey

 

[Aero]

That totally depends on where the tank is hit. I'm sure leopard will do much better than junk m60's but even the most latest tank without APS can be destroyed by very advanced and powerful atgm.

However in advanced tanks like Leopard 2/T-90/Merkava-IV crew will survive even if tanks is destroyed,that is what matter in fact as tanks can be replaced.

A man with an atgm hiding somewhere fires it and then quickly runs somewhere else. The distance is also over a few km. That is not such a short distance.

However if a number of armed drones in area searching targets he will get a FREE A2G missile delivered to him when he will try to run.

The biggest problem is the tanks. I doubt m60 tanks have much protection against these atgm's, there armours are weak.

M60 Sabra of Turkish army have, is much better protected than original M60. M60 is a 2nd generation tank like T72 so we can see how they both fair against ATGMs.

PS: I never said there will be zero casualties but if TAF and Army shows better planned and coordinated attacks losses will be be very less.

 

[Baybars Han]

ATGM for over 90% are from SAA/FSA stockpiles and FSA when they used to share arms right until 2013. Iraq only acquired ATGW (Kornet-E) from Russia after 2012, small numbers.



People of nations with armies that aren't actively fighting a large war easily claim how skilled they are right until they go to war with a force that isn't rag tag (such as IS), then it turns out they aren't that special. That's the case here which some people are not able to accept with all their pride.

There is no force than can fully stop atgm attacks. This isnt about being skilled. Being skilled in this instance is organisation and strategy for us in this case( organising, where to attack etc). This is about equipment. I think around 4-5 tanks have been hit so far and 2 of them we had casualties. Most of the tanks on the battlefield are old m60 tanks with hardly much leopard or upgraded m60 which im sure isnt too much different. I'm sure if we was had better armoured tanks there would be hardly any casualties.

 

[Timur]

Maybe they will give the M113's to FSA.

never.. you wanna keep the status of one big nato troop so we dont give it away just for pride of old weapons..

I didn't say we cant use, i said we don't use, the reason may be we don't want to use but result is same

no we arn't allowed to it against pkk.. germans will just cut their support

I think we lost 3 M60-T so far. I cannot understand how we cant determine enemy ATGM team that 200m away from tank. Really? No consistent UAV missions next to tanks, no optical watching systems, we use nothing. Just put some tanks on the hill for enemy to blow up!

as I said it earlier if we had IR sight they would glow like the moon in the dark.. easy to detect them..

we have many things on paper but the real world differs.. or we have someone who is stupidly giving commands to our military wich would do it another way..

Air forces can prevent some of ATGM atacks but also We need human detect radar, vtol uav and more snipers to detect and neturalize targets... also we have laser warning system, advanced camuflage, anti thermal paints and more.

again we have some things but why arn't we using it? maybe we dont have much or nothing ready..

but also losing an old tank is nothing and humans we have plenty of them.. so its just nothing big in front of someone who calculates with money..

my view is we arn'T really envolved just some turks with helpers wich dont have real equipment and training..

as long as we dont send there some real thousands of our soildiers it will be like this.. you need real military there not just some old tanks and many firtina..

and if we send leo a4 there the result will be the same , no coverage no real footman around the tank no search teams no security.. at least akkor would be good to reduce the risk of atgm..

 

[Baybars Han]

So I couldnt get a full answer to this. If someone knows please answer. Is Armed Bayraktar fully active and if not when will it be operational. I know the normal one is operational but I mean the armed one. 2. When will armed ANKA be available its taking so long now.

Also overall how much UAV do we have in our inventory.

never.. you wanna keep the status of one big nato troop so we dont give it away just for pride of old weapons..




as long as we dont send there some real thousands of our soildiers it will be like this.. you need real military there not just some old tanks and many firtina..

and if we send leo a4 there the result will be the same , no coverage no real footman around the tank no search teams no security.. at least akkor would be good to reduce the risk of atgm..

Come on. dont be stupid. If we send soldiers we will get more casualties. FSA is there in the ground.

