Turkish Engine Programs

[Agha Sher]

Cirit missile, Anka UAV, Milgem, Milden, Atak, Altay, TF-X...all have foreign engines. Blame Burak Bekdil as much as you can, it doesn’t change the facts.

You need synergy of Universities, R&D institutes, free Economy and Politics and maybe a huge sponsor to solve the problems.

You are being overly critical and digging hard to find negative things about the Turkish defence industry. Turkey has made undertaken great efforts in engine development and the next half a decade will show the fruits of it.

The lastest produced Anka UAVs utilises the domestic PD 170 engines, for your information.

Maybe you should apply this critical methodology to your country's own armed forces. Your Navy, Air Force and Land Forces are in a catastrophic state.

One question I always ask myself is why turkey does not simply copy the necessary engines, step by step ... we have all kinds of engines in the arsenal - so why not build every engine piece by piece to understand the principles, gain knowledge, update technologies, add them, and start producing?

Like China did in the past and still does -

Because China is a rogue state, and they can't export those products to the west or allies of the west. Turkey is an integrated part of the free world, and thus, follows the conventions and play rules of the free world. In addition, Turkey has a clear interest in exporting to the west and allies of the west, as such, the product has to be original.

Also, copying doesn't solve everything. China has tried to copy Russian jet engines for decades, but still fails to produce reliable copies.

 

[Deactivated]

You are being overly critical and digging hard to find negative things about the Turkish defence industry. Turkey has made undertaken great efforts in engine development and the next half a decade will show the fruits of it.

The lastest produced Anka UAVs utilises the domestic PD 170 engines, for your information.

Maybe you should apply this critical methodology to your country's own armed forces. Your Navy, Air Force and Land Forces are in a catastrophic state.



Because China is a rogue state, and they can't export those products to the west or allies of the west. Turkey is an integrated part of the free world, and thus, follows the conventions and play rules of the free world. In addition, Turkey has a clear interest in exporting to the west and allies of the west, as such, the product has to be original.

Also, copying doesn't solve everything. China has tried to copy Russian jet engines for decades, but still fails to produce reliable copies.

I understand that point with export, but that part with "rule of the free world" is complete nonsense to me - I will explain:
Which part of the so-called "free western world" pays attention to the rules when it comes to turkey eg Contracts - F35 - Rheinmetall etc. ... When did Turkey become an "Ally" for this "free world"?
Yes - we won't be able to overcome all of the problems - but we would learn more than now by trying to "reinvent the wheel" and we would be able to update, modernize and improve the existing engines with their technology

 

[-SINAN-]

I'm sorry that you - and some others - ALWAYS feel offended, but that does make his arguments invalid or wrong.
Therefore I can only once again refrain: So far I only got either similar replies like yours as if others simply have no faith in Turkey or we get immediately a harsh triade of insults as if we are all anti-Turkey ... but so far I never got a single argument HOW Turkey will manage to develop its projected high-end powerplants for the helicopters, UAV and most of all the TF-X within the given timeframe nor how it will overcome the technical issues?

Don't post stuff from Bokdil, 10 years ago he was saying "Turkish defense industry ruined" after 10 years he is still spouting same non-sense.

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkey doesn’t have an unlimited budget to sustain all different kind of projects simultaneously. Today, The load of ongoing 650-700 defence projets, SSB is funding, has exceeded 60 billion $. That is why we need reliable partners to keep our progress stable. Although we have great talents in this field, Engines are still our biggest hump. That’s why It was agreed that this problem will be solved with ongoing R&D and complete product programs. In the light of this decision taken in 2016-17, 2020s will be the year of mostly engines and bigger strategic missile, fighter, helicopter and ship programs.

For turbo-diesel engine group, Time will tell whether It was a good choice to select a new institute like BMC Power (The deal signed with Tümosan cancelled after Austrian government rejected tech transfer) but BMC Power was charged to develop 350hp TTZA, 600hp Azra, 1100hp Utku and 1500hp Batu engines and these engines are under the support of government. Most likely, When they got matured, The IP rights may be protected by SSB. In additions, I seriously think that BMC Power has a deep and serious unknown tech provider from the background because they are progressing really well with 1100hp powerpack project and It is known that 1100 and 1500hp powerpacks (engine+transmission) are being developed simultaneously.

Tümosan is working on turbo-diesel engines qith a scale from 150hp to 1000hp. The FNSS will deliver OMTTZA vehicles with Tümosan turbodiesel engines and That will be the first time a domestic armored vehicle will join into Armed Forces inventory with domestic engines.

