Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[Successwill]

As stated above, procurement of F35 is another dependancy on the US. This never-ending craziness should be stopped immediately. We can go for a stop gap solution such as Eurofighter, Gripen etc, maybe Russian fighters until MMU matures.

i trust neither US nor China nor another one. We need to focus much much more to our indigenious projects.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Depends.

If our industrial participation won't be effected, I'd chose the S400.

If the US government not only blocks the transfer of our F35s but excludes us from the F35 program at the same time, I'd say we're making a grave mistake here.

Sometimes you have to swallow your pride in order to achieve bigger goals. Our industrial participation is worth 13 - 16.000.000.000 USD. If we take this income into account, we'll recognise that our F35s are actually extremely cheap. Or I could put it this way: several of our birds are effectively a gift from the US to Turkey.

Yes, the US is an shitty ally but we simply need their money and technology - at least for now.

 

[CAN_TR]

Within the next 5 years our HISAR A+O and SIPER SAM systems will go in serial production, but our Air Force operates only F-16 and some F-4. We can't wait 12 years until TF-X's serial production. The Turkish Navy plans also with F-35-B for our LHD's.

So in my opinion: Turkey needs F-35 more than S-400 which by the way never proved itself in combat.

Q: Is it allowed to use it's own Software/codes for the F-35?

 

[Bismarck]

Already western civilization inherited most inventions from Chinese. There is nothing wrong, i think. They invested students abroad to study and now they harvest it. They go back to serve their own country.

I think you get me wrong. Of course it is not a problem to studying in foreign countries and apply the learned at home. I talk about espionage. The students were arrested and we send them back to China.

 

[randomradio]

For the good of Turkey, F-35.

For my personal entertainment, S-400.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Here is my take on the subject:

F-35
The F-35 represents the most advanced fighter jet on the planet. It may not have an edge over the F-22 but still, it has a host of systems that is a generation more advanced.
Receiving the F-35 will give Turkey an uncontested aerial dominance in the region (with the exception of israel). Turkey will have the upper hand in aerial conflicts with most countries in the region such as Iran, Syria, Greece and even Russia. It also provides Turkish companies with industrial participation opportunities woth upwards of $12B.
But most importantly, I dont see any realistic replacements for the F-35. The TFX is an air-superiority-oriented fighter and so is Su-57. The Eurofighter Typhoon is a 4th generation fighter and it will not be really an upgrade over F-16s. There are no other 5th generation ground attack fighters in the world.
The F-35 also makes the dream of an aircraft carrier possible for Turkey. At the moment the only possible choice of a carrier-based fighter jet for TCG Anadolu and Trakya seems to be the B variant of the F-35.

S-400
The S-400 is said to be the most advanced air and missile defence system in the world. It has an unrivalled range of 400 km which makes it an outstanding asset. The S-400 will also be a safeguard for Turkey in case of a conflict with NATO or European countries such as Greece. Because even if the rumored “off-switch” in American weapons is not true, the US could cut off supplies of spare parts in case of a conflict that they dont like and we would be sitting ducks without the S-400s. We know this too well from the Cyprus Peace Operation
However, I believe the S-400 can be replaced rather easily. We have our own solutions such as the Hisar series of SAMs and the Siper system which would make up for the loss of the S-400 just fine. Worst case scenario we could acquire the European SAMP-T system.


So in conclusion, I personally would prefer the F-35 for the following reasons:

1. It is irreplaceable
2. It comes with $12B+ of industrial participation
3. It has dual purpose (An advanced jet + carrier deployability)
4. Purchasing the S-400 means severing of ties with the US which we very much need for our defence projects as well as for their investments

 

[Quasar]

Here is my take on the subject:

F-35
The F-35 represents the most advanced fighter jet on the planet. It may not have an edge over the F-22 but still, it has a host of systems that is a generation more advanced.
Receiving the F-35 will give Turkey an uncontested aerial dominance in the region (with the exception of israel). Turkey will have the upper hand in aerial conflicts with most countries in the region such as Iran, Syria, Greece and even Russia. It also provides Turkish companies with industrial participation opportunities woth upwards of $12B.
But most importantly, I dont see any realistic replacements for the F-35. The TFX is an air-superiority-oriented fighter and so is Su-57. The Eurofighter Typhoon is a 4th generation fighter and it will not be really an upgrade over F-16s. There are no other 5th generation ground attack fighters in the world.
The F-35 also makes the dream of an aircraft carrier possible for Turkey. At the moment the only possible choice of a carrier-based fighter jet for TCG Anadolu and Trakya seems to be the B variant of the F-35.

