What's new

Turkey's Erdogan: Never a "yes" man

Sorry for distrupting but who says Turkey is interested only in Arabs? i wonder who makes this dark propaganda. Turkish foreign policy has changed in last years but the direction of our policies is not only towards middle east. we improve our commercial activities with Africa, Central asia and even with south america. The new turkish foreign policy aims to diversify options on a global scale.

EU countries started to blame us with leading to extremism. i wonder who believes in this but everything we do is to earn more and more money... if you dont have a proper economy, if you dont have businessmen working on global scale, can we say that you can be a global gamer?

in england, businessmen from S. arabia and other gulf countries buying football teams, they become sponsor of some NGO activities but anybody doesnt blame england with switching sides. But when a few men from s. arabia intends to do a few commercial activity, EU members blame Turkey with cooperating extremist countries.

You have been copying and pasting articles from Neo-con supported survey groups. i didnt say anything to this so far but its enough i think. Anybody is not doing anything different here. EU countries keep acting their double sided play,they perform their Hypocite policies and Turkey is trying to create alternatives for development and keep up the economical boost.

Bush and Head of S. arabia state were walking hand to hand; they were hugging eachother, bush was sitting on their diwan just like a nomad. but anybody didnt blame him and usa with switching something...

There is onething in this world. and thats wealth... if Turkey was one of other muslim countries, if it was poor and extremely conservative; which muslim country would want to see Turkey as a close trade partner and even as an ally???

Turkey had been cheated by so called western allies for dozens of times. would you want me to write them here one by one Dear Sir?

All we do is to try to improve our economy, our diplomacy and our effect in the region. please tell me, can Turkey do the thing westerns blame us for, with its present economical strength?

if you are poor, if you are weak, any arabic state doesnt give you even a ''greeting'' nevermind the leadership of the ME or trade right.

As simple as that. First economy and wealth.
Regards
I never meant that. My apologies if this was the interpretation most members got. I meant to say that such actions only tarnish Turkey's wonderful image as a modern, tolerant and moderate country. Now sending aid was not extremist in itself certainly not, but it hadn't been happening for more than 4 decades and therefore this is what makes the situation politically intense. This is all I intended to say.

Despite your military allegiance to NATO, I believe in most cases, Turkey has been an excellent neutral country in terms of non-military related politics. It has earned its position as an influential player.

And since you did offer to educate me on matters where European Union has cheated Turkey in, then please do post the links and I'd be glad to learn more about how Turks feel cheated.

Thank you in advance for the offer.
 
Dear Parashuram1;
i m sorry if i overreacted but these days everybody whom i talk from european countries(even from russia) tells me that turkey is changing its direction. For God's sake :) there is not something changing here. only one thing has changed here, and thats ''we dont believe in EU membership anymore.''
But we will keep the talks with EU and go on making the reforms. we have been trying to be EU member since for 40 years and this is not something tactical. Turkey is a member of NATO and we see ourselves as a part of EU. i should remind you that untill 18. century, european history was turkish history. Turkey is a Euroasian country. also we are middleeastern. this makes us different i guess.

Now i have a limited time Dear Sir. but i promise to share what i owe you here under this thread as soon as possible. i guess it will be a long text. (i guess tomorrow evening)

Regards
 
* On November 4, 2009, David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom, during a visit to Turkey underlined the UK government's support for Turkey's bid to join the European Union, saying: "I am very clear that Turkish accession to the EU is important and will be of huge benefit to both Turkey and the EU."

* Current French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, unlike his predecessor, opposes the entrance of Turkey in the European Union, but wishes Turkey to remain a partner of Europe. He has also often mentioned geographical reasons to justify his position, thus saying "I do not believe that Turkey belongs to Europe, and for a simple reason: because it is in Asia Minor. What I wish to offer Turkey is a true partnership with Europe, but not integration into Europe".