In gas turbine engines, TEI is the excellence center of Turkiye. TS-1400 turboshaft engine will be delivered to TAI this year. Core turbine of TS-1400 can generate 8500-9000lb thrust at turbofan variant.
In addition, Institute is working on TS-3000 turboshaft engine. When this engine was converted into a turbofan by adding a 9-10 stage compressor and modifying the turbine inlet/exhaust section, TS-3000 turbine core will generate around 18000-19000lb thrust. This thrust ratio is almost equal to Eurojet EJ-200 engines and It will be enough to power Hürjet fighters.

Ts-1400

Turkey is progressing slowly and steadily and We will declare our independence in powerpack programs within 5-7 years.

 

[Deino]

I was talking about burak ege bekdil, how many news did you read from him?
Do you consider a man writing about turkish defence but uses always foreigners as source?

If that what he writes fits to common sense, if he asks valid questions and comes - given the sparse realistic official information - to correct conclusions, why not?

I didnt see any interview that he done with Turkish defence ministers or with other high rank defence officals.
He also has not enough knowledge about turkish defence projects and always trying to create bad perception about our projects.
It is not related with you or others, we can feel the difference between useful criticism and malice

The point is that several foreigners - including myself - are most sceptical on everything official from Turkey, from its government and its defence industry. In times when it is even forbidden to raise any critical questions, to ask, why the president's wife is obsessed to shopping of luxury goods like crocodile-leather handbags and reporters are accused of insult and maybe even convicted in court, how realistic is it then to get a realistic true information on how Turkey will develop all these high-end powerplants?

As such that You don't like certain author may be acceptable, but that still does not explains valid questions.

 

[mustafa erkan]

If that what he writes fits to common sense, if he asks valid questions and comes - given the sparse realistic official information - to correct conclusions, why not?




The point is that several foreigners - including myself - are most sceptical on everything official from Turkey, from its government and its defence industry. In times when it is even forbidden to raise any critical questions, to ask, why the president's wife is obsessed to shopping of luxury goods like crocodile-leather handbags and reporters are accused of insult and maybe even convicted in court, how realistic is it then to get a realistic true information on how Turkey will develop all these high-end powerplants?

As such that You don't like certain author may be acceptable, but that still does not explains valid questions.

You dont know much about Turkey's on-going projects and you have preconceptions. I dont waste my time to explain and also it is unnecessary because in a few years time we will see who is right about engines.

 

[Khagan1923]

You dont know much about Turkey's on-going projects and you have preconceptions. I dont waste my time to explain and also it is unnecessary because in a few years time we will see who is right about engines.

Stop communicating with him, many users wrote whole essays to him about this topic for months now he never answered them back because he doesn't care about it, he just wants to let out his shallow racism every now and then and then he will piss off again for 3 months until he needs to vent it out.

I literally confronted him 3 months ago and never got an answer instead, just like I said then, he ran away and just like I called it again he turned up months later. He will write the same shit without context over and over again with a smugness than can only originate from a low intelligence individual about a topic he doesn't even has the slightest grasps around.

Pay attention he never pays a visit or comments on topics in which the Turkish Militarly Complex shines he waits until a paid hack writes a hit piece founded on trash and then gallops on his mighty horse in here to strike down on the lowly Turks and their "fantasies" (in his mind)

Just ignore him. He isn't worth the time. As you can see all the other senior users here do the same.

 

[Deino]

You dont know much about Turkey's on-going projects and you have preconceptions. I dont waste my time to explain and also it is unnecessary because in a few years time we will see who is right about engines.

That's the same lame argument you strangely enough get from Indians and Russians since years ... and honestly; who takes still seriously what they say? Barely anyone.

They are claiming since years we will see the Su-57 in service in large numbers, we will see the Tejas Mk.2 fly with Kaveri, the PAK-DA will be unveiled soon, there will be a carrier, no... in fact carriers soon ... and what happened.


If You don't want to argue and explain how Turkey can develop a F119/F135-class engine in that timeframe when other much less ambitious projects like the Altai's powerpack failed, then don't be upset if other countries and other members in forum don't take you seriously.

I can easily sit and wait for what will happen in a few years ... but could you do the same with your nationalistic ego and then admit You were wrong and it was a nationalistic boasted most overambitious, simply unrealistic project?
Or is then again RR - as in case with the Altai's powerpack Germany - guilty for the failure since they did not share full ToT for a few $$ or €€?

