Turkey to go ahead with non-NATO-integrated Chinese missile defence

[xenon54 out]

As for your first point, hmmmmmmm....i think you are just being bitter/bias to be honest. Looks like your Turkish pride has been hurt. You say the HQ-9 is not going to be used by the Turkish military?LOOOL Why are they buying it then?

I think he is referring to this.

One of the reasons why we want ToT is to get tech and improve it as we need it just as we did with J600T, Turkey isnt a big sized country like US, China or Russia it doesnt need something like S-400, a patriot like sytem is enough for its size.

Another reason is to decreasing dependance on foreign tech, we managed to increase the domestic military hardware contribution to Armed Forces from ~15% to over 60% today in just a couple decades, the end goal is above 90%.

 

[atatwolf]

Well, you arent that far off from the truth, There has been rumours the Chinese themselves are looking to purchase S-400 from Russia, though so far it is just a rumour, nothing real has come out of it as of yet. But yes overall, Russia still has a wide lead(though its reducing quite fast) militarily over China, Most Chinese weapon systems are derived/have their origin from Russia.

As for your first point, hmmmmmmm....i think you are just being bitter/bias to be honest. Looks like your Turkish pride has been hurt. You say the HQ-9 is not going to be used by the Turkish military?LOOOL Why are they buying it then?
You say they are buying it just to UPGRADE IT??? WTF? Im sure even your Turkish brothers on here are embarassed to see you say such a thing. You mean Turkey is more advanced than China? Bro, please calm down, and be realistic, just because you are biased or hate a country, that doesnt means you should spill out such Funny stuffs on a public forum. Turkey itself is saying they are trying to buld a similar system in 7 years from now(thats being optimistic by the way, we know there are always delays in such sophisticated systems), and by then the Russians, Americans , Chinese would have moved on to better systems(well they have already anyway.lol). Please be more pragmatic and smart enough to know how to downplay/denigrate/troll a country, do it smartly, not the way you just did, else you lose all little credibility you had left.
Still dont understand why members here cant be a little more reasonable/less biased in their views oon here, afterall we are all common civilians not politicians, dont understanbd why we cant get along instead of always holding one particular point of view and being sooo biased against a particular country, i have seen that on here sooo many times . Only a few members on here that i really respect for their valuable/unbiased views.

SAnyway, IF this deal goes through(its still not confirmed though its more than likely now to go through), then it will be a very big advert for Chinese weapons industry, which until now has been stucked on low to mid tier weapons exports. Its indeed the beginning of a long road to China joining the top tier weapon exporters.IMO.

It is not bias to call something what it is. As several people explained. We paid for the tech. This tech will be used as a foundation to upgrade and build new systems on the long term. Of course you can't expect Turkey to be up to par with Russia and the west but I'm sure we will surpass China sooner than later. As you admitted HQ-9 is just Rusian tech and other "Chinese" tech is questionable to say the least. If Turkey can find partner in Europe or Asia (like Japan or Korea), we can build a new system with the best of both worlds plus our own developed tech that we will add. Plus our military products won't be boycotted and we will have huge market. Having a product that is good quality is one thing. Having the credibility and reputation as a seller is another thing.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It is not bias to call something what it is. As several people explained. We paid for the tech. This tech will be used as a foundation to upgrade and build new systems on the long term. Of course you can't expect Turkey to be up to par with Russia and the west but I'm sure we will surpass China sooner than later. As you admitted HQ-9 is just Rusian tech and other "Chinese" tech is questionable to say the least. If Turkey can find partner in Europe or Asia (like Japan or Korea), we can build a new system with the best of both worlds plus our own developed tech that we will add. Plus our military products won't be boycotted and we will have huge market. Having a product that is good quality is one thing. Having the credibility and reputation as a seller is another thing.

Man, then don't buy it, since China has never forced Turkey to pay 3-4 billion to buy the entire package.

 

[mike2000]

Most of them think we pay billions for Air defence system but we are actually paying for ToT, the system itself isnt so important, our only condition from the beginning was to deliver ToT but others just wanna sell only China agreed, not to mention that their bid was the cheapest among all at the first place.

Turkey gave time to others to rethink their offer, if we would get ToT for Aster or Patriot (which i doubt) we would pay even double as much as Chinese offer since we go for western tech wherever possible but they probably wont accept ToT.

China came up with an unbeatable offer i dont know why Chinese act here as if they ripped us off when they gave the cheapest offer so far, i dont get the logic here to be honest.

