Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[xenon54 out]

For the good of Turkey, F-35.

For my personal entertainment, S-400.

If an Indian favors something then you can be sure its bad for a Turk.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

freedom should be the turkeys choice.
Turkey was nato member and close US ally but US threaten it economy and security.
Meanwhile US is trying to sell its THAAD to its new ally in asia despite the fact that it had purchased S-400.

 

[randomradio]

If an Indian favors something then you can be sure its bad for a Turk.

Then don't go for the F-35.

 

[xenon54 out]

Then don't go for the F-35.

But you favor S-400 for the lolz.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

freedom should be the turkeys choice.
Turkey was nato member and close US ally but US threaten it economy and security.
Meanwhile US is trying to sell its THAAD to its new ally in asia despite the fact that it had purchased S-400.

We're still a Nato member and believe me when I say, even Mr. Erdoğan wouldn't dare to leave Nato.

In addition, the history between Turkey and the West isn't just black and white. Especially the Turkish-US relationship is very complex and muddled.

Yes, the US is supporting a party which is a designated terror organisation in Turkey and the US itself. However, the fact remains that Washington first came to us for assistance in Syria. Back than, we simply weren't able to provide decent support. The Americans wasted a few 100 million USD in Central Anatolia, training and providing equipment for Turkish-backed FSA fighters.

They started supporting PKK shortly after our failure to organise a vital opposition force against Assad.

Unfortunately, the majority of Turks and Pakistani doesn't understand how the US are wired. If you cannot exploit them as an ally, blame yourself. Even though I hate the puppet regimes of the GCC, they know exactly how to play the US.

The Soviet Union once threatened to invade North East Turkey. Thanks to a strong US response, they backed down. Without the Americans, Mr. Erdoğan would probably speak Georgian today.

Having the US as an ally is worrisome; having them as an enemy is potentially disastrous.

This is sad but it's the reality of our generation. We could change it but it is going to take a lot of effort and it will definitely take time.

 

[Exxxe]

S-400 is the option I choose

F-35 are indeed better for the carrier and for the 12 billion income but the US has used them as a bargaining chip publicly to influence turkey decision

The US is already using F-35 to dictate turkey and they are not delivered yet ( once delivered it will be spare parts to dictate )

So turkey cant choose the F-35 even if it's better option because they will be vulnerable to US demands and choosing it demonstrates to the US the submissive role and to Russia as well

So Turkey will be at the US mercy and Russia won't be happy or eager to cooperate in the industry field anytime soon for all the lost trust in cancelling s-400 and effectively submitting

The US could choose an approach to seduce turkey ( f-35 with Patriots or tech transfer ) or even just give price incentives instead they choose ultimatums and threats disregarding any respect to its ally

So s-400 became a must all thanks to the US and not the actual system that will only be in need for 3 or so years till domestic alternatives are ready

 

[Nein]

We're still a Nato member and believe me when I say, even Mr. Erdoğan wouldn't dare to leave Nato.

In addition, the history between Turkey and the West isn't just black and white. Especially the Turkish-US relationship is very complex and muddled.

Yes, the US is supporting a party which is a designated terror organisation in Turkey and the US itself. However, the fact remains that Washington first came to us for assistance in Syria. Back than, we simply weren't able to provide decent support. The Americans wasted a few 100 million USD in Central Anatolia, training and providing equipment for Turkish-backed FSA fighters.

They started supporting PKK shortly after our failure to organise a vital opposition force against Assad.

Unfortunately, the majority of Turks and Pakistani doesn't understand how the US are wired. If you cannot exploit them as an ally, blame yourself. Even though I hate the puppet regimes of the GCC, they know exactly how to play the US.

The Soviet Union once threatened to invade North East Turkey. Thanks to a strong US response, they backed down. Without the Americans, Mr. Erdoğan would probably speak Georgian today.

Having the US as an ally is worrisome; having them as an enemy is potentially disastrous.

This is sad but it's the reality of our generation. We could change it but it is going to take a lot of effort and it will definitely take time.

You mean Russian not Georgian

 

[cabatli_53]

In terms of operational readiness, Both of them are effective weapon system to provide dererrence enough to keep enemy out of Turkish interests but If Turkey come a last line to give decision to activate S-400 batteries to fire a few missile against enemy, The condition of state would be in really dangerous position in terms of blocking a likely escalation so we won’t see S400 batteries in operational usage out of a few exercises. In addition, A clever saturation attack against any SAM batteries can take them out of the play If Airforce use own instruments in an effective way so Network centric warfare is vital for SAm batteries to be operated under a family integrity principle from short to long range but Turkey won’t have much chance to connect S-400 into NATO network so It will create a defficiency in operational effectiveness until National SAM missiles become operational in national HEIRKKS nerwork. Contrary to S-400, F-35 can be charged to carry out missions in daily basis. They can be operated for ground supression and air defense missions as well. They will be effective to achieve strike operations against terrorist organizations locating in our South border as well. F-35 can be a letal anti-ship weapon system against enemy Navy when SOM-J/C1/C2 missiles integrated on internal/external stations so In terms of operational benefits, I believe F35 can provide much more than S-400 would provide.

In terms of industrial benefits, Turkey has a workload more than 10 billion $. More than ten institutes are working for F35 in global supply chain. Most critical parts of engine in also manufactured by a few Turkish institutes. Turkey was selected as global engine meintenance hub for region. On the other hand, S-400 are purchased with a government to government deal and This deal doesn’t contain any tech transfer or offset option excluding some minor software modification so If industrial benefits are considered, F35 comes first again.


But the best option for Turkey is to purchase both of them If possible.

 

[Malpsoy]

Also Germany cancelled F 35 purchase. I wonder, according to this situation, the US can bring us a ban? How will the increase in cost of sales affect the US and other buyers?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1092382969413754881

 

[Damir877]

S 400.Turkey has been threatened with cancellation of F 35 since they started working on TFX,then when they chose HQ-9 and now for choosing S-400.Even if Turks get the F 35 they will be blackmailed for spare parts every time they do something against the wishes of their strategic ally.
The problem with giving in to threats is that once you do it,they will only become more frequent and serious,not to mention losing respect even from your and allies.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Also Germany cancelled F 35 purchase. I wonder, according to this situation, the US can bring us a ban? How will the increase in cost of sales affect the US and other buyers?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1092382969413754881

To be fair Germany didnt cancel it, they just didnt “choose” it.
The current price of the F-35 is not calculated based on potential sales but received orders only

 

[313ghazi]

Imo Turkey is treading a seperate path from the USA. They'll be allies for the next 20 years at least, so F35 should not be off the cards (if it makes military sense) but by the next gen Turkey needs to be free of US reliance for anything of strategic value.

 

[CAN_TR]

Vice President of Defense Industry Celal Sami Tufekci:
Short: Turkey will use it's own software codes + friend and foe identification programs on the S-400.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1094234201577140224

 

[Nurhak40]

s400

 

[Mucahit]

F-35 for sure. For all the money we're pouring into S-400 it's not worth it. The Russians aren't willing to give know-how and we won't be able to use it with its full capacity so it's kinda useless. Besides, we haven't used such advanced Russian system ever and won't be able to notice if they're spying us with it.

Just get the Patriots for a reasonable price, keep working on other projects with European partners and improve on existing Defence system projects.

On top of all that, we don't know how S-400 even performs.