TURKEY KEEN TO JOIN CPEC

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Sinopakfriend @Shotgunner51 ....Guyz, Can you highlight the importance of Turkey joining CPEC?

Dear Pak Brother,

Firstly, there should be no surprise here. It is the logical development. Tuk-Pak are two flags one country in the coming decades.

As I have stated many times, Turkey's rightful place is in Central, South West Asia and ME. The geo-economic, geo-political and cultural thrust is towards the East.

Turkey is a pivotal state in the Med as Pak is the pivotal state in ME & Afro-Asian Ocean.

The world's power architecture has changed. New realignments are happening faster than I thought possible.

Turkey's leadership at all levels has decided to build diplomatic strength in the East. Have you seen how many defence related projects are being executed by Pak-Turk Friends? Deals with Rus and China are happening faster than before. Turkey is seeking strategic independence.

Fundamental fact is that Turkey was duped by the troublemakers and used/abused to disturb historically friendly relations with China. It was the proxies in Turkey which tried to destroy these historic relations.

This needs to change. I see the change already happening. Pak establishment can play a building bridges role here...to bring two of Paks brothers closer together.

Secondly, CPEC is not just infrastructural project... OBOR is a great Paradigm Shift...it offers win-win co-development to all. Away from death, destruction and subjogation.

OBOR is the architecture of the Future inter-state relationship.

On it will be built a House wherein the Community of Prosperity shall reside.

Those who join are the ones who seek peace and prosperity. Those who try to subotage it are the troublemakers who wish to see the old order of imperial oppression continue. Whoever is opposing / subotagging CPEC through terrorism is Pak enemy.

Not only Turkey but when Europe becomes free it will have to join OBOR/CPEC for its own future and prosperity.

As I have stated earlier...Iran is a tough nut to crack. Will it be constructive and fully join OBOR/CPEC or will it remain the odd one out by allowing those who wish CPEC harm to work from its soil. Iran has to make a choice soon.

I see a new cultural, political and philosophical axis emerging...away from death, destruction and oppression. All happening without wars or destruction.

China has put money where its mouth is = OBOR.

Pak has put all its strategic capital behind development = CPEC.

I welcome Turkey with all my heart to join CPEC and make it an even bigger success.

Please, also, see that Turkey by joining OBOR/CPEC will enhance its strategic leverage vis-a-vis the West. The Pashas in Istanbul are wise!

@HAKIKAT @T-123456 please, friends see whether I have observed something that is not aligned with your great country's inner dynamics?

@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin friends/brothers please, see whether I have misstated anything not aligned with the Chinese inner dynamics.

As a Sino-Pak Friend and Brother, I just wish to see peace, prosperity and socio-economic development in the eurasian heartland and Asia Pacific region.

Although I do not live in Asia but wish to see the revival happening. Humanity needs a new Constructive Framework.


.

 

[TaiShang]

Turkey's leadership at all levels has decided to build diplomatic strength in the East. Have you seen how many defence related projects are being executed by Pak-Turk Friends? Deals with Rus and China are happening faster than before. Turkey is seeking strategic independence.

Fundamental fact is that Turkey was duped by the troublemakers and used/abused to disturb historically friendly relations with China. It was the proxies in Turkey which tried to destroy these historic relations.

It has been Turkey's traditional policy to intervene in others' internal affairs based on ethnic affiliation. This has been witnessed in post-Soviet polities, for instance, albeit with checkered success.

With the latest Islamist AKP government, the ethno-diplomacy was devolved/regressed into ethno-religio sectarian diplomacy.

Syrian War exacerbated the situation.

Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.

This is a direct national security threat to and a breach of China's sovereignty.

This is, in the long run, a threat to the entire Central Asia and South Asia, including our ally Pakistan.

Out of historical wisdom and strategic foresight, Pakistan maintained a balanced approach and advised Turkey on its Syrian policy. Pakistan refrained from intervening in Syria and was rightfully absent from Saudi-led Islam Army.

Turkey's position on Syria has not changed till today. The attempted coup has not changed anything. It was/is an internal fight between two shades of a similar Islamist faction on who would take over the traditionally secular state and change its very DNA to its liking.

Turkey's presence in China as a G20 member has not changed anything, as well. China is always a keen economic actor; its economic cooperation cannot be mistaken for strategic cooperation or trust.

Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.

We know by fact that there are Uighur (and Chechnyan) fighters in terrorists groups directly created and supplied by Turkey. It is impossible that such a dangerous situation would allow for any Eurasian political area being formed in West Asia and the Middle East.

Strategically impossible even if we wanted it.

