Turki pushes for Arab peace plan

[Zarvan]

• 
  
  Prince Turki Al-Faisal, former intelligence chief of Saudi Arabia
  

Prince Turki Al-Faisal, former intelligence chief of Saudi Arabia, has urged Israel to accept the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, which had been originally proposed by Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah.
“It was a great move on the part of Arab countries to establish peace with Israel,” Prince Turki said during a recent dialogue with former Israeli military intelligence chief Amos Yadlin in Brussels.
It was a mostly amiable, hour-long conversation, marked by more agreement than disagreement as they discussed Iran, Syria, religious radicalism and the regional arms race, said a press report.
Prince Turki said the 2002 peace offer was the most explicit public Saudi declaration to date of Saudi willingness to make peace and end the conflict.
Yaldin said three-fourths of Israelis had never heard of the 2002 peace plan and asked the prince to visit Jerusalem and address the Knesset.
Prince Turki replied that it was the Israeli leadership’s job to “explain to their people what the Arab Peace Initiative is” and urged Israel to agree to enter discussions based on the proposal.
The dialogue was hosted by the Brussels-based German Marshall Fund and moderated by Washington Post columnist David Ignatius.
Turki pushes for Arab peace plan | Arab News — Saudi Arabia News, Middle East News, Opinion, Economy and more.

 

[al-Hasani]

@Zarvan

The interview that the article is referring to is this one:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

My comment on it:

Great, great performance by HRH Turki bin Faisal Al-Saud. Proving once again to be a great representative of KSA and the Arab and Muslim world. Very articulated, calm, straightforward, humorous and most importantly honest.

He definetely "won" the debate against that former Israeli general and former intelligence head. Although Amos Yadlin also had good points and he genuinely seem to want peace and a two-state solution.

A great deal was spent on discussing the Arab Peace initiative from 2002 (led by the current King Abdullah - back then Crown Prince but de facto ruler) and the first Arab peace initiative led by King Fahd back in 1981 or 1983 if I recall.

I also liked Turki's personal anecdotes (let us not forget that he is the son of the late and very respected King Faisal) and the comment of the general as well when he spoke about European infighting and his comments about WW1 and WW1 and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict being a drop in the ocean in comparison. That can be seen in part 3.

Regarding the nuclear thing (which only lasted for about 15 min.) Turki (wisely in my opinion) emphasized the need for a nuclear free ME which INCLUDES that of Israel. He openly said that Israel has nuclear weapons and that no Arab, ME or Muslim state would be foolish enough to attack a nuclear armed Israel.

His proposal was for the 5 permanent members of the Security Council to actively secure a nuclear free Middle East but at the same time guarantee the safety of every ME state and if ME state x or y broke the agreement that not only financial and political sanctions would be a consequence but also militarily action. As I remember it.

@Hazzy997

I think that you should watch it. Especially part 1 about Palestine/Israel. The longest. You will get the KSA's perspective of the conflict as well and dare I see the majority of the Arab world.

It's a shame that Turki is getting old. He would have made a good king and leader.

A link to the thread:

Former intelligence heads of Israel/Saudi Arabia debate

The 2002 Arab Peace Initiative initiated by the current King Abdullah of KSA:

Arab Peace Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ResurgentIran]

Prince Turki is wasting his time.

 

[al-Hasani]

Prince Turki is wasting his time.

It's worth a try and the Arab Peace Initiative from 2002 is still the best solution put forward by any party to date and the most realistic when it comes to succeeding.
But as long as the Likud Party are ruling Israel and Netanyahu is the Prime Minister I doubt that anything will happen. But no matter what the radicals in Israel try then a sovereign Palestine is a question of time. When is more difficult to answer.

 

[ResurgentIran]

It's worth a try and the Arab Peace Initiative from 2002 is still the best solution put forward by any party to date and the most realistic when it comes to succeeding.
But as long as the Likud Party are ruling Israel and Netanyahu is the Prime Minister I doubt that anything will happen. But no matter what the radicals in Israel try then a sovereign Palestine is a question of time. When is more difficult to answer.

Its not worth the time. I dont think you realise the depth of the powerful ideological factors that are deeply entrenched in the Israeli mind and national narrative. Concessions from any Israeli politician is impossible, and you are naive if you think otherwise.

Today there is one state between the Jordan river and Meditarrenan sea. Israel made sure of that.

