TURKEY’S 2030 DEFENCE GOALS

[HannibalBarca]

India got no first use policy.. that is why we are building conventional capabilities but Pakistan into nukes..

So? pakistan will win, india surrender? is that right?

 

[Zarvan]

Turkey needs to add Ballistic Missiles and Long Range Cruise Missiles in this list and also hopefully become a Nuclear Power also.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Turkey needs to add Ballistic Missiles and Long Range Cruise Missiles in this list and also hopefully become a Nuclear Power also.

That's a lots of "needs" as for ballistic and cruise, it's coming in the near future since they're on it already. as for Nuclear not rly happening... only if... a US-Israeli op like nearly 50 years back happen...
but this time btw turkey-pakistan (most likely.. if only it's happening)

 

[danger007]

So? pakistan will win, india surrender? is that right?

Congrats for retard logic 101.. We are not building hundreds of nukes to keep china at bay.. but we are just improving the minimal credible deterrence.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Congrats for retard logic 101.. We are not building hundreds of nukes to keep china at bay.. but we are just improving the minimal credible deterrence.

Why are you like that... this is not a tricky question.. I was just testing your sanity upon the use of nuclear power, when you country is faced to loose... Why almost all indians (at least those i read here) behave like that...it was just a simple question...No need to humiliate yourself and using insult to make your point...

a yes or no would have been a good answer...

 

[danger007]

Why are you like that... this is not a tricky question.. I was just testing your sanity upon the use of nuclear power, when you country is faced to loose... Why almost all indians behave like that...it was just a simple question...No need to humiliate yourself and using insult to make your point...

Haha.. I answered you.. we have no first use policy. May be your brain unable to understand.. They can't afford another war with India.. they were unable to take small chunk of land.. let alone invasion..

 

[HannibalBarca]

Haha.. I answered you.. we have no first use policy. May be your brain unable to understand.. They can't afford another war with India.. they were unable to take small chunk of land.. let alone invasion..

So you surrender? I'll take that as a yes then...
Best regards.

ps: whatever there is or not an invasion wasn't the point...but the use of that "thingy"

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Turkey needs to add Ballistic Missiles and Long Range Cruise Missiles in this list and also hopefully become a Nuclear Power also.

In Turkey's case developing and maintaining ICBMs don't make much sense without nukes or another WMD warhead (chemical/biological). Since Turkey doesn't have a nuclear weapons program or a chemical/biological weapons program, an ICBM is highly useless. 99.9% of the deterrence value of an ICBM is in the WMD warhead it carries.

 

[BARS]

In Turkey's case developing and maintaining ICBMs don't make much sense without nukes or another WMD warhead (chemical/biological). Since Turkey doesn't have a nuclear weapons program or a chemical/biological weapons program, an ICBM is highly useless. 99.9% of the deterrence value of an ICBM is in the WMD warhead it carries.

You are right we dont have those weapon programs.

But for example we have "The Biosecurity Level 4 (BSL-4) laboratory the "Maximum Disclosure Laboratory"" so that means we can do stuff if we want to.

For example in 1961, at the Çekmece Nuclear Research and Training Center, an experimental reactor was operated at 1 MW power for training and basic research. Things related nuclear is studied in Turkey since 1955. We have some know how.

For Akkuyu we agreed with the Russian public company Atomstroyexport (a subsidiary of Atomenergoprom of ROSATOM). As part of the deal we will not give the stuff our nuclear power plant produces whether it is waste or energy back to Russians.

So what can we do with the things our nuclear power plant produces?

Less enriched uranium, Medium enriched uranium (which we can use for Civil / military research) and Highly enriched uranium. The most important one here is highly enriched uranium. Most certainly Turkey will use it for it's aircraft carrier and ballistic submarines. Aircraft carrier and nuclear powered ballistic submarines will be our excuse to produce highly enriched uranium. That means you can secretly make an atomic bomb too.

ICBM isnt a must for atomic bombs. Load it to a plane and deliver it. With exception of atomic bombs there is nuclear powered warmachines and advanced research in Turkey's destiny.

As for the ICBM we have the cover of satallite delivery capability. We can make it...
We can use ICBMs for MOABs (Massive Ordnance Air Blast). They have good enough blasts.

We signed Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, NNWS parties to the NPT agree not to "receive", "manufacture", or "acquire" nuclear weapons or to "seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons" (Article II). But can you tell me which country on earth will truly follow it?

We also have signed Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty, so we cant test our atomic bombs.

Article X allows a state to leave the treaty if "extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country", giving three months' (ninety days') notice. The state is required to give reasons for leaving the NPT in this notice.

NATO states argue that when there is a state of "general war" the treaty no longer applies, effectively allowing the states involved to leave the treaty with no notice.

Simply future will tell. As for aircraf carier and ballistic submarine with a reactor .

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Thanks for the post @BARS, it was a nice read. But I want to point out a few things.

