Turkish Naval Programs

[SİLAHDAR]

so basically we have

Frigates
4 x Ada Class 2,400 tons
1 x Ada Class Hull test and training ship
4 x I Class with 3,000 tons

OPV
how many x OPV 1,900 tons planed?
how many x OPV 2,100 tons planned?

Destroyers
4-6 x TF2000 DDG at over 7,000+ tons?

Submarines
6 x MILDEM Class called TS1700?

Bro Milden and Ts-1700 is a diffrent projects.

Ts-1700 :

Ts-1700 is a simple Turkish Type-214. Same class But local made one. Last time I remembered we are producing our type-214's %80 local made. Behind the idea of stm ts-1700 gaining itar free producing and exporting advanced aip subs.

Makeing Type-214 like sub is not a poor thing. Type 214 can easily reach usa and return without any additional supply just in 25 days for arrive and 25 days for return. Also with help of his aip capability he can pass all mediterranien underwater without snorkeling. So they need just 3 times surfaceing for reaching usa and most of hims in ocean. Also with help of his electric engines it's hard to find when compared to ssbn or ssn's. Also he have a 3 months endurance on waters.

On the other hand ts-1700's will have integraded two type torpedo countermeasures who named zargana and also integrated anti torpedo torpedo tork. By the way he can be carry 8x torpedo + 8x (atmaca ssm or land attack, gezgin, idas) when compared type 209's 8x torpedo + 4x (atmaca ssm or land attack, gezgin) capabilities.

And last one thing. Currently our old type 209 subs will sail generally 40 around crew. But this new subs (type 214/ ts-1700) more advanced more autonoums so they need less crew like 22 aroun almost 3/2. So thats when a merge with new advanced small sized subsytems behalf of old bigger ones , that will gives to crew more live space , and 1 bed for 1 crew and last one more shower and wc for per crew.

Look our most modern type 209 subs , pipes, valves indicator everywhere + very tight holes and rooms + 2 restroom + 1 bathroom for 40 crew.

And thats the 10 years old portugal type-214 al the way better inside than type-209's

Milden:

Milden is a diffrent story. We are work on concept todays. Currently we know Milden 2017 concept. But I believe with my all heart that specs will change. Just because thats sub designed for the min 2013-2015 perspecteive but many things will changed in 5-7 years and more than will change until first milden be operational.

But if we evaluate milden-2017 concept, we are see x rudder diffrent nose any many conceptual diffrences when compared Ts-1700/Type-214. I liked him, Currently in this design doesnt see vls for ssm and cruise missile. Looks like Milden-2017 will use torpedo tube launched missiles like a olds.

Bigger diffrences of milden-2017 on the performance. I'm not waiting increaseing the range, Just because 19000 km around is a standart for aip. Yeah shortfin barracuda have more range than but that is the diffrent story. So generally all new aip subs dont want to increase range they are generally want a max speed for a 19000 km max range. I mean main diffrences of milden and ts-1700 one of them will reach 19000 km with 4-6 knot other one ise 8-10 knot. And also one of them must need snorkeling every 2500 km other one 5000 km around. Just because thats related its size whit help of his extra 10 meter lenght they will have more bigger power puck and also bigger or more numbered aip modules . And also Milden will be have more torpedo and missile storage thand type-214 and ts-1700 +4 torpedo and missile I'm think. (total 20 )

That's the specs of three concept ;

I dont know we are make a Ts-1700 for us but looks like we will produce 6x milden also we will have 6x type 214. İn a 1 year ago I heard many rumors about we will not decommision any subs behalf of type 209 for enlargement of fleet and for a east-med politics. And I hope we are enlarge our fleet size to 18 . 6x Milden Long range Nuclear Cruise Missile Strike Aip + 6x Type 2014 Fleet Strike Aip and 6x Ts-1700 Fleet Strike Aip. I think we will produce 6x ts-1700 2018-2023.

But like I say before Milden design and specs will change. Just because if you need a 166 metered 7000+ (min 10000 tonnes for me) Heavy Destroyer/Small Cruiser Tf-2000 , also we work on gezgin kind nuclear, bio, chemical warhead capable cruise missile also regional gps, mrbm-icbm's and his subsystems, slv's and also aircraft carriers Milden 2017 doesnt efficent for escorting that kind of naval groups and carrying that kind of naval weaponary in longer ranges.

I'm not meaning we will make a ssbn's but 'm waiting to mildens design will increase the lenght + add a vls + 20 knot-19000 km range capacity and 4 months endurance like a Long range aips like type 216's , Shortfin Barracuda, A-26 Ocean Er etc.