Anyway, lets wait.

Stop communicating with him, many users wrote whole essays to him about this topic for months now he never answered them back because he doesn't care about it, he just wants to let out his shallow racism every now and then and then he will piss off again for 3 months until he needs to vent it out.

Yes for sure ... since some of you still think you can transform a simple turboshaft into a high-end EJ200 comparable turofan and then assume the step from this one to an even more powerful engine for the TFX is so much easy. None of you gave any reasonable explanation or an argument how you want to develop a true high-end turbofan in less time with less money and less experience when several much more experience countries with bigger budget even fail?

 

[Khagan1923]

Yes for sure ... since some of you still think you can transform a simple turboshaft into a high-end EJ200 comparable turofan and then assume the step from this one to an even more powerful engine for the TFX is so much easy. None of you gave any reasonable explanation or an argument how you want to develop a true high-end turbofan in less time with less money and less experience when several much more experience countries with bigger budget even fail?

"Some" stop generalizing, that you pick out poorly worded comments here from 15 year old children but ignore the comments from professionals in the industry or insiders is enough of a tell. Stop writing the same shit over and over again with your little *** smugness, like what are you smug about?

There is a reason senior users have stopped responding to your automated trash comments. Because they are just as shallow as the act you put on. Why do you always turn up when you find a trash news article written by people who have more knowledge about cartoons then they have about the Military Industrial complex inside Turkey? The last time you turned up months ago you had another trash article written by ex fetö members in tow and got ripped to shreds and got stuck writing the same comment over and over again. Take the hint, maybe find a cure for your racism, I'm pretty sure you won't find it by jerking off to chinese copies off russian, american and european tech and by admiring a country that is committing a genocide right now.

So kindly bugger off. No one is interested in interacting with a obvious racist here, so you are free to leave to other threads.

 

[cabatli_53]

That's the same lame argument you strangely enough get from Indians and Russians since years ... and honestly; who takes still seriously what they say? Barely anyone.

They are claiming since years we will see the Su-57 in service in large numbers, we will see the Tejas Mk.2 fly with Kaveri, the PAK-DA will be unveiled soon, there will be a carrier, no... in fact carriers soon ... and what happened.


If You don't want to argue and explain how Turkey can develop a F119/F135-class engine in that timeframe when other much less ambitious projects like the Altai's powerpack failed, then don't be upset if other countries and other members in forum don't take you seriously.

I can easily sit and wait for what will happen in a few years ... but could you do the same with your nationalistic ego and then admit You were wrong and it was a nationalistic boasted most overambitious, simply unrealistic project?
Or is then again RR - as in case with the Altai's powerpack Germany - guilty for the failure since they did not share full ToT for a few $$ or €€?

Anyway, lets wait.




Yes for sure ... since some of you still think you can transform a simple turboshaft into a high-end EJ200 comparable turofan and then assume the step from this one to an even more powerful engine for the TFX is so much easy. None of you gave any reasonable explanation or an argument how you want to develop a true high-end turbofan in less time with less money and less experience when several much more experience countries with bigger budget even fail?

Up to present, It was a state of art but When Turkey matured in this field, Turboshaft tech suddenly became a simple one ? That must be the same"Simple" turboshaft that China is struggling to develop ? or forming a cooperation with French Safran to develop a competitive one ? This "simple" turboshaft is the reason you lost the Pakistani tender against T-129 Atak. You should better stop drailling thread with your biassed logic while behaving like a curious foreigner who is chasing for some "facts" which suits to your agenda.

 

[Deino]

"Some" stop generalizing, that you pick out poorly worded comments here from 15 year old children but ignore the comments from professionals in the industry or insiders is enough of a tell. Stop writing the same shit over and over again with your little *** smugness, like what are you smug about dude?

There is a reason senior users have stopped responding to your automated trash comments. Because they are just as shallow as the act you put on. Why do you always turn up when you find a trash news article written by people who have more knowledge about cartoons then they have about the Military Industrial complex inside Turkey? The last time you turned up you had another trash article written by ex fetö members in tow and got ripped to shreds and got stuck writing the same comment over and over again. Take the hint, maybe find a cure for your racism, I'm pretty sure you won't find it by jerking off to chinese copies off russian, american and european tech and by admiring a country that is committing a genocide right now.

So kindly bugger off.

Again you are bashing me of nationalism - even if you know nothing of me -, you bash the one who wrote an article you don't like ... but none of the questions - regardless who asked - were answered!