Agreed completely with you on this especially the bold part. Well the Chinese members here acting as if they ripped Turkey off is mainly due to ego, since they want to show/prove that China is a top dog, not knowing that Turkey choosed this sytem mainly because the U.S/west rejected Turkeys offer for complete tech transfer their our more advanced air defence systems, and yes if the U.S/west had offered even twice the price the chinese offered with full TOT, no doubt Turkey would have choosed the patriot/European Just because they MIGHT have gotten a big military deal, shouldnt get up their head, if the west/U.S/Russia was to act the same way everytime they got a big deal, then we would have been mad longggg time ago. system. So chinese members here need to calm down and come back to reality/their senses.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Agreed completely with you on this especially the bold part. Well the Chinese members here acting as if they ripped Turkey off is mainly due to ego, since they want to show/prove that China is a top dog, not knowing that Turkey choosed this sytem mainly because the U.S/west rejected Turkeys offer for complete tech transfer their our more advanced air defence systems, and yes if the U.S/west had offered even twice the price the chinese offered with full TOT, no doubt Turkey would have choosed the patriot/European Just because they MIGHT have gotten a big military deal, shouldnt get up their head, if the west/U.S/Russia was to act the same way everytime they got a big deal, then we would have been mad longggg time ago. system. So chinese members here need to calm down and come back to reality/their senses.

Frankly, selling Turkey the SAM system is just the ice on the cake.

Even it doesn't become successful, it won't stop our momentum.

You guys seem to exaggerate the importance of this deal for us.

 

[mike2000]

It is not bias to call something what it is. As several people explained. We paid for the tech. This tech will be used as a foundation to upgrade and build new systems on the long term. Of course you can't expect Turkey to be up to par with Russia and the west but I'm sure we will surpass China sooner than later. As you admitted HQ-9 is just Rusian tech and other "Chinese" tech is questionable to say the least. If Turkey can find partner in Europe or Asia (like Japan or Korea), we can build a new system with the best of both worlds plus our own developed tech that we will add. Plus our military products won't be boycotted and we will have huge market. Having a product that is good quality is one thing. Having the credibility and reputation as a seller is another thing.

You will surpass China??? LMAO, first time im hearing a Turk say this. Xenon is this your brother Atatwolf really serious or being sarcastic? because to be honest, i really cant tell.loool You dont even have a better chance of catching up with India, forget about China. To be honest, China is not in your league my Turksih brother, Your league is with Iran, Egypt and and the like.. Believe you me as times goes on, im afraid the Chinese will only get stronger/grow even faster as their own weapons systems mature, in a decade or two from now, they might even be selling you their fighters jets. ahahahahahahaha.

Secondly, yes of course i said many of Chinas weapons systems have their origin in Russia(im always honest, though some Chinese ultra nationalists might try to deny this.lol), since they have been importing mostly Russian weapons since we imposed sanctions on them, so they have followed a short method of copying/reengineering these weapons and improving/upgrading them with their own new platforms. They are able to do this, because they already have a huge industrial base, invest in R& D themselves and a good electronics industry. They already have the base to do this(something all other developing countries out there lack), You should note that copying/reverse engineering isnt an easy stuff as well. It takes knowledge, skill, industry, good manufacturing industry, good educational sector etc to even be able to know how to do it. If it was that easy, then believe me every country in this world will be producing its own weapons. Im not trying to downgrade Turkey, im just saying you shouldnt over estimate your capabilities/potential.

Anyway, every country started from copying to some extent to be honest, the U.S also learned/kidnapped German scientist in the beginning, they also got some tech even from us way back, Russia as well also got lots of help/support/equipment not just from Germany after the woar, but also from the west/U.S when they were fighting the Nazis. In short all major powers started off with copying/learning from others who were more advanced than them. What matters is that you get there, once you are there, every body will even forget you were once behind. This also should serve as a warning to those Chinese members who like to boast about their capabilities, you people still have a long way to go, since you are still in your enfancy in weapons production/maturity. You still need decades(about 2 or 3) before you can really start boasting. Its too early for now. hihihihihihihih.

Frankly, selling Turkey the SAM system is just the ice on the cake.

Even it doesn't become successful, it won't stop our momentum.

You guys seem to exaggerate the importance of this deal for us.

Nope we dont exaggerate. Just look at your Chinese brothers posts on here. They seem to have gone gaga over this news(not that i blame them though).lol.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You will surpass China??? LMAO, first time im hearing a Turk say this. Xenon is this your brother Atatwolf really serious or being sarcastic? because to be honest, i really cant tell.loool You dont even have a better chance of catching up with India, forget about China. To be honest, China is not in your league my Turksih brother, Your league is with Iran, Egypt and and the like.. Believe you me as times goes on, im afraid the Chinese will only get stronger/grow even faster as their own weapons systems mature, in a decade or two from now, they might even be selling you their fighters jets. ahahahahahahaha.