Hdw Type 216 ;

Shortfin Barracuda ;

A-26 Ocean ER

 

[Lozengrad]

 

[aziqbal]

so the 6 x Reis Class are called TS1700? so just another name for them

so basically

the MILDEN programme is the follow on from the Reis programme

I read that the first submarine was launched in Dec 2019

with the welding of the 5th happening at the same ceremony

which pretty much means the 6th should start construction soon and construction Is taking 4 years

so we can expect all 6 x Reis class to be in the water by 2025

MILDEN needs to be brought forward by 5 years preferably before 2030

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Bro all of us woory about many things on our navy. Biggest 2 problem of our surface fleet is ;

1- Frigates old age's
2- Lack Of Air Defence Frigate.

1- Frigates old age :

G- class age is around 37-39, Yavuz class 31-33 years old. We need 12 brand new ship just in 10 year for retain our navy up to date and strong.

2- Lack Of Air Defence Frigate : Whe want have not any tf-2000 before than 2026-2028. But we need immidietly him just because east-med is warm and there is very big air launched anti-ship missile danger in here to our fleets.

But we cant build more ships like that. Due shipyard problems, workforce problems, economical problems. Etc.
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But we can organize our fleet very smartly. With help of just one type missile.

How ?

All of yours know that we have ships who carry vls but their numbers doesnt enough for to be air defence frigate. And also Thanks Allah our ships carry tactical lenght 6.8 mt quadpack capable vls tubes ;

So we need 6.8 metered but max 260mm diametered long range air defence missile. And we have not much time for new missile. So for this reason missile could be 2 staged boostered missile just because our aa or sam missile ranges lower than 100-120 km. Using for first core missile section there are two options ; one of them Gökdoğan bvr and G-40 sam.

G-40 still in development but Gökdoğan very close to finish his test. On the other hand G-40 would be heavier than gökdoğan. So we can use gökdoğan bvr.

Gökdoğan : 65 km range ( big probaply more), lenght 3-3.5, Weight 100-110 kg around (same range capable mica rf weight is 112 kg)

There are three option for booster section ;

Trg-230 rocket section : they carry 100 kg around (warhead + guidance and subsystems) to 35 km range and 20 km altitude and they freefall another 35 km to target. Total Missile Lenght : x Speed : Mach 4.2
Sage-230 rocket section : they carry 83 kg around (warhead + guidance and subsystems) to 50 km range and 25 km altitude and they freefall another 50 km to target. Total Missile Lenght : 4.1m Speed : Mach 4.2
Sage-260 rocket section : they carry 83 kg around (warhead + guidance and subsystems) to 80 km range and 40 km altitude and they freefall another 80 km to target. Total Missile Lenght : 4.8m Speed : Mach 4.2+

İn a bad condition we use him with trg-230 booster ; booster reach him 20 km alttitude and 35 km range with mach 4 speed class, after that he can deattach the booster and contiune the way with another min 65 km with his own engine in total 100 km range.

But

All of us know possible attackers rafale, f-16, mirages, ef, su-27's etc. doesnt reach more than 15 km alttitude when they are loaded with weapons etc. So if we organize hims flight profile to max 15 km alltitude big probaply missile will reach to 110-120 km range. 3.5 meter + 2.-2.5 meter booster total 5-6 meter lenght. We can hit from 120 km aircrafts who carrier of possible air launched exoceet, harpoon and kh-35 and kh-31 active radar seekered anti ship missiles.

---------------------------------

Just if we achieve this we can deploy 32x from this missile to our 4 genesis-smart-s and vls modded gabya's to hims 8x vls's. And him can carry 32x sm-1 for mid range engagements and also him have phalanx. His 250 km ranged smart-s mk2 radar enough for run that kind of missiles. Aster-30 loaded freem-aaw versions run aster-30 with a herakles radar who same capable radar with smart-s mk2 . But maybe we must be change fire control radar with aselsan akr-d for midcourse guide but that is a not important thing.

So we have 4 aaw frigate (32x siper blok1 and 32x sm-1 ) with this move. Without any modernization.

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Also we can complete to barbaros modernization program and gain 4 modern asuw frigate. I dont prefered Barbaros for aaw role just because stabilization problems of his vls's overload.

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On the other hand, still we need a asuw frigates for replacement. For this reason we need to convert our milgems. Jus because our milgems heaviear for corvette and his range and capablities enough for mediterranian frigate. He can be capable make a operation on aden strait. But he need a medium range air defence missile for againts penguin and sea skua launcher carrier helicopters and destroy anti ships from long distance.

There is a very good space for 16x quadpack launcher in the front of the milgem. Yeah maybe mk-41 vls doesnt fit here, half of him must burry into hull but we dont know what they are. But for cold launch launcher we can set his tube sizes freely and we dont need burry him to hull we can setup his to front freeley. 16x cold launcher for g-40 or hisar-0 rf+ can fit to front easily. Just think only square on the floor of one missile. 16x can fit.

Like britishs did in type-23's ;

And 16x sam could be enough for ships self defence with ram.

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And last one , we need 4x new 70-80 metered Anti-Submarine Corvette the behalf of milgems . Just because we changed his roles. Dearsan Turkmen class corvettes very good for this role. Their unit cost will be nothing more than 200m dollar total 800m dolar (not more than 1x tf-2000). Big advantage of him we can build 4x for him just with our small shipyard dearsan, rmk marine, and maybe yonca onuk.