The emerging Eurasia is basically composed of the OBOR's northern corridor which involves China, Mongolia, Pakistan, Central Asia,. Eastern and Western Europe. The investment, actualized rail and highway connections, and established SEZs (4 of 20 are in Russia, for example) all indicate that emerging Eurasianism is based on China-Russia strategic collaboration as it overarching framework.

It has nothing to do with Turkey.

I think China does not care Turkey stays in NATO, or destroys all the bridges with the West. So far, destroying bridges with the West has resulted in alliances made with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It means nothing for China.

Emerging Eurasianism is not anti-West; but it is an alternative order making that endangers Western supremacy, which might be viewed as anti-West. But, in its essence, it is not anti-West. There are more than 30 Western countries in the AIIB.

China's is strategic-minded and practical. my friend, as you know very deeply and on the historical-philosophical level.

What China needs to see is simply the end of political and civil support and endorsement of terrorists that harbor ill intention against China.

@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin

 

[A-Team]

If the worlds 6th largest country , Nuclear power , 25th largest Economy by PPP and a regional power is tiny than I don't know what are you even smoking . Pakistan right from 1947 has always been a very important political entity in the world .

We are discussing whether of any of the mentioned countries would take a beating from the US for Pakistani interests.
Turkey, Russia won't as discussed, China is debatable.

You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things, Afghanistan is even worse

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

It has been Turkey's traditional policy to intervene in others' internal affairs based on ethnic affiliation. This has been witnessed in post-Soviet polities, for instance, albeit with checkered success.

With the latest Islamist AKP government, the ethno-diplomacy was devolved/regressed into ethno-religio sectarian diplomacy.

Syrian War exacerbated the situation.

Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.

This is a direct national security threat to and a breach of China's sovereignty.

This is, in the long run, a threat to the entire Central Asia and South Asia, including our ally Pakistan.

Out of historical wisdom and strategic foresight, Pakistan maintained a balanced approach and advised Turkey on its Syrian policy. Pakistan refrained from intervening in Syria and was rightfully absent from Saudi-led Islam Army.

Turkey's position on Syria has not changed till today. The attempted coup has not changed anything. It was/is an internal fight between two shades of a similar Islamist faction on who would take over the traditionally secular state and change its very DNA to its liking.

Turkey's presence in China as a G20 member has not changed anything, as well. China is always a keen economic actor; its economic cooperation cannot be mistaken for strategic cooperation or trust.

Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.

We know by fact that there are Uighur (and Chechnyan) fighters in terrorists groups directly created and supplied by Turkey. It is impossible that such a dangerous situation would allow for any Eurasian political area being formed in West Asia and the Middle East.

Strategically impossible even if we wanted it.

The emerging Eurasia is basically composed of the OBOR's northern corridor which involves China, Mongolia, Pakistan, Central Asia,. Eastern and Western Europe. The investment, actualized rail and highway connections, and established SEZs (4 of 20 are in Russia, for example) all indicate that emerging Eurasianism is based on China-Russia strategic collaboration as it overarching framework.

It has nothing to do with Turkey.

I think China does not care Turkey stays in NATO, or destroys all the bridges with the West. So far, destroying bridges with the West has resulted in alliances made with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It means nothing for China.

Emerging Eurasianism is not anti-West; but it is an alternative order making that endangers Western supremacy, which might be viewed as anti-West. But, in its essence, it is not anti-West. There are more than 30 Western countries in the AIIB.

China's is strategic-minded and practical. my friend, as you know very deeply and on the historical-philosophical level.

What China needs to see is simply the end of political and civil support and endorsement of terrorists that harbor ill intention against China.

@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin

Valid analysis...as always!

What I have tried to interject is a course correction. I know I am too set in ways to be too direct..as in my eyes Subtelty is one of very High Virtue.

Course correction done by our Pak Brothers is laying the foundation of their socio-economic development. The Pak is trying hard to stop altogether to be vassal of the global empire. (Sorry, Pak brother! mean no disrespect. Rather a compliment!) But Pak too has a long way to go.

Terrorism has been the tool of choice by the global empire for centuries. We know it too well from our experiences past and present. Both China and Pak have suffered from the foreign sponsored terror.

China's offer is non-interference into internal affairs, co-development and win-win interstate relationships.

Zero-sum games or winner takes all is the mindset of the global empire and its vassals.

However, Turkey joining SCO based on the principles of its framework is step in the right direction. Also, economic integeration does help states to seek mutual benefits and friendliness.

My assertion is that Turkey was used by the global empire to create troubles for China. If Turkey wants to gain strategic independence then of course the conduct of its foreign policy must reflect that. Change does not happen overnight..yet overall direction needs some course correction to foster confidence among strategic partners in the East.

My sense is that this course correction is underway.