1. Per our agreement with Russia regarding the Akkuyu project, Rosatomstroy will take back any depleted uranium fuel rods. They'll be responsible for the safe shipping, recycling and storage of Akkuyu's spent fuel. This was part of the deal all along.
2. Because the Akkuyu NPP uses a pressurized water reactor design as opposed to a heavy water (deuterium) one, we cannot use it to produce plutonium; a must for any serious nuclear weapons program. Had we gone with, say, a CANDU type design like Pakistan, that would've been possible. Plutonium isn't required to build an atom bomb, but it helps greatly.
3. Turkey hasn't planned a uranium-enrichment facility project or earmarked a government budget for it, despite two projected NPPs. At this time we're not even serious about manufacturing our own nuclear fuel rods for peaceful civilian power generation purposes, let alone high-level enrichment for weapons purposes.
4. We don't have any nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines and likely will not ever have them because (a) their astronomic costs, (b) the lack of a realistic need for them, and (c) we likely won't be allowed to. A nuclear submarine necessitates having ICBMs, it's pretty pointless to have nuclear subs without ICBMs as diesel submarines are more suited towards the littoral waters that Turkey tends to operate in. ICBM implies a blue water navy and global interests. And ICBMs themselves are pointless without nukes.
5. While I admit that Fuel-Air bombs like MOAB, FOAB, etc make a decent bang, they're literally nothing compared to a nuke and they're extremely heavy and impractical for use aboard ICBMs.

There are two reasons to spend time and money on ICBM technology:

--> Put a WMD warhead on it, or
--> Turn it into a satellite launcher.

Turkey currently has no interest in the first, but luckily Roketsan has been tasked by the SSM/SSIK to work on the second.

 

[BARS]

Thanks for the post @BARS, it was a nice read. But I want to point out a few things.

1. Per our agreement with Russia regarding the Akkuyu project, Rosatomstroy will take back any depleted uranium fuel rods. They'll be responsible for the safe shipping, recycling and storage of Akkuyu's spent fuel. This was part of the deal all along.
2. Because the Akkuyu NPP uses a pressurized water reactor design as opposed to a heavy water (deuterium) one, we cannot use it to produce plutonium; a must for any serious nuclear weapons program. Had we gone with, say, a CANDU type design like Pakistan, that would've been possible. Plutonium isn't required to build an atom bomb, but it helps greatly.
3. Turkey hasn't planned a uranium-enrichment facility project or earmarked a government budget for it, despite two projected NPPs. At this time we're not even serious about manufacturing our own nuclear fuel rods for peaceful civilian power generation purposes, let alone high-level enrichment for weapons purposes.
4. We don't have any nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines and likely will not ever have them because (a) their astronomic costs, (b) the lack of a realistic need for them, and (c) we likely won't be allowed to. A nuclear submarine necessitates having ICBMs, it's pretty pointless to have nuclear subs without ICBMs as diesel submarines are more suited towards the littoral waters that Turkey tends to operate in. ICBM implies a blue water navy and global interests. And ICBMs themselves are pointless without nukes.
5. While I admit that Fuel-Air bombs like MOAB, FOAB, etc make a decent bang, they're literally nothing compared to a nuke and they're extremely heavy and impractical for use aboard ICBMs.

There are two reasons to spend time and money on ICBM technology:

--> Put a WMD warhead on it, or
--> Turn it into a satellite launcher.

Turkey currently has no interest in the first, but luckily Roketsan has been tasked by the SSM/SSIK to work on the second.

Currently i am too busy to confirm informations i did share. Thank you for correcting mistakes i did unintentionaly. I have read too many article, whatched too many stuff now i dont what is truth. I just wanna point out why our counter part to nuclear power plant projects have a negative look to it (not overall, just points they see as negative). Also world economy isnt a fixed economy, it is growing. With technology prices coming down. Mine is a whishfull thinking, those things what i desire for my country, arguable that they are plauseble.

 

[matmat26]

U214 Submarine , LHD, TF2000, Class Frigate, TFX, TX, MPT 55, KNT-76

Göktürk 5, Göktürk 6, Hisar A / O / U, TRJ-328, T-625, Light Heli, Gezgin, Atmaca, ..

Perhaps the multi-headed ICBM, Ship fighter missile.

 

[Baybars Han]

U214 Submarine , LHD, TF2000, Class Frigate, TFX, TX, MPT 55, KNT-76

Göktürk 5, Göktürk 6, Hisar A / O / U, TRJ-328, T-625, Light Heli ..

Perhaps the multi-headed ICBM

The rifles are easy. The main one are

Possible start of Milden(new submarine)
Hisar U( Long range air defence)
UAV (apparently called akinci)like reaper
TFX
Long range cruise missiles(over 1000km)
TF2000 with Aselsan AESA etc
National Engine for tank, Uav etc completed

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

You are right we dont have those weapon programs.

But for example we have "The Biosecurity Level 4 (BSL-4) laboratory the "Maximum Disclosure Laboratory"" so that means we can do stuff if we want to.