* German Chancellor Angela Merkel has advocated a privileged partnership and has opposed full membership of Turkey to the EU. In 2006, Chancellor Merkel said "Turkey could be in deep, deep trouble when it comes to its aspirations to join the European Union" regarding its refusal to open up its ports to European Union member Cyprus.

* On April 5, 2009, Spanish Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero stated that "Spain firmly supports Turkey’s candidature to enter the EU, provided it meets the necessary requisites." Zapatero told Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan that "Spain’s position is 'firm, clear and solid' in favour of Turkey’s candidature to enter the European Union." "We must 'open the door' for Turkey to enter 'the EU peace and cooperation project', provided it meets the necessary requisites for integration," Zapatero added; before remarking that "Turkey’s entrance is good both for Turkey and for the EU."

* On November 13, 2008, the Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi urged the EU to "accelerate Turkey's membership bid" and pledged to "help Ankara gain accession." Berlusconi pledged to "try and win over those EU members resistant to Turkey’s application." "Regarding the opposition shown by certain countries – some of which are important countries – I am confident we will be able to convince them of the strategic importance of Turkey, within the European framework, as a country bordering the Middle East," Berlusconi declared.

* On November 5, 2008, the Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini declared that "the Italian government will support the inclusion of Turkey in the European Union with all its strength." He indicated that "the Italian Parliament will give a 'clear word' when necessary with the 'enormous majority' of the Berlusconi government, but also with 'the opposition' which it knows it can count on." "Turkey's inclusion will not be a problem, but it will be part of the solution for strengthening Europe in relations with other countries, such as the Caucasus region" he added.

* On May 29, 2009, the French President Nicolas Sarkozy cancelled a visit to Sweden scheduled for June 2, 2009, in order to avoid a clash on the question of Turkey's EU membership just a few days before the European elections and a month before Stockholm took over the EU's rotating presidency. The French President, who is an outspoken opponent of Turkey's entry to the European Union, did not want to highlight the strong divergence of views on this topic with Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt, the French newspaper Le Monde reported on May 28, 2009. Sweden favours further EU enlargement, including to Turkey.

Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt told the French newspaper Le Figaro that "the EU has 'a strategic interest' in Turkey's EU integration and warned against 'closing the door' to Ankara." "If we judge Cyprus to be in Europe, although it is an island along Syria's shores, it is hard not to consider that Turkey is in Europe," Mr Bildt said, referring to Mr Sarkozy's repeated statements that Turkey is not a European country and does not belong to Europe. In the Le Figaro interview, Mr Bildt said: "My vision of Europe is not as defensive as I observe it with other people." The French president's trip to Sweden was cancelled the day after the interview was published. "Nicolas Sarkozy cancelled his visit because of the Carl Bildt interview," one French minister told Le Monde. "The president wanted to avoid a clash on Turkey and did not want that his visit to Sweden interferes with the elections [five days later]."

* On June 28, 2007, Portuguese State Secretary for European Affairs Manuel Lobo Antunes affirmed that "Turkey should join the EU once it has successfully completed membership talks, which are likely to run for at least a decade."[93] "We think it is important and fundamental that Turkey joins the European Union once it fulfils all the conditions and all the criteria," he said, adding that "Portugal aims in the next six months to 'put the process on track'."

* European Commission President José Manuel Barroso said that Turkey is not ready to join the EU "tomorrow nor the day after tomorrow", but its membership negotiations should continue. He also called on France and other member states to honour the decision to continue accession talks, describing it as a matter of credibility for the Union.

* The EU Progress Report from 9 November 2005 stated that:

"On 29 July 2005, Turkey signed the Additional Protocol adapting the EC Turkey Association Agreement to the accession of 10 new countries on 1 May 2004. At the same time, Turkey issued a declaration stating that signature of the Additional Protocol did not amount to recognition of the Republic of Cyprus. On 21 September, the EU adopted a counter-declaration indicating that Turkey’s declaration was unilateral, did not form part of the Protocol and had no legal effect on Turkey’s obligations under the Protocol. The EU declaration stressed that recognition of all Member States was a necessary component of the accession process. It also underlined the need for supporting the efforts of the Secretary General of the UN to bring about a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem which would contribute to peace, stability and harmonious relations in the region."