 

[-------]

That's the same lame argument you strangely enough get from Indians and Russians since years ... and honestly; who takes still seriously what they say? Barely anyone.

They are claiming since years we will see the Su-57 in service in large numbers, we will see the Tejas Mk.2 fly with Kaveri, the PAK-DA will be unveiled soon, there will be a carrier, no... in fact carriers soon ... and what happened.


If You don't want to argue and explain how Turkey can develop a F119/F135-class engine in that timeframe when other much less ambitious projects like the Altai's powerpack failed, then don't be upset if other countries and other members in forum don't take you seriously.

I can easily sit and wait for what will happen in a few years ... but could you do the same with your nationalistic ego and then admit You were wrong and it was a nationalistic boasted most overambitious, simply unrealistic project?
Or is then again RR - as in case with the Altai's powerpack Germany - guilty for the failure since they did not share full ToT for a few $$ or €€?

Anyway, lets wait.




Yes for sure ... since some of you still think you can transform a simple turboshaft into a high-end EJ200 comparable turofan and then assume the step from this one to an even more powerful engine for the TFX is so much easy. None of you gave any reasonable explanation or an argument how you want to develop a true high-end turbofan in less time with less money and less experience when several much more experience countries with bigger budget even fail?

No you're the same lame lizard that continues to regurgitate the same lame schit you've always have been doing, and you'll continue doing the same lame arsch crap since you're indoctrinated in that behaviour.

So yes, instead of spouting the same lame schit, wait.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

That's the same lame argument you strangely enough get from Indians and Russians since years ... and honestly; who takes still seriously what they say? Barely anyone.

They are claiming since years we will see the Su-57 in service in large numbers, we will see the Tejas Mk.2 fly with Kaveri, the PAK-DA will be unveiled soon, there will be a carrier, no... in fact carriers soon ... and what happened.


If You don't want to argue and explain how Turkey can develop a F119/F135-class engine in that timeframe when other much less ambitious projects like the Altai's powerpack failed, then don't be upset if other countries and other members in forum don't take you seriously.

I can easily sit and wait for what will happen in a few years ... but could you do the same with your nationalistic ego and then admit You were wrong and it was a nationalistic boasted most overambitious, simply unrealistic project?
Or is then again RR - as in case with the Altai's powerpack Germany - guilty for the failure since they did not share full ToT for a few $$ or €€?

Anyway, lets wait.




Yes for sure ... since some of you still think you can transform a simple turboshaft into a high-end EJ200 comparable turofan and then assume the step from this one to an even more powerful engine for the TFX is so much easy. None of you gave any reasonable explanation or an argument how you want to develop a true high-end turbofan in less time with less money and less experience when several much more experience countries with bigger budget even fail?

An assertive statement according to someone who believes that an airplane with black smoke behind it is the 5th generation.

 

[Deino]

"Simple" turboshaft that China is struggling to develop ? or forming a cooperation with French Safran to develop a competitive one ? This "simple" turboshaft is the reason you lost the Pakistani tender against T-129 Atak. You should better stop drailling thread with your biassed logic while behaving like a curious foreigner who is chasing for some "facts" which suits to your agenda.

I beg your pardon if you feel offended, but first I'm not a Chinese and as such contra-attacks against the engine issues China had and still have are irrelevant to me, but you must admit, that always turning down any critical argument or unliked question as an racial anti-Turky-campaign still does not solve any of these issues?

No you're the same lame lizard that continues to regurgitate the same lame schit you've always have been doing, and you'll continue doing the same lame arsch crap since you're indoctrinated in that behaviour.

So yes, instead of spouting the same lame schit, wait.

It's really almost funny how much fear and hate a simple question can cause, so that attacking the one who asked is the easier option than to reasonable explain!

But You are correct ... I'll promise to stop posting any comments here in the section
May you have the fun on your own.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

I beg your pardon if you feel offended, but first I'm not a Chinese and as such contra-attacks against the engine issues China had and still have are irrelevant to me, but you must admit, that always turning down any critical argument or unliked question as an racial anti-Turky-campaign still does not solve any of these issues?



It's really almost funny how much fear and hate a simple question can cause, so that attacking the one who asked is the easier option than to reasonable explain!

But You are correct ... I'll promise to stop posting any comments here in the section
May you have the fun on your own.

You have a lot of reason to make a critical argument, but if you visit this forum once a year and throw a critical article and run away, your goal is different.