Turkish Aviation Programs
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revojam
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Casus Belli
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Seyfullah
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When Ankara plans to build its own weapon systems or just buy them off-the-shelf, it plans big and no one seems to be worried. But the Turkish ambitions to build a “made-in-Turkey” fighter aircraft and buy scores of the new generation, multinational combat jet F-35 may go beyond Turkey’s financing capacity.
Defense industry officials estimate that building eight prototypes for what will become the Turkish national fighter would cost Ankara over $10 billion. “Any figure in the range of $11 billion to $13 billion would be realistic,” a senior official familiar with the program said.
His guess for the final Turkish order if the entire program succeeded was nearly 200 aircraft. “We target $100 million per aircraft,” he said. “I think 200 is a realistic figure given our aging fleet of aircraft that will phase out in the decades ahead.”
That means Turkey will have to spend $31 billion to $33 billion for the Turkish fighter it hopes to design, develop and manufacture. But independent analysts say this may be an over-optimistic calculation.
“We know that Turkey’s plans do not include developing an engine for the Turkish fighter. Moreover, I think, $100 million per aircraft is too optimistic given Turkey’s technological constraints, its high-cost industry and the fact that a newcomer [to the fighter industry] like Turkey will always suffer setbacks and trials and errors during the entire process.”
Turkey has been in talks with Sweden’s Saab for pre-conceptual design work for the country’s first national fighter jet. Saab is the maker of the JAS 39 Gripen, a lightweight single-engine multirole fighter. It was designed to replace the Saab 35 Draken and 37 Viggen in the Swedish Air Force (Flygvapnet). The Gripen is powered by the Volvo-Flygmotor RM12 engine, a derivative of the General Electric F404, and has a top speed of Mach 2.
100 more from US
Turkey hopes that under its fighter jet program, dubbed the TF-X, it can fly the Turkish fighter by 2023, the centennial of the republic. Turkey’s aerospace powerhouse, TAI, has been working on three different designs, and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is expected to decide on whether to go ahead with the plan at a defense industry committee meeting later this year.
Meanwhile, Turkey, whose present fighter fleet is made up of U.S.-made aircraft, also plans to buy the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a next-generation, multinational program also led by the United States.
Most of Turkey’s fleet of F-16 fighters, being modernized by Lockheed Martin, and the planned future F-35s are open to U.S. technological influence. Only its older F-4 aircraft, modernized by Israel, and its oldest F-16s, being modernized by Turkey itself, are free from this influence. But these older aircraft are expected to be decommissioned around 2020.
Turkey’s defense procurement officials have said Ankara intends to buy around 100 F-35s. Defense analysts estimate the cost of the entire JSF program to Turkey to be around $16 billion, bringing Turkey’s fighter budget up to $50 billion together with the TF-X.
July/30/2013
Defense industry officials estimate that building eight prototypes for what will become the Turkish national fighter would cost Ankara over $10 billion. “Any figure in the range of $11 billion to $13 billion would be realistic,” a senior official familiar with the program said.
His guess for the final Turkish order if the entire program succeeded was nearly 200 aircraft. “We target $100 million per aircraft,” he said. “I think 200 is a realistic figure given our aging fleet of aircraft that will phase out in the decades ahead.”
That means Turkey will have to spend $31 billion to $33 billion for the Turkish fighter it hopes to design, develop and manufacture. But independent analysts say this may be an over-optimistic calculation.
“We know that Turkey’s plans do not include developing an engine for the Turkish fighter. Moreover, I think, $100 million per aircraft is too optimistic given Turkey’s technological constraints, its high-cost industry and the fact that a newcomer [to the fighter industry] like Turkey will always suffer setbacks and trials and errors during the entire process.”