* In November 2006, the European Commission members decided to suspend parts of the talks with Turkey regarding accession, as Turkish officials said that they will not open Turkish ports to traffic from Republic of Cyprus until the EU eases its embargo on Turkish-controlled northern Cyprus.

* In November 2009 Greek President Karolos Papoulias stated that he would not support Turkey's accession "as long as Ankara behaves as an occupying force in Cyprus."

Wikipedia
 
if erdogun undermines turkish secular values and tries ti change the turkey direction, what will be the reaction of the turkish ppl??? i wanna know from turkish friends here!!!
 
if erdogun undermines turkish secular values and tries ti change the turkey direction, what will be the reaction of the turkish ppl??? i wanna know from turkish friends here!!!

Well Erdogan is not supported by the younger generation of turks mainly the University students and such. Obviously secular minded people don't support him. Large portion of his supporters come from more religious provinces in Turkey. You want see people living in Izmir support him anytime soon :lol:.

Another problem stemmed from the CHP's previous leader which was a person many CHP supporters were split on. Even some voting for the MHP and AKP. Now that he is no longer their leader this new guy was exactly what the CHP needed. As he is the whole reason behind why CHP members support the party.

That is my take on it.
 
Last edited:
The AKP (Adalet ve Kalkınma Partisi i.e. Justice and Development Party) is now most popular party and has little competition. The CHP (Cumhuriyet Halk Partisi i.e. Republican People's Party) is the main opposition. CHP recently elected Kemal Kılıçdaoğlu and regained some support but Kılıçdaoğlu belongs to Alevi Kurd background that may prove to be his liability. The real threat for AKP comes from competition and tension between Turkish President Abdullah Gul and Prime Minister Recep Erdoğan both belonging to AKP. The only way AKP will lose if it starts a interparty civil war between its two leaders.
 
if erdogun undermines turkish secular values and tries ti change the turkey direction, what will be the reaction of the turkish ppl??? i wanna know from turkish friends here!!!
constitution prevents, if he tries such a stupid thing, supreme court closes his party long before people cut his throat or army put him to gallows

but i like to see him swinging on rope it could be very good entertainment :)
 
Dear Parashuram1;
i m sorry if i overreacted but these days everybody whom i talk from european countries(even from russia) tells me that turkey is changing its direction. For God's sake :) there is not something changing here. only one thing has changed here, and thats ''we dont believe in EU membership anymore.''
But we will keep the talks with EU and go on making the reforms. we have been trying to be EU member since for 40 years and this is not something tactical. Turkey is a member of NATO and we see ourselves as a part of EU. i should remind you that untill 18. century, european history was turkish history. Turkey is a Euroasian country. also we are middleeastern. this makes us different i guess.

Now i have a limited time Dear Sir. but i promise to share what i owe you here under this thread as soon as possible. i guess it will be a long text. (i guess tomorrow evening)

Regards
Dear Admiral,

Appreciate the polite response you have given. I am very much clear on what Turkey's stand today as a nation is without caring much about what Mr. Erdogan thinks about his country's outlook. In fact, if you see around there are a lot of neutral countries around the world that are living peacefully without any hassles.While having a military alliance has a lot of benefits as we have seen in the transformation of Turkish military doctrine, equipment and war strategies, but as with any other alliance this also has the demerit of Turkey getting sucked into combat; Afghanistan is a fine example.

While I personally whole-heartedly support the Afghanistan war because of the Taliban and their threat to everyone around them, I also intend to refer to the military operations that Turkey was bound to carry out such as Iraq and Kosovo. I am sure Turks hold nothing personal against Balkans region too much unless today's modern youth want to dwell in the past which I am sure they don't.