For example in 1961, at the Çekmece Nuclear Research and Training Center, an experimental reactor was operated at 1 MW power for training and basic research. Things related nuclear is studied in Turkey since 1955. We have some know how.

For Akkuyu we agreed with the Russian public company Atomstroyexport (a subsidiary of Atomenergoprom of ROSATOM). As part of the deal we will not give the stuff our nuclear power plant produces whether it is waste or energy back to Russians.

So what can we do with the things our nuclear power plant produces?

Less enriched uranium, Medium enriched uranium (which we can use for Civil / military research) and Highly enriched uranium. The most important one here is highly enriched uranium. Most certainly Turkey will use it for it's aircraft carrier and ballistic submarines. Aircraft carrier and nuclear powered ballistic submarines will be our excuse to produce highly enriched uranium. That means you can secretly make an atomic bomb too.

ICBM isnt a must for atomic bombs. Load it to a plane and deliver it. With exception of atomic bombs there is nuclear powered warmachines and advanced research in Turkey's destiny.

As for the ICBM we have the cover of satallite delivery capability. We can make it...
We can use ICBMs for MOABs (Massive Ordnance Air Blast). They have good enough blasts.

We signed Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, NNWS parties to the NPT agree not to "receive", "manufacture", or "acquire" nuclear weapons or to "seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons" (Article II). But can you tell me which country on earth will truly follow it?

We also have signed Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty, so we cant test our atomic bombs.

Article X allows a state to leave the treaty if "extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country", giving three months' (ninety days') notice. The state is required to give reasons for leaving the NPT in this notice.

NATO states argue that when there is a state of "general war" the treaty no longer applies, effectively allowing the states involved to leave the treaty with no notice.

Simply future will tell. As for aircraf carier and ballistic submarine with a reactor .

Thanks for the post @BARS, it was a nice read. But I want to point out a few things.

1. Per our agreement with Russia regarding the Akkuyu project, Rosatomstroy will take back any depleted uranium fuel rods. They'll be responsible for the safe shipping, recycling and storage of Akkuyu's spent fuel. This was part of the deal all along.
2. Because the Akkuyu NPP uses a pressurized water reactor design as opposed to a heavy water (deuterium) one, we cannot use it to produce plutonium; a must for any serious nuclear weapons program. Had we gone with, say, a CANDU type design like Pakistan, that would've been possible. Plutonium isn't required to build an atom bomb, but it helps greatly.
3. Turkey hasn't planned a uranium-enrichment facility project or earmarked a government budget for it, despite two projected NPPs. At this time we're not even serious about manufacturing our own nuclear fuel rods for peaceful civilian power generation purposes, let alone high-level enrichment for weapons purposes.
4. We don't have any nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines and likely will not ever have them because (a) their astronomic costs, (b) the lack of a realistic need for them, and (c) we likely won't be allowed to. A nuclear submarine necessitates having ICBMs, it's pretty pointless to have nuclear subs without ICBMs as diesel submarines are more suited towards the littoral waters that Turkey tends to operate in. ICBM implies a blue water navy and global interests. And ICBMs themselves are pointless without nukes.
5. While I admit that Fuel-Air bombs like MOAB, FOAB, etc make a decent bang, they're literally nothing compared to a nuke and they're extremely heavy and impractical for use aboard ICBMs.

There are two reasons to spend time and money on ICBM technology:

--> Put a WMD warhead on it, or
--> Turn it into a satellite launcher.

Turkey currently has no interest in the first, but luckily Roketsan has been tasked by the SSM/SSIK to work on the second.

^^


See Old Links :

https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-nukes.440998/#post-8503100

https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-e...o-boost-deterrence.418361/page-2#post-8163554

https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-e...o-boost-deterrence.418361/page-3#post-8167244



Turkey, Ukraine To Develop, Build Satellites (DefenseNews April 12, 2016)


Cyclone-4 (Tsyklon-4)












https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-e...o-boost-deterrence.418361/page-3#post-8169847





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[Pax Ottomana]

Thanks for the update @Bubblegum Crisis

I wanted to quote this important bit from: http://www.edam.org.tr/en/File?id=1157

"However, Ankara has
taken no definitive steps to develop fuel cycle technologies
and is far more likely to rely on
fuel guarantees for the foreseeable future."

It pretty much summarizes where Turkey currently stands. Turkey wants to diversify its electrical power protection by adding nuclear power (which is good) but doesn't appear to have any serious, budget-earmarked plans for producing it's own nuclear fuel (which is bad. real bad). The link actually explains how Rosatom (and the Russian nuclear-fuel company TVEL) will provide fuel delivery and recycling services for Turkey. This is what I've been saying all along.

Turkey has to find a way of producing its own nuclear fuel for its own nuclear power plants. Diversification of power sources without indigenous production contributes little (if any) to Turkey's becoming more independent from Russia and Iran, its principle natural gas providers.