Turkey has been in talks with Sweden’s Saab for pre-conceptual design work for the country’s first national fighter jet. Saab is the maker of the JAS 39 Gripen, a lightweight single-engine multirole fighter. It was designed to replace the Saab 35 Draken and 37 Viggen in the Swedish Air Force (Flygvapnet). The Gripen is powered by the Volvo-Flygmotor RM12 engine, a derivative of the General Electric F404, and has a top speed of Mach 2.
100 more from US
Turkey hopes that under its fighter jet program, dubbed the TF-X, it can fly the Turkish fighter by 2023, the centennial of the republic. Turkey’s aerospace powerhouse, TAI, has been working on three different designs, and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is expected to decide on whether to go ahead with the plan at a defense industry committee meeting later this year.
Meanwhile, Turkey, whose present fighter fleet is made up of U.S.-made aircraft, also plans to buy the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a next-generation, multinational program also led by the United States.
Most of Turkey’s fleet of F-16 fighters, being modernized by Lockheed Martin, and the planned future F-35s are open to U.S. technological influence. Only its older F-4 aircraft, modernized by Israel, and its oldest F-16s, being modernized by Turkey itself, are free from this influence. But these older aircraft are expected to be decommissioned around 2020.
Turkey’s defense procurement officials have said Ankara intends to buy around 100 F-35s. Defense analysts estimate the cost of the entire JSF program to Turkey to be around $16 billion, bringing Turkey’s fighter budget up to $50 billion together with the TF-X.
July/30/2013
Seyfullah
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Exclusive] Turkey could join Korea’s fighter plan
By Jung Sung-ki
GYEONGJU, North Gyeongsang Province ― Turkey has shown a strong interest in joining Korea’s KF-X fighter development plan, after having already won investment from Indonesia, a chief of the military's aircraft programs said.
Maj. Gen. Choi Cha-kyu, director general of the aircraft program bureau at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), said during a forum here Tuesday that Ankara is seriously considering participating in the KF-X program to replace its 180 older F-16 aircraft by 2020.
“Turkey’s air force operates about 180 F-16 aircraft, and there will be a requirement to replace the older fighters with newer ones by 2020,” the two-star Air Force general said. “Once on board, Turkey is expected to bear the same amount of development costs as Indonesia.”
Cha said the KF-X, which was initiated in 2002 but postponed due to financial and technological problems, will start next year with the consent of budget authorities.
Industry sources say Turkey’s participation in the KF-X project could result in a barter deal. Ankara wants Seoul to consider its T-129 helicopter, under development for the Turkish Army, as a candidate for the AH-X heavy attack helicopter acquisition program.
The KF-X program calls for developing an indigenous fighter similar to the latest F-16 by 2022 with financial support from foreign nations or defense companies.
About 120 KF-Xs would be built initially and more than 130 aircraft would be produced additionally after the first-phase models reach operational capability.
Korea will foot 60 percent of the KF-X development costs worth some 5 trillion won ($4.2 billion), with the balance to come from other governments or corporate partners in a “risk sharing” attempt.
Under a memorandum of understanding (MOU) signed on July 15, Indonesia agreed to bear 20 percent of the bill and buy about 50 KF-X planes when mass production begins.
The production costs after the development phase are estimated to be about 6 trillion won.
Korea is seeking to receive relevant technology transfers from U.S. and European aerospace firms. Possible corporate partners include Boeing and Lockheed Martin of the United States, the European defense group EADS and Sweden’s Saab.
The original proposal for the KF-X was to develop a fifth-generation stealth fighter, something that is in between the Dassault Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon and the Lockheed Martin F-35.
Amid controversy over the feasibility of the original plan, the DAPA commissioned a second study in April last year to the Weapons Systems Concept Development and Application Research Center of Konkuk University.
The center then recommended a plan to develop an F-16 type aircraft fitted with the AESA radar, an electronic warfare suite and data link systems fit for a network-centric environment.
The think tank also recommended the jet to have a combat radius about 1.5 times that of the F-16, an airframe life span 1.34 times longer than that of the F-16 and better avionics than that of the F-16 Block 50.
