Turkey puts F-35 order on hold over US refusal to share technology

[micro360]

Turkey has announced that it is putting the planned purchase of 100 F-35 fighter jets from the US on hold because the Pentagon refuses to share the source code used in the software designed for the aircraft as well as the codes that might be used externally to activate the planes.

Defense Minister Vecdi Gönül said on Tuesday, following a meeting of the Defense Industry Implementation Committee (SSİK), that the negotiations over the F-35 procurement tender had not yielded “satisfactory results.” He said, “We will evaluate the order in the next meeting, in light of the progress made in the talks by then.” He said much ground had been covered in the talks in terms of technology sharing, but this was not enough for Turkey to accept the jets. He said the costs of the project had also increased but that the Turkish side had failed to secure the source code and the remote flight codes for the planes for which it will be paying $16 billion. Without the source code, Turkish engineers wouldn't be able to make any changes to the software that operates the jets. The external flight codes are equally important, if not more, as they can be used externally to navigate the jets. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Chief of General Staff Gen. Işık Koşaner and Minister Gönül attended Monday's SSİK meeting, which took place at the Undersecretariat for the Defense Industry (SSM) offices.

bit.ly/elhChV

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Don't take it personally. America is doing this to all the partners.

 

[VelocuR]

Why would Turkey surprised? Haven't they learn from F-16s experiences ?

 

[Jigs]

This is a idiotic move plain and simple. Does Vecdi Gönül think Turkey is the only nation not getting source codes ? Every single nation that has ordered the aircraft (including ones that placed greater orders then us) are not getting any source codes. Before announcing stuff like this these people need to look into alternative options and see there is none. J-20 for example wont be ready by 2015 and i doubt china would hand over full technology transfers to a NATO country (not to mention compatibility issues) same goes for Russia. All that is left is the Eurofighter and Rafale which are not on par with the F-35.

I said this a while ago but the Eurofighter (the last offer they made with us should have been taken up which included huge technology transfers of the aircraft) rather then looking to make our own fighter aircraft by 2023. This would have at least given us a fall back aircraft while we demanded source codes. Being stuck with F-16s (be it many will be 50+) while others around us bring in Typhoons,Rafale,Super Hornets, and Silent eagles. Puts us behind.

 

[Saithan]

I think this new move is just a "political" move intended to makes some people in the US to reconsider or even just take up the word "maybe" e.g. "maybe we should offer som tech transfer on an older version" or vice verse.

I don't really expect this to lead to any cancellation of the purchase. On the other hand I do believe that our current goverment is focused on acquiring tech transfer with any deal they make with foreign companies. Which in my opinion is good because it's waste of time to invent the wheel a second time. Of course getting new tech doesn't mean that you get the knowhow or the experience, but at least we won't have to start from scratch.

I almost forgot to mention that all oil-producing nations are either buying or trying to buy new tech to improve their own countries, so I find it natural that Turkey does the same, and yes, we should ask for the source codes. If you look at other nations like the UK and think, "They're not getting the codes, so we probably won't get codes anyway, so why waste time asking". That's the same as admitting defeat without trying.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

why don't the govts make sure what will be and will not be their in the agreements.if they discussed it before the investments for the programme america might have agreed.

 

[Jigs]

I think this new move is just a "political" move intended to makes some people in the US to reconsider or even just take up the word "maybe" e.g. "maybe we should offer som tech transfer on an older version" or vice verse.

I don't really expect this to lead to any cancellation of the purchase. On the other hand I do believe that our current goverment is focused on acquiring tech transfer with any deal they make with foreign companies. Which in my opinion is good because it's waste of time to invent the wheel a second time. Of course getting new tech doesn't mean that you get the knowhow or the experience, but at least we won't have to start from scratch.

I almost forgot to mention that all oil-producing nations are either buying or trying to buy new tech to improve their own countries, so I find it natural that Turkey does the same, and yes, we should ask for the source codes. If you look at other nations like the UK and think, "They're not getting the codes, so we probably won't get codes anyway, so why waste time asking". That's the same as admitting defeat without trying.