Secondly, yes of course i said many of Chinas weapons systems have their origin in Russia(im always honest, though some Chinese ultra nationalists might try to deny this.lol), since they have been importing mostly Russian weapons since we imposed sanctions on them, so they have followed a short method of copying/reengineering these weapons and improving/upgrading them with their own new platforms. They are able to do this, because they already have a huge industrial base, invest in R& D themselves and a good electronics industry. They already have the base to do this(something all other developing countries out there lack), You should note that copying/reverse engineering isnt an easy stuff as well. It takes knowledge, skill, industry, good manufacturing industry, good educational sector etc to even be able to know how to do it. If it was that easy, then believe me every country in this world will be producing its own weapons. Im not trying to downgrade Turkey, im just saying you shouldnt over estimate your capabilities/potential.

Anyway, every country started from copying to some extent to be honest, the U.S also learned/kidnapped German scientist in the beginning, they also got some tech even from us way back, Russia as well also got lots of help/support/equipment not just from Germany after the woar, but also from the west/U.S when they were fighting the Nazis. In short all major powers started off with copying/learning from others who were more advanced than them. What matters is that you get there, once you are there, every body will even forget you were once behind. This also should serve as a warning to those Chinese members who like to boast about their capabilities, you people still have a long way to go, since you are still in your enfancy in weapons production/maturity. You still need decades(about 2 or 3) before you can really start boasting. Its too early for now. hihihihihihihih.



Nope we dont exaggerate. Just look at your Chinese brothers posts on here. They seem to have gone gaga over this news(not that i blame them though).lol.

HQ-9 is not a copy of S-300, and sure it has absorbed some of its idea, but not an exact copy.

The exact Chinese copy/upgrade of S-300 is HQ-15, not HQ-9.

HongQi-15 (HQ-15) | Missile ThreatMissile Threat

 

[mike2000]

It is not bias to call something what it is.

To be honest, you and i know that you are bias.
I dont blame you though, we are all free to be biased/think what we want to believe. Afterall, im sure you have your reasons.

 

[Hakan]

Turkey may still build its own.

Also it was stated by the government that none of the long range air defence systems will be connected to the NATO network, even if the patriot, or aster was purchased. Im guessing that Turkey will build its own system instead of getting a foreign one. Patriot and aster offers are expensive and there is little to no ToT and if Turkish companies work with the sanctioned chinese company then they may get sanctioned too thus ruining defence industry exports. This is why I believe that Turkey will build its own system if the HISAR-A & HISAR O systems are successful.

 

[BoQ77]

Get it Turkey ! Then reverse engineer it. Then share any vital info with us.

The most inferior aspect is China accept to do anything at any price, so the quality would be adjusted in accordance with price level.

China paid huge money to buy a lot of S-300 and they still rely much on those systems to protect most important site, while HQ-xx not, but for sale.

This doesn't mean Turkey move away from NATO but stand more on their feet. By doing that Turkey would strengthen NATO. Spend more ratio on defense equipments is what US expect from their allies.

USA ever buy Mi-17 helicopters to supply Afghanistan, ... it doesn't mean they want to save Russian factories.

 

[Economic superpower]

Superpower Turkey has to buy weapons from middle powers like China.

How embarrassing

 

[KAL-EL]

Superpower Turkey has to buy weapons from middle powers like China.

How embarrassing

Hello Economic superpower. Are you HongWu?

 

[opruh]

Of course Turkey can't produce high-tech missiles on their own, they will always have to rely on more powerful countries like China.

 

[cnleio]

Superpower Turkey has to buy weapons from middle powers like China.

How embarrassing

The superpower come from real strength & datas, not on the mouth ! LOL ... today China trillions $ of economy doesn't lack 3.4billion USD, but this deal is a good ad for China advanced weapons export to the world. Ths Turkey !

 

[TaiShang]

The superpower come from real strength & datas, not on the mouth ! LOL ... today China trillions $ of economy doesn't lack 3.4billion USD, but this deal is a good ad for China advanced weapons export to the world. Ths Turkey !

The basic rule of trade is: Customer is king They will whine, become smarty, question, get snoopy, snubby and choosy. At the end of the day, if the customer has bought the stuff you want to sell, well, then mission is accomplished.

A long term customer like the Viet above will never understand the power of making and selling. So, like any other faithful, all that remains is to orgasm on behalf of others.