Among other required capabilities are a thrust of 50,000 pounds, provided by either one or two engines, super-velocity intercept and supercruise capabilities, and the ability to hit targets in the air, on land and at sea.
By Jung Sung-ki
GYEONGJU, North Gyeongsang Province ― Turkey has shown a strong interest in joining Korea’s KF-X fighter development plan, after having already won investment from Indonesia, a chief of the military's aircraft programs said.
Maj. Gen. Choi Cha-kyu, director general of the aircraft program bureau at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), said during a forum here Tuesday that Ankara is seriously considering participating in the KF-X program to replace its 180 older F-16 aircraft by 2020.
“Turkey’s air force operates about 180 F-16 aircraft, and there will be a requirement to replace the older fighters with newer ones by 2020,” the two-star Air Force general said. “Once on board, Turkey is expected to bear the same amount of development costs as Indonesia.”
Cha said the KF-X, which was initiated in 2002 but postponed due to financial and technological problems, will start next year with the consent of budget authorities.
Industry sources say Turkey’s participation in the KF-X project could result in a barter deal. Ankara wants Seoul to consider its T-129 helicopter, under development for the Turkish Army, as a candidate for the AH-X heavy attack helicopter acquisition program.
The KF-X program calls for developing an indigenous fighter similar to the latest F-16 by 2022 with financial support from foreign nations or defense companies.
About 120 KF-Xs would be built initially and more than 130 aircraft would be produced additionally after the first-phase models reach operational capability.
Korea will foot 60 percent of the KF-X development costs worth some 5 trillion won ($4.2 billion), with the balance to come from other governments or corporate partners in a “risk sharing” attempt.
Under a memorandum of understanding (MOU) signed on July 15, Indonesia agreed to bear 20 percent of the bill and buy about 50 KF-X planes when mass production begins.
The production costs after the development phase are estimated to be about 6 trillion won.
Korea is seeking to receive relevant technology transfers from U.S. and European aerospace firms. Possible corporate partners include Boeing and Lockheed Martin of the United States, the European defense group EADS and Sweden’s Saab.
The original proposal for the KF-X was to develop a fifth-generation stealth fighter, something that is in between the Dassault Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon and the Lockheed Martin F-35.
Amid controversy over the feasibility of the original plan, the DAPA commissioned a second study in April last year to the Weapons Systems Concept Development and Application Research Center of Konkuk University.
The center then recommended a plan to develop an F-16 type aircraft fitted with the AESA radar, an electronic warfare suite and data link systems fit for a network-centric environment.
The think tank also recommended the jet to have a combat radius about 1.5 times that of the F-16, an airframe life span 1.34 times longer than that of the F-16 and better avionics than that of the F-16 Block 50.
Among other required capabilities are a thrust of 50,000 pounds, provided by either one or two engines, super-velocity intercept and supercruise capabilities, and the ability to hit targets in the air, on land and at sea.
u.MP
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Joint-development of a new aircraft is possible
kollang
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Guys,HESA is planing to build a new regional aircraft(with 50 person capacity) next Persian year.as Hesa's head has claimed,7 foreign companies will participate in the project.
Do you think of any possible Turkish company for this case?
Do you think of any possible Turkish company for this case?
Seyfullah
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Just read an article before the one you read.
golgelerprensi
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But.... 2010-09-08 18:28
Turkey could join Korea’s fighter plan
By Jung Sung-ki
Baykuş
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I think this is impossible because of political and strategical means. Besides, I believe the current sanctions against Iran would make it hard for Turkey to contribute with any technology.
Brother, you are 6 posts late
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@ post number #261 we have already discussed this article: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/267711-turkey-s-50-billion-jet-program-question.html
KF-X offer already handed-down by Turkish Government as Korean's didn't accept a 50%-50% partnership.
KF-X offer already handed-down by Turkish Government as Korean's didn't accept a 50%-50% partnership.
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