I see the point your making. We should at least try however i doubt the prospect of us getting source codes as being a infinite thing. I am sure we will get them eventually like the case with the F-16. We also did land the composite fuselage deal and engine parts for the F-35. So it isn't like we got nothing out of the deal. My most important concern is the replacement of of aging aircraft with modern aircraft in a timely matter. This is an area where we have been falling behind all the time and i hope it changes in the near future.

 

[Lankan Ranger]

 

[Lankan Ranger]

 

[Penguin]

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program is an Internationally oriented program consisting of partnerships with a number of countries. See below for links to the transcripts of the signing ceremonies of the official partnership of each of the programs cooperating partners:

United Kingdom (signed 17 Jan 2001 for $2B)

Italy (signed 24 Jun 2002 for $1B)
Netherlands (signed 17 Jun 2002 for $800M)

Turkey (signed 11 Jun 2002 for $175M)
Canada (signed 7 Feb 2002 for $150M)
Australia* (signed 31 Oct 2002 for $150M)
Denmark (signed 28 May 2002 for $125M)
Norway* (signed 20 Jun 2002 for $125M

http://www.jsf.mil/program/prog_intl.htm

Eight countries have agreed to invest a total of $4.375 billion over 10 years in the $25 billion Joint Strike Fighter program. Britain pledged $2 billion, and is the only "Level I" partner in the program. Italy has pledged $1 billion as a Level II partner, and the Netherlands has also pledged to invest $800 million, also becoming a "Level II" partner. The "Level III" partners include Canada [which pledged $150 million], Denmark [$125 million], Norway [pledged to invest $125 million], and Turkey [pledging $175 million]. Australia has also expressed interest in the program

...

Netherlands
On June 17, 2002, the Netherlands also committed itself to the JSF's system development and demonstration (SDD) phase by exchanging with the Department of Defense memorandum of understanding (MOU) documents. These MOU documents were signed on June 5, 2002, on behalf of the Dutch Cabinet at Soesterberg Airbase (NL) with the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics countersigning the MOU documents in Washington, D.C. on June 10, 2002. As a result, the Netherlands will invest $800 million [€ 848 million] in the SDD effort. The Netherlands has been part of the JSF program since 1997. The Netherlands became the fourth country to join as a JSF SDD phase partner, and the first 'Level 2' partner. The Dutch commitment spans ten years. For the previous two and a half years, the Netherlands had conducted a rigorous technical and financial analysis of potential candidates to replace its F-16s. In both assessments, the JSF ranked first. The Netherlands selected the U.S. plane as the best candidate to replace 85 older aircraft in December 2008

...

Turkey
On July 11, 2002, the Under Secretary for Defense Industries of the Turkish Ministry of Defense signed a $175 million memorandum of understanding (MOU) for Turkish partnership in the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) systems development and demonstration (SDD) phase. Turkey had taken part in the JSF's concept demonstration phase (CDP) to begin its association through foreign military sales for $6.2 million. As a CDP partner Turkey gained significant insight into the program concepts and requirements definition and participated in various capabilities modeling and simulation events. Included in these efforts was a life cycle cost control study, an important area of consideration for the Turkish Air Force that examined the changes to Air Force logistics that should be accomplished to support their JSF aircraft. As a Level III partner, Turkey will participate over the the 10 years of the systems development and demonstration phase.

F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

Different levels of participation as well as (financial) committment will yield different benefits to the participating nations, obviously.

Extensive details here: www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-11283.html

 

[farhan_9909]

turkey should join hands with russia or china for their 5th gen fighter

the f-35 is still years away and i am sure if they give handsome amount of cash to Russia they will sell the PAK fa to turkey

 

[Penguin]

Don't take it personally. America is doing this to all the partners.

Looking forward to the time when you are ready to contribute with a serious response....

 

[500]

Different levels of participation as well as (financial) committment will yield different benefits to the participating nations, obviously.

Even UK, the only level 1 partner did not get codes.

 

[Cerian]

Even UK, the only level 1 partner did not get codes.

Actually, they did get it. Even Bush at the time spoke about it. Only country to get codes as far as I know.

 

[Saithan]

um... it's speculation until there is a source, however I don't think something like that is going to be announced. It'll be kept as a secret for the time being. until you see a british F-35 with different mods.