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So build plan of main surface vessels until 2026-2028

İstanbul Shipyard : 1x Tf-2000, 4x Milgem sam modernization, 4x Barbaros Mlu Modernization.
3 Shipyard firms of Tais : serial production of 3x istanbul class.
Dearsan, Rmk Marine, Yonca Onuk : 4x Turkmen Class Anti submarine corvette.

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Fleet Sizes :

2021-2022
4x Main Modern Fleet :

4x Quadpack Siper Capable Gabya AAW
8x Meko ASW
4x Milgem Anti Submarine Warfare

Support Fleet :
4x Genesis gabya aaw/asuw
6x burak class asw

2025-2026:

Main Fleet :

4x İstanbul Class AAW ( with s band version of çafrad çfr - he can also carry 32x quadpack siper + 32x g-40 in his 16x vls)
4x Barbaros Mlu ASUW
4x Milgem Vls ASUW
4x Turkmen Class ASW

Support Fleet :
4x Gabya (Until they sink)
4x Meko (Until they sink)

2028+

7x TD-2000 AAW
10x İstanbul ASUW
4x Milgem Vls ASUW
7x Turkmen Class ASW
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2022-2023 Fleet will gives us a breathe and 2025-2026 can give us regional control.

 

[Kamil_baku]

we need 4x new 70-80 metered Anti-Submarine Corvette the behalf of milgems . Just because we changed his roles. Dearsan Turkmen class corvettes very good for this role. Their unit cost will be nothing more than 200m dollar total 800m dolar (not more than 1x tf-2000). Big advantage of him we can build 4x for him just with our small shipyard dearsan, rmk marine, and maybe yonca onuk.

in Caspian sea(lake) there is no submarine threat, thats why its that small, when there is submarine threat, you basially build Istanbul klass 3000ton

You also need some additional space to upgrade un the future in case of need..

 

[monitor]

Meltem-3 Projesi kapsamında, Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı envanterine alınması planlanan 6 adet deniz karakol uçağının kabul faaliyetlerine başlandı. #MSB #TSK #DzKK
Translated from Turkish by
Within the scope of the Meltem-3 Project, the acceptance activities of 6 marine patrol aircraft, which are planned to be included in the inventory of the Naval Forces Command, started.

 

[Balamir]

The design of MİLDEN national submarine is completed in 2023.

 

[aziqbal]

so I hear that G-class frigate has been providing air cover over the coast of Libya

it was in AFM this months issue

and the Frigate has shot down quite a few Chinese drones operated by the UAE

its been sweeping up and down the coast doing area air defence

apparently Libya is the largest drone war ind the world

 

[gmres]

so the 6 x Reis Class are called TS1700? so just another name for them

so basically

the MILDEN programme is the follow on from the Reis programme

I read that the first submarine was launched in Dec 2019

with the welding of the 5th happening at the same ceremony

which pretty much means the 6th should start construction soon and construction Is taking 4 years

so we can expect all 6 x Reis class to be in the water by 2025

MILDEN needs to be brought forward by 5 years preferably before 2030

TS1700 is a submarine sketched by STM, and it doesn't replace Reis Class but eyeing for future replacement of Type 209s. One might say, it is locally designed Type 209.
Delivery of Reis Class will start in 2021-2022 and 1 will be delivered each following year.

apparently Libya is the largest drone war ind the world

Suppose this fact has changed since Azerbaijan, and also proves strength of a naval asset against drones are no match to a land based AA system.

 

[Successwill]

Last member of Turkey's unmanned crafts:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321350269234487304

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321356044543643649

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321378205928988673

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321361968477986816

The version for Anti-Ship missiles:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321388086086033410

Anti-Submarine and EW versions:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321390213101477889

 

[Incog_nito]

What's the update on the frigates and destroyers design?

 

[xbat]

no problem with designs, but manufacturing is a little bit

-Localization for some subsystems take time(SAM missile and radar complex)
-hidden ambargo on some components(missiles RAM etc, gas turbine or diesels)
-military factories are busy(and lazy)
-money problems (as always)

still waiting for first ISTANBUL class to launch

 

[monitor]

Turkish I class frigate getting late again thanks to western silent embargo

MILGEM I sinifi firkateyn; ESSM, Phalanx, 76mm top, VLS, vb ithal silahlardaki acik/gizli ambargolar sebebiyle; HISAR/SUNGUR HSS fuzeleri, GOKDENIZ YHSS, 76mm top, Milli Dikey Atim Sistemi, vb milli sistemlerle donatilacak. Tum bunlar projede bazi gecikmelere sebep olacak.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TyrannosurusRex/status/1330465633369198593/photo/1

 

[ziya]

its in service after 15 years work -ATR-72 MPA

 

[ziya]

this is what naval vessels need protection from 90 degree incoming missiles or bombs from any uav