As long as Likud is ruling Israel?
Where have you been? The Israeli population is increasingly shifting towards the right and on the trajectory of becoming an ethnofascist state of the highest order (worse than it already is).
If you think Netanyahu is bad, wait til a neofascist like Lieberman comes to power.

 

[al-Hasani]

Its not worth the time. I dont think you realise the depth of the powerful ideological factors that are deeply entrenched in the Israeli mind and national narrative. Concessions from any Israeli politician is impossible, and you are naive if you think otherwise.

Today there is one state between the Jordan river and Meditarrenan sea. Israel made sure of that.

As long as Likud is ruling Israel?
Where have you been? The Israeli population is increasingly shifting towards the right and on the trajectory of becoming an ethnofascist state of the highest order (worse than it already is).
If you think Netanyahu is bad, wait til a neofascist like Lieberman comes to power.

I know that both parties need to make serious concessions. Such as land swaps, the Palestine refugee problem, no illegal Israeli settlements, blockade etc.

Well, the newer generation will with all due probability want another future - that of peace and coexistence. Every statistic that I have seen has shown that most Palestinians AND Israelis support a two state solution.

The problem is finding out what this will mean on the ground. The nature of the concessions and how it will be implemented. That's where the problem lies.

Anyway I am hopeful of there once again being direct plights from Makkah to Al-Quds (Jerusalem) in the future and anywhere else in the Arab world.

 

[ResurgentIran]

I know that both parties need to make serious concessions. Such as land swaps, the Palestine refugee problem, no illegal Israeli settlements, blockade etc.

Well, the newer generation will with all due probability want another future - that of peace and coexistence. Every statistic that I have seen has shown that most Palestinians AND Israelis support a two state solution.

The problem is finding out what this will mean on the ground. I mean a two state solution.

Anyway I am hopeful of there once again being direct plights from Makkah to Al-Quds (Jerusalem) in the future.

The newer generation of Israelis are more racist than the previous one. Thats the natural course of a country occupying another people. It corrodes a country and its people.

Sure Israelis want "two-state" solution but not the one that you think. WHen they say two state solution they mean Palestinian bantustans/enclaves that is to be sealed off by walls and fences. With no continuity or freedom of movement.
Basically keep Palestinian in cages like animals.
That is what they mean with their "two state" solution.

Anyhoo. By all means, KSA can push the initiative. I just think its not going to go anywhere. If it did not go anywhere in the 90s with Yithzak Rabin (the only Israel leader that serioulsy tried to move toward a two-state solution and got ASSASSINATED for it), it will certainly not go anywhere now, when the Israeli public is even more right wing.

 

[al-Hasani]

The newer generation of Israelis are more racist than the previous one. Thats the natural course of a country occupying another people. It corrodes a country and its people.

Sure Israelis want "two-state" solution but not the one that you think. WHen they say two state solution they mean Palestinian bantustans/enclaves that is to be sealed off by walls and fences. With no continuity or freedom of movement.
Basically keep Palestinian in cages like animals.
That is what they mean with their "two state" solution.

Anyhoo. By all means, KSA can push the initiative. I just think its not going to go anywhere. If it did not go anywhere in the 90s with Yithzak Rabin (the only Israel leader that serioulsy tried to move toward a two-state solution and got ASSASSINATED for it), it will certainly not go anywhere now, when the Israeli public is even more right wing.

Maybe you are right and I am too naive. But logic at least tells us that the conflict cannot go on forever and the international society is being more and more critical of Israel and I highly doubt that they will be able to keep going as they do for an eternity. It's just that you have Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen, Iran (nuclear issue and the regime's overall conduct) and other countries in relative turmoil (the worst is obviously Syria) that takes all the publicity or most of it. That's to the benefit of Israel.

I would say that I am mildly optimistic of a long-lasting two-state solution succeeding in my lifetime.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Maybe you are right and I am too naive. But logic at least tells us that the conflict cannot go on forever and the international society is being more and more critical of Israel and I highly doubt that they will be able to keep going as they do for an eternity. It's just that you have Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen, Iran (nuclear issue and the regime's overall conduct) and other countries in relative turmoil (the worst is obviously Syria) that takes all the publicity or most of it. That's to the benefit of Israel.

I would say that I am mildly optimistic of a long-lasting two-state solution succeeding in my lifetime.