S-400
The S-400 is said to be the most advanced air and missile defence system in the world. It has an unrivalled range of 400 km which makes it an outstanding asset. The S-400 will also be a safeguard for Turkey in case of a conflict with NATO or European countries such as Greece. Because even if the rumored “off-switch” in American weapons is not true, the US could cut off supplies of spare parts in case of a conflict that they dont like and we would be sitting ducks without the S-400s. We know this too well from the Cyprus Peace Operation
However, I believe the S-400 can be replaced rather easily. We have our own solutions such as the Hisar series of SAMs and the Siper system which would make up for the loss of the S-400 just fine. Worst case scenario we could acquire the European SAMP-T system.


So in conclusion, I personally would prefer the F-35 for the following reasons:

1. It is irreplaceable
2. It comes with $12B+ of industrial participation
3. It has dual purpose (An advanced jet + carrier deployability)
4. Purchasing the S-400 means severing of ties with the US which we very much need for our defence projects as well as for their investments

So far the most sanely written arguments based on apparent facts thanks for making sense! whether we like it or not! bottom line is 1. For us It is irreplaceable for NOW!

 

[azyr]

We need air defenses ASAP, preferably last year, or even 10 years before today.
While we also need fighter jets to replace our F4's there are other options available (that aren't ideal, but they'll do for now).

We could use a gap filler until the TF-X while also not giving the USA another card to use against us (spare parts and servicing for the F35s in the future).

The S-400 itself is a gap filler too though, but we're so incredibly starved in air defenses that it is a must to have and it is needed incredibly urgently. The Aegean war looks like it might actually happen - and in that war's timeframe we can push our fighter fleet to its limits and be ok, but we don't have any substantial AA systems to cover us.

The F35, imo, is a fantastic project it only gets better with time. It's naval variants (both the B and C) are spectacular and modern planes needed and sought out by every navy in the world. The A variant is a cheaper to maintain F22 (with albeit SOME concessions) while also filling the role of a flying radar and command center.

But it has too many strings attached, and those strings are attached to the countries that pose the biggest threat to Turkey in the near term, i.e. 5 to 10 years.

Ideally, S-400 and F35 - if that can't happen, then unfortunately the S-400 option should be taken.

 

[Swordbreaker12]

What's the problem here ? S-400 is designed to shoot down stealth jets why is turkey heating up the debate over the f-35 and its air superiority capabilities if it could be shot down by the system ! Let's say in a case between the US and turkey, turkey exactly knows who's got the upper hand in the skies so it should focus to strengthen its air defense capabilities and Russia offered turkey an opportunity its the s-400 why would i cancel an order of what can guarantees me a aeral victory above my own skies ! I know it's not 100% solution that's because of the stand off weapons so I would say a 70% survive chance 30% for the f-35

And to be honest what can the f-35 offer ?

 

[monitor]

2019 is a big year for Turkey in terms of defence. Among other things, two important purchases are set to arrive by the end of this year; the first two F-35 jets and the first S-400 battery.

It is becoming very likely that the US will try to restrict Turkey’s role in the F-35 program if it chooses to proceed with the purchase of the S-400 air defence system.

If it comes down to it, and Turkey absolutely had to choose one, which one of the two should Turkey choose?

 

[Swordbreaker12]

Within the next 5 years our HISAR A+O and SIPER SAM systems will go in serial production, but our Air Force operates only F-16 and some F-4. We can't wait 12 years until TF-X's serial production. The Turkish Navy plans also with F-35-B for our LHD's.

So in my opinion: Turkey needs F-35 more than S-400 which by the way never proved itself in combat.

Q: Is it allowed to use it's own Software/codes for the F-35?

F it we saw it in the yom kippur war how many fighter jets were shot down by sam's it's not all about airsuperiority anymore!
Serbia shot down a f-117 nighthawk in 1999 with a S-125 Neva Pechora a 60s SAM if this aircraft wouldn't have existed the rest of other stealth planes in the US Air force would not exist today it was the first stealth plane in the world were other stealth planes developed from.

 

[BordoEnes]

F-35. The B version has no competition as of now so its irreplacable for our light aircraft carriers.

 

[XDescendantX]

S-400. That way you can shoot down the F-35 and have both.

 

[Swordbreaker12]

S-400. That way you can shoot down the F-35 and have both.

For me personally it's not a good mix

 

[Zhukov]

Is this even a Question?
Perhaps only for those who still see Russia in Shadow of Soviet Union can think of these VS Questions.
They should try to go for both. And resolve this issue diplomatically. For choosing between Russia and USA. Turkey is way too developed and integrated into the developed world to choose Russia over USA.
USA these days have very very bad and reactive foreign policy. Feeling threatened from defense industry of a country with Economy of just another European country and Defense budget Less then Saudi Arabia and Putting Sanctions on Countries for it is Utter Rubbish and Disgusting Behavior by USA. Russia is very sensible and Responsible Country on International Stage comparing its Economy, Power Projection and Sphere Influence.
Either way Turkey should avoid a confrontation with the Mad Dog US at all cost even if it means Pardoning from Russian Weapons. At-least Wait until this stupid Trump Administration is Gone