China is not constructing an anti- anybody framework..rather its inclusive to anyone or everyone who wishes to join based on the principles of non-interference, mutual respect and win-win paradigm.

Yes, it is also true that I might have blind spots in my eagerness to see OBOR realisation. I guess old people must also learn constantly.

.

 

[Khan_21]

We are discussing whether of any of the mentioned countries would take a beating from the US for Pakistani interests.
Turkey, Russia won't as discussed, China is debatable.

You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things, Afghanistan is even worse

Pakistan is one of the most important and influential political entities in the world possibly in top 20-25 . Just check The level of respect Raheel sharif commands wherever he goes around the world .

As for people taking a beating for us well CPEC itself is not in US interests as it wants balochistan to keep boiling for its own strategic interests. So its kind of a reduntant question. China has blocked alot of moves in united nations for us.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

the grass is always greener on the other side

But jealous souls will not be answer'd so; They are not ever jealous for the cause, But jealous for they are jealous.

William Shakespeare

 

[Kambojaric]

I like your optimism you do realize that US is still the sole superpower, Russia, China and what not though from time to time make noises but in the greater scheme of things they will ditch all of their smaller partners if it really went against US interests. Watching and reading too much sputnik,russia today is not good for health

Besides can you point me to some of the core converging point of interests between these so called new emerging bloc of yours?

The world is changing, and almost every political analyst will tell you we are heading towards a multipolar world (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32427364, http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EX...165401~piPK:64165026~theSitePK:476883,00.html, http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/after-empire-birth-multipolar-world). When China created the Asian Infrastructure and Investment Bank, the US opposed it but could not stop its major allies like the UK from joining it. The US will undoubtedly remain a major power in the coming decades but the rise of China and its new found confidence is balancing polarity in international relations. If other countries like Russia, Pakistan, Turkey support China in the region then no doubt that we are witnessing the establishment of a multipolar world.

What is the rationale behind this group? Why to limit US influence in the region as much as possible. Turkey has just witnessed a US sponsored attempted coup, Russia and the US have been clashing for a long time and its allies in the wider region are being pressurized by groups the US supports such as the PYD Kurds attacking Assad. China is trying to exert its control in its traditional sphere of influence (East Asia, South China Sea), which is being challenged by America's local allies in the region notably Japan and Vietnam. India too is being used by the US to balance the rise of China in the region, which naturally destabilizes its parity viz a viz Pakistan and India. This automatically pushes Pakistan increasingly towards China and the new emerging Asian block.

 

[The Eagle]

We are discussing whether of any of the mentioned countries would take a beating from the US for Pakistani interests.
Turkey, Russia won't as discussed, China is debatable.

You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things, Afghanistan is even worse

Like we were facing USSR for Afghanistan, would be honoured to hear the same from Afghanistan though we knew the capacity that Afghanistan cannot stand against US etc for us but mere words and support would have given the feeling of brotherhood as well. Who stands for whom, the time will tell which is depending upon nation's interests other than brotherhood and friendship as well.

The thing is, new game will be played upon "Not to rely too much others" basis but the tactics and strategy of the one who is facing the threat yet the hidden support of many behind the curtain so none knows who is supporting or not. Nobody takes others role and it is clear that everyone is promised to own interests even if have to support someone else in case of such situation. There would be no beating but influence games played offensively sometimes without any direct incursions.

Regarding your advocacy for US beating this, US beating that and who will take that beating, just to remind you, USSR was once super power as well with the same stance to beat this, beat that and there was saying who will take that beating for A or B but still beaten back so the reality could be, what if US is beaten back by A with the support of B,C,D and others. This is the rule and history repeats itself, so US coming with such attempt, there will be many other factors to support Pakistan other than anyone's strategic needs and old rivalry though we have already realized where Afghanistan would stand.

You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things

This is not new from your side for Pakistan which very much resemble the India's stance, so no offense taken though you are not presenting the Afghanistan at all here but Kabul alone.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Excellent posts!

 

[T-123456]

Excellent posts!

What is excellent about post 92,read it again.
The guy made us a terrorist creating and supporting country and you find that excellent?

Valid analysis...as always!

What is valid,maybe you should read it again.

Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.

Show us proof and not just blah blah.

Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.

Again where is the proof?
Your obsession with my country is hurting your brain,you should get it checked(you tagged/mentioned yourself,)
People like you are the cause of trouble between China and Turkiye,you are a genuine troll.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

What is excellent about post 92,read it again.
The guy made us a terrorist creating and supporting country and you find that excellent?

Other than him, there are excellent posts

 

[T-123456]

Other than him, there are excellent posts

He tagged/mentioned himself,another proof that his brain needs help.

@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin

 

[Umair Nawaz]

With Chinese tailwind it'll be difficult for Iran not to participate. There're no shortage of alternatives..