But still you were forced to. Not joining any alliance has a lot of benefits and I think Turkey's strategic position, its emerging economic status and its high educational standards as well as cultural background automatically makes it a country that the world would come to for business and trade. As a neutral country's national myself, I never supported any alliance in specific and it would be nice to see Turkey follow the suit.

However, I do hope that a more stern Kemalist approach is seen towards politics than the colour that Erdogan has recently painted your country with.
 
constitution prevents, if he tries such a stupid thing, supreme court closes his party long before people cut his throat or army put him to gallows

but i like to see him swinging on rope it could be very good entertainment :)

Day by day he is making that more and more difficult. Now the U.S. is seriously taking a look at Turkish ties. Is Iran worth more to us then the U.S. ? I think not.

Erdogan is digging his own grave at the same time though. The second the U.S. decides to degrade ties with Turkey is when people will rise up and destroy him and his party. Your also right he is fun to watch sometimes but now we need to move him along and get a CHP guy in there.
 
Turkey and Israel: The broken alliance

By Sami Moubayed

DAMASCUS - Depending on who one listens to in the Middle East, Turkish-Israeli relations are either very much repairable or have reached a point of no return after the killing of nine Turkish citizens on board the Free Gaza flotilla off the shores of Gaza last month.

A best-case scenario would be for Israel to try and fix the mess resulting from the affair through a basket of political gestures, while a worst-case scenario would be war between the two countries.

War, though, is not on anybody's mind except for a few sensational journalists in the Arab world.

Some in Israel, like Alon Liel, who for many years served as his country's ambassador to Turkey, are nevertheless worried about where things might lead. After the flotilla affair Liel said, "They have already called the Turkish ambassador back to Ankara. I hope very much that this incident will not lead to breaking the diplomatic link. This link has existed for 61 years without interruption and it will be a very severe blow to Israel's international standing if this link will be broken."

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman spoke with a very different tone, furious with his government for releasing the prisoners onboard the flotilla without bringing them before an Israeli court, and saying Israel was too "soft" on Turkey. His stance was challenged by Defense Minister Ehud Barak, who raised a red flag that common ground between two countries that had been allied since 1948 had disappeared.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is definitely in no mood to reconcile. He cut short a visit to Chile, withdrew his ambassador from Israel and cancelled joint military drills with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). In angry statements from the Turkish parliament, he accused Israel of "state terrorism", while bidding farewell during a speech in the Turkish city of Konya to the Turkish civilians killed onboard the Mavi Marmara. Erdogan said, "If the entire world has turned its back on the Palestinians, Turkey will never turn its back on Jerusalem and the Palestinians."

He said the two peoples were bound by destiny - "a destiny that binds Jerusalem, Ramallah, Hebron and Bethlehem to Ankara," saying "if the world becomes silent over Gaza, Turkey will never be silent."


As far as the Israelis are concerned, these are strong words that echo what has been said in the past, by Egyptian president Gamal Abdul Nasser in the 1950s and 1960s, and by Hasan Nasrallah of Hezbollah since the mid-1990s.

Annoyed as the Israelis are, two weeks into the crisis they have still not recalled their ambassador from Ankara, nor have they called off a military deal with the Turkish army worth US$180 million.

The Turkish parliament has for its part, however, called for an overall review of political, economic, and military ties between Turkey and Israel. Turkish President Abdullah Gul, speaking to the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia on June 8, said, "Turkey will not let Israel escape its responsibilities," noting that the Israeli government must feel the pain of its mistake over the Gaza flotilla incident.

One creative way to solve the crisis would be to lift the two-year siege of Gaza, which Erdogan time and again has said is crucial for any improvement of relations with the Israelis.

Given the mood in Israel, that seems unlikely in the near future, despite pressure from the Quartet - the United Nations, the United States, the European Union and Russia - and international community to gradually reduce the siege with a view to ending and replacing it with international observers.

There are heavyweights in Israel like Ambassador Liel who are pushing strongly for jumpstarting peace talks between Syria and Israel, under Turkish supervision, which had been called off by Damascus in December 2008, during the IDF war on Gaza.