Time will tell. I predict that at the end of the day we will see some sort of Israel/Palestine confederation.
However, a lot of blood is probably going to be spilled before that happens.

 

[al-Hasani]

Time will tell. I predict that at the end of the day we will see some sort of Israel/Palestine confederation.
However, a lot of blood is probably going to be spilled before that happens.

Well, I have no illusions to say the least. But honestly speaking the Israeli-Palestine conflict is just one of the problems of the ME. Solving it will help a lot but some people have delusions of it solving every single problem in the ME. Anyway wrong is wrong and Palestine must become a truly sovereign and independent state in the ME.

Anyawy we are talking about the mother of all conflicts. If the conflict can be solved then every other conflict can as well.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Well, I have no illusions to say the least. But honestly speaking the Israeli-Palestine conflict is just one of the problems of the ME. Solving it will help a lot but some people have delusions of it solving every single problem in the ME. Anyway wrong is wrong and Palestine must become a truly sovereign and independent state in the ME.

Anyawy we are talking about the mother of all conflicts. If the conflict can be solved then every other conflict can as well.

Well it will not be quick. This is something that is gonna have to be grinded out for decades.
I imagine Israel will get increasingly isolated to an international pariah ala Nord Korea. Or Iran. lol

 

[al-Hasani]

Well it will not be quick. This is something that is gonna have to be grinded out for decades.
I imagine Israel will get increasingly isolated to an international pariah ala Nord Korea. Or Iran. lol

Well Iran cannot be compared to North Korea at all. It's not that bad or even close. North Korea is a surreal and sad example of what evil can do. It's just insane what is going on there and the indoctrination. They make the Nazis appear like school kids.

Well there is one problem with that. If Israel was any other country than it is they would probably get a much bigger beating in the media, international community etc. But you have the Jewish lobby and powerful Jews in the West at very high positions preventing that from happening.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Well Iran cannot be compared to North Korea at all. It's not that bad or even close. North Korea is a surreal and sad example of what evil can do. It's just insane what is going on there and the indoctrination. They make the Nazis appear like school kids.

Well there is one problem with that. If Israel was any other country than it is they would probably get a much bigger beating in the media, international community etc. But you have the Jewish lobby and powerful Jews in the West at very high positions preventing that from happening.

Yeah Iran is not a hermite kingdom like N.Korea.
The ironic thing is that that is exactly what Israel may turn up becoming. A closed hermite kingdom.

Maybe not as bad as Korea, but to some degree. Honestly where in the world except Israel is a country defined in ethnic terms instead of national (Israel as a Jewish state)?
When Israel is already a binational state with large Arab minority.
It would be like calling Belgium the state of the Belgian dutch. Anywhere else in the world it would be intolerable.

 

[al-Hasani]

Yeah Iran is not a hermite kingdom like N.Korea.
The ironic thing is that that is exactly what Israel may turn up becoming. A closed hermite kingdom.

Maybe not as bad as Korea, but to some degree. Honestly where in the world except Israel is a country defined in ethnic terms instead of national (Israel as a Jewish state). When Israel is already a binational state with large Arab minority.
It would be like calling Belgium the state of the Belgian dutch.

Iran will be all-right if the regime changes or even when the hardcore old guard leaves this planet. North Korea is doomed at least for the next 1-2 generations even if they became free tomorrow IMO.

To be honest there is nothing wrong with defying a state as a Jewish/Arab/Persian/English etc. state. I mean you have a State Church in Denmark and if you asked the ordinary Dane he would say that Denmark is the homeland of the Danes and thus a Danish state.

It gets more complicate in Israel because they are basically migrants of various background:

I often like to illustrate that by this photo:



Anyway Israel must at least be given credit for making Arabic an official language jointly with Hebrew. I am by no means any proponent of Israel but there are things that we could learn from them as well. Such as science, technology, the agricultural sector etc.

I am not against Judaism which is a fellow Abrahamic religion close to Islam (closer than Christianity) or Jews as a people (our cousins, LOL) or ethnic group it's just the current ISRAELI state and their conduct since 1947 that most people should be against.
I don't deny Israel the right to exist as a state. It's just that they need to stop harassing Palestinians and recognize Palestine as a truly independent and free state with everything included in all that.

 

[xenon54 out]

Interesting name though.