Cant we put ERA as a retro fit to these m60, just for extra protection. We have over 900 m60 as far as I could see. These are unnecessary maintanence and cost aswell. We still have cold war mentality commanders and non military knowledged people in the army and defence ministers. I bet I know much more than them about alot of things. Instead of having 5000 tanks, 4000 of these junk tanks, we could just have 2000 modern tanks and 30-40 more fighters. Instead of having 3000+ old m113, have 800 tulpar, 800 pars etc. Im sure you understand what I mean. More is not always better.

 

[usernameless]

People of nations with armies that aren't actively fighting a large war easily claim how skilled they are right until they go to war with a force that isn't rag tag (such as IS), then it turns out they aren't that special. That's the case here which some people are not able to accept with all their pride.

While you have a point about some of those folks here, we should not exaggerate and make the whole army look bad based on a few tanks casualties because of some negligence/mistakes by the Turkish army decision-maker in Syria.

 

[Baybars Han]

Savran, Ziyadiye, Dabik felan alinacakmi? Oraya guzel kalin bir savunma tampon hatti yapmis oluruz.

 

[Penguin]

Its not,only supporting role,thats why no ''back up'' by helicopters/drones and fighter jets.
If they did this to play an active role using the tank losses,its a stupid reasoning and they just dont care for the soldiers lives.

"You almost never see a Syrian tank burn out like that from a turret hit any more, i feel like the Syrians learned not to store rounds in the storage compartment in the turret bc of the dangers posed by ATGMs. Turkey might need to take a lesson from them."

Does his opinion have any legitimacy?

@Penguin ?

Ammunition stowage early M-60

Ammunition stowage early M60A1

The M60T (M60A3 with Sabra based upgrade package) has a 120mm smoothbore gun. Ammo for the 120mm is fatter and longer than 105mm ammo (i.e. fewer rounds). M60A3 has essentially the same base turret as M60A1, so ammo in the turret rear.


Russian T-72 tanks (and variants) as used by/in Syria have a 125mm cannon with autoloader. It would be hard to not have ammo under/in the turret.

 

[u.MP]

Savran, Ziyadiye, Dabik felan alinacakmi? Oraya guzel kalin bir savunma tampon hatti yapmis oluruz.

IMO Minaq/Minaq airport, Tal Rifat and Kafr Naya (near Goverment held Nubl) should be retaken from YPG.

But yes also Savran, Dabiq etc. but ISIS probably wont run from there since its fortified positions.

 

[Penguin]

T-62

The T-62 can carry a total of 40 rounds of ammunition. The two sets of front hull stowage racks (both double as conformal fuel tanks) hold 8 rounds each, for a total of 16 rounds of ammunition. Another 20 rounds are stowed in the very back of the hull on the partition between the engine compartment and the fighting compartment. The loader has 2 rounds in a ready rack on the turret wall directly behind him for convenient loading, and another round secured by tension latches in a rack near his feet on the floor of the hull side wall. There is another round stowed in the same way near the commander's feet.

"in the storage compartment in the turret"

I don't quite see how that would work here: all ammo storage is accessible from the turret compartment. I see only 2 rounds in the turret basket area. I suspect it is very similar in T-54/55

 

[u.MP]

Ammunition stowage early M-60

Ammunition stowage early M60A1

The M60T (M60A3 with Sabra based upgrade package) has a 120mm smoothbore gun. Ammo for the 120mm is fatter and longer than 105mm ammo (i.e. fewer rounds). M60A3 has essentially the same base turret as M60A1, so ammo in the turret rear.


Russian T-72 tanks (and variants) as used by/in Syria have a 125mm cannon with autoloader. It would be hard to not have ammo under/in the turret.

T72 are known to lose turrets because of this

 

[KediKesenFare3]

You guys are totally overexaggerating our lost. Off course, it makes me sad seeing Turkish soldiers dying but you have to stay rational and objective.

This is what we already achieved in only two weeks:

For instance, Iranians lost most likely more than 1000 members of the Iranian Army + affiliated militias in Syria and they couldn't do anything without Russian support against DAESH or FSA.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...troops-killed-in-syria-to-preserve-bashar-al/

So far, we are doing a great job in Syria.