Iran has already shown interest in Gwadar and CPEC, even its gas pipeline which russia (gazprom) is building in pakistan's territory (North south gas pipeline) its building the sector from Nawabshah in south till Lahore in north east. From there china will take over till Kashghar in western china. And from Irani boder till Nawabshah China is already building by the end of this year its expected to be used in Pakistan since by that time work will be finished in this first phase. That is actually the IPI gas pipeline where india is replaced by china as i was saying yesterday.

Look u need to understand that Iran no matter how it tries to project itself its still a small country in terms of population. It has 80 million people. Which means it has a consumer market of only 80 million, on top of that they have their own domestic industry which needs to be protected from the hordes of international multinational companies influx. This makes even 80 million market to lets say 20 million, 40 million depending upon how they try to protect them and their market share. Pakistan has a population of 200 million which makes it 5th or 8th largest in the planet earth. Which on top of that hasnt got much of domestic industrial base and dont have any domestic industrial policy which is substantial. Here they gain their 100% profit with full market access.

There is a economic reason too as to why China invests so much money into our market and why india is so eager to get its hands on our 200 million market. Gwadar port that it is building is being build in 3 phases. In first phase 4 berths have been build with capacity of 25000-30000 tons. The second phase which is being build these days have 4 more berths as of time being with capacity to handle 200,000 tons, these berths will be added more (10 under CPEC) which will take the total to 18 berths.

In third phase a total of 120 berths and capacity of 400,000 tons which will make her second largest port in the world after Shanghai which has capacity of 500,000 tons. Its already is 3rd deepest port.

Chahbahar only has 3-4 berths as of now and will have total of 10-12 berths in total with capacity of only 250,000 tons. Besides its not a deep sea port. It will need Gwadar's help which is only 180km in the east.

When it comes to iran do what Pakistan does ie ''not taking it seriously'' and just focus on yr own interests in economy, security, and strategic and iran cant do anything. Or if it does just send someone to meet israelis or americans on iran issue and that would put them into their place.

Just focus on regional economic connectivity with them. Militarily, economically, market size they cant compete with us, and that is where future lies.

 

[wiseone2]

But jealous souls will not be answer'd so; They are not ever jealous for the cause, But jealous for they are jealous.

William Shakespeare

jealous of what ??

 

[wiseone2]

It has been Turkey's traditional policy to intervene in others' internal affairs based on ethnic affiliation. This has been witnessed in post-Soviet polities, for instance, albeit with checkered success.

With the latest Islamist AKP government, the ethno-diplomacy was devolved/regressed into ethno-religio sectarian diplomacy.

Syrian War exacerbated the situation.

Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.

This is a direct national security threat to and a breach of China's sovereignty.

This is, in the long run, a threat to the entire Central Asia and South Asia, including our ally Pakistan.

Out of historical wisdom and strategic foresight, Pakistan maintained a balanced approach and advised Turkey on its Syrian policy. Pakistan refrained from intervening in Syria and was rightfully absent from Saudi-led Islam Army.

Turkey's position on Syria has not changed till today. The attempted coup has not changed anything. It was/is an internal fight between two shades of a similar Islamist faction on who would take over the traditionally secular state and change its very DNA to its liking.

Turkey's presence in China as a G20 member has not changed anything, as well. China is always a keen economic actor; its economic cooperation cannot be mistaken for strategic cooperation or trust.

Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.

We know by fact that there are Uighur (and Chechnyan) fighters in terrorists groups directly created and supplied by Turkey. It is impossible that such a dangerous situation would allow for any Eurasian political area being formed in West Asia and the Middle East.

Strategically impossible even if we wanted it.

The emerging Eurasia is basically composed of the OBOR's northern corridor which involves China, Mongolia, Pakistan, Central Asia,. Eastern and Western Europe. The investment, actualized rail and highway connections, and established SEZs (4 of 20 are in Russia, for example) all indicate that emerging Eurasianism is based on China-Russia strategic collaboration as it overarching framework.

It has nothing to do with Turkey.

I think China does not care Turkey stays in NATO, or destroys all the bridges with the West. So far, destroying bridges with the West has resulted in alliances made with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It means nothing for China.

Emerging Eurasianism is not anti-West; but it is an alternative order making that endangers Western supremacy, which might be viewed as anti-West. But, in its essence, it is not anti-West. There are more than 30 Western countries in the AIIB.

China's is strategic-minded and practical. my friend, as you know very deeply and on the historical-philosophical level.

What China needs to see is simply the end of political and civil support and endorsement of terrorists that harbor ill intention against China.

@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin

your thoughts are generally clear

why transport by road when maritime transport is a fraction of the cost ?