Since then, both the Syrians and Turks have said that they are ready for indirect talks, but Israel has repeatedly said no, claiming that the Turks are no longer honest brokers in the Middle East for having clearly taken sides with Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria.

If Israel accepts the Turkish mediation role - something that Ankara has strongly pushed for since 2008, then boiling tension would certainly soften. More importantly, Israel needs a major public relations campaign to help polish its image in the eyes of ordinary Turks, who whether Islamist or secular are appalled by what happened with the the Gaza flotilla.

Those who realize how important trade, for example, has been between both countries are pushing in this direction from within the Israeli business community. Bilateral trade between both countries reached US$2.5 billion in 2009, regardless of the political tension resulting from the war on Gaza and Erdogan's famous outburst against Israeli President Shimon Peres at Davos.
Sources in Turkey are now saying that their government is no longer interested in extending the Russian Blue Stream pipeline, a major trans-Black Sea pipeline that carries natural gas from Russia to Turkey.

Turkey and Israel have a long history of secretive military cooperation going back to the 1950s. Turkish commentators used to refer to it as "the ghostly alliance". In 1996, the two countries signed an agreement allowing Israeli pilots to train in Turkish airspace in return for which Israel refurbished Turkish military aircraft and provided hi-tech equipment. Since Erdogan's rise to power in 2002, the influence of the Turkish military over the country's civilian leadership has declined.

Simply put, although military relations have not been severed, political relations are damaged almost beyond repair at this stage. The Turks no longer trust Israel. It would be a mistake to trace the entire crisis to the flotilla incident, however, since signs of a confidence collapse between both countries have been evident for nearly two years.

In late 2008, when mediating indirect talks between Syria and Israel, for example, Erdogan was certain that a breakthrough was within reach but was worried by all talk of an upcoming confrontation in Gaza.

Israeli premier Ehud Olmert arrived in Turkey on December 22 and was asked by his Turkish counterpart if there was any merit to these "rumors". Olmert said that war would not break out in Gaza. Five days later it did, prompting Erdogan to snap in front of Peres in January 2009: "President Peres, you are old, and your voice is loud out of a guilty conscience. When it comes to killing, you know very well how to kill. I know well how you hit and kill children on beaches."

An easy argument would be that the Israelis no longer trust the Turks. The Israeli media have been filled with stories about how Erdogan received Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal in Turkey in 2004 and yet refused to meet then-prime minister Ariel Sharon. They point to all the statements fired off by senior Turkish officials and the Turkish media against Israel since mid-2008, arguing that Turkey needs to change before any real improvement takes place.

Erdogan has been in power for seven years. Anybody who expects him to change - or to pursue a path vis-a-vis Israel that looks like anything related to moves taken by predecessors like Jalal Bayar, for example, have no understanding either of the Turkish prime minister, his Justice and Development Party, or of the 80 million people he represents.

As long as Erdogan is in power, Turkish-Israeli relations as we know them are history. Particular gestures, like lifting the siege of Gaza or jumpstarting talks with Syria, could help heal some of the wounds, but the psychological and moral damage caused by the blood of nine Turkish civilians is not likely to heal while Benjamin Netanyahu is in power in Israel.

Sami Moubayed is editor-in-chief of Forward Magazine in Syria.
(Copyright 2010 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
 
Turkish PM an enemy: Israeli minister

AGENCIES, Jun 20, 2010, 06.14am IST

JERUSALEM: A top Israeli minister on Saturday dubbed Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan as “enemy”, but said it has no problem with the Turkish people amid a diplomatic row between the Jewish nation and Ankar over the bloody raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.

“The Turkish people aren’t the enemy, but Erdogan is Israel’s enemy,” Israel’s tourism minister Stas Misezhnikov said.

He was responding to the Turkish premier’s earlier comments that Ankara’s problem is with the Netanyahu-led government and not the people in the Jewish nation.

Turkish PM an enemy: Israeli minister - Rest of World - World - The Times of India
 
Back
Top Bottom