Turkey & Iran and Iran and Arabs (The Political Differences)

[Deno]

Deno,

You are over over generalizing and making vast unsubstantiated claims and extrapolating negative things about those countries onto the whole. You have also passed judgment onto other members without even knowing what they truly believe. The thread here is about the political differences between Turkiye, Iran, and the Arabs. Some of those political differences do include how these countries treat their women, from that angle I agree. Though you seem to be judging every Muslim guy here and making us sound like we're all misogynist.

I am deeply sorry if I offended you or any other muslim who read my response. A lot of people were talking about their wish for Islamic state and their dislike for democracy. I was a bit carried away. My family is a muslim and both of my grandfathers were Imam until they passed away.

My mothers father was propably the one of the most gentleman and kind people I know and his love and respect towards his wife was heartwarming. I really am sorry offending you.

I was talking against people who wanted a religious state. We all saw how t ended for women even a true muslim would treat his wife with both equelity and respect. Most humans can easily abuse their power both women and men. And Relgious state is very valunerable towards human error and abuse.

I thank you for your both patient and respectful reply.

 

[Deno]

Dude...you are pricking some bad nerve of these audience...and apart from that you have mentioned that you went to pakistan with a friend from India...That means as you have a friend from evil India...then all of your argument are not at all worth discussing...

Why? Most Indians and Pakistani dont like eachother but what you are saying is a bit judgemental. Pakistani people were very kind towards me and my friends even though they knew few of them were Indians. And Indians to knew that some of my friend were muslim and they were kind and very lovely people too.

It is easy to say that I hate Pakistan or I hate India but when you see someone as a person, it is very hard to hate them. Pakistani people I have met propably hate India but when they saw my friends they were actually chatting with her more than they were chatting with me even thought they assumed I was a muslim.

 

[Kaniska]

Why? Most Indians and Pakistani dont like eachother but what you are saying is a bit judgemental. Pakistani people were very kind towards me and my friends even though they knew few of them were Indians. And Indians to knew that some of my friend were muslim and they were kind and very lovely people too.

It is easy to say that I hate Pakistan or I hate India but when you see someone as a person, it is very hard to hate them. Pakistani people I have met propably hate India but when they saw my friends they were actually chatting with her more than they were chatting with me even thought they assumed I was a muslim.

I am really feeling happy with your existing opinion and i hope your opinion and you will survive for long in pdf..good luck..

 

[agentny17]

Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Algeria, Iraq, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, ect.. are just like New York, California, Texas, ect... but not united. We work together, we become as good as anybody. We don't, we will always be weak. Easy as that.

 

[A1Kaid]

I am deeply sorry if I offended you or any other muslim who read my response. A lot of people were talking about their wish for Islamic state and their dislike for democracy. I was a bit carried away. My family is a muslim and both of my grandfathers were Imam until they passed away.

My mothers father was propably the one of the most gentleman and kind people I know and his love and respect towards his wife was heartwarming. I really am sorry offending you.

I was talking against people who wanted a religious state. We all saw how t ended for women even a true muslim would treat his wife with both equelity and respect. Most humans can easily abuse their power both women and men. And Relgious state is very valunerable towards human error and abuse.

I thank you for your both patient and respectful reply.

Deno, I understand and respect your point of view and I'm familiar with your sentiment my ex-girlfriend shares similar political views as yours. I personally believe in equality of men and women and I personally appreciate professional and educated women. I am not like some people who have a backwards ideology.

 

[Deno]

Deno, I understand and respect your point of view and I'm familiar with your sentiment my ex-girlfriend shares similar political views as yours. I personally believe in equality of men and women and I personally appreciate professional and educated women. I am not like some people who have a backwards ideology.

First, I am sorry things didn't work between you two. I hope for best for you and your ex-girldfriend.

Even though I was raised a little bit more western than most of my peers, I am part of an eastern culture. I was raised to belive tcrying was a weakness, being a victim was a weakneas, that we should rejoice openly and grieve in closed doors. I have traveled europa and whe I see these women and men living freely and openly as they wish with standarts that most of our people couldn't even dream of. I envy them actually.

While a British womens biggest trouble for a day is her hair, my sisters thoughts are troubled with if she will get a beating from her husband/father/brother. And the ones who created this condition is us not West and most of us still want to go with this path and it sickens me.

 

[Kaniska]

First, I am sorry things didn't work between you two. I hope for best for you and your ex-girldfriend.

Even though I was raised a little bit more western than most of my peers, I am part of an eastern culture. I was raised to belive tcrying was a weakness, being a victim was a weakneas, that we should rejoice openly and grieve in closed doors. I have traveled europa and whe I see these women and men living freely and openly as they wish with standarts that most of our people couldn't even dream of. I envy them actually.

While a British womens biggest trouble for a day is her hair, my sisters thoughts are troubled with if she will get a beating from her husband/father/brother. And the ones who created this condition is us not West and most of us still want to go with this path and it sickens me.

Dude...i feel for all of our misery,it is not the religion whether Islam, Hinduism, Christianity to be blamed...rather we the human being always misuse religion to suit our own perspective. There lies the problem and issue..

Any way this is offtopic...

 

[A1Kaid]

First, I am sorry things didn't work between you two. I hope for best for you and your ex-girldfriend.

Even though I was raised a little bit more western than most of my peers, I am part of an eastern culture. I was raised to belive tcrying was a weakness, being a victim was a weakneas, that we should rejoice openly and grieve in closed doors. I have traveled europa and whe I see these women and men living freely and openly as they wish with standarts that most of our people couldn't even dream of. I envy them actually.

While a British womens biggest trouble for a day is her hair, my sisters thoughts are troubled with if she will get a beating from her husband/father/brother. And the ones who created this condition is us not West and most of us still want to go with this path and it sickens me.

The solution is modern education and civility.

 

[Kaniska]

@a1kaid: You are spot on...Its all about education,civility,equal rights to all and respecting another human being..West has invested in these aspects so they are reaping its benefits now....We south asian in particuar went other way round..So we are still poor and struggling to survive...

 

[Abii]

Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Algeria, Iraq, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, ect.. are just like New York, California, Texas, ect... but not united. We work together, we become as good as anybody. We don't, we will always be weak. Easy as that.

I disagree
In a utopian world, we could have a union, like the EU, at the best of cases. We share only a religion (which a lot of people in KSA/Egypt would disagree with b/c shia islam isn't even considered Islam by them). Our languages are different and so are our cultures. Arabic, Turkish and Parsi come from three different language families (Semitic, Turkic and Indo-European respectively) while all European languages more or less share the same family. Culturally we're also very different. While all Europeans share the same culture, we don't. In Iran, pre-Islamic parsi culture is deeply intertwined with modern Islamic-Iranian culture. The arab world has its own set of distinct values and beliefs. The Turks aren't different from arabs religious wise, but they also have a distinct culture of their own (religiously they share the same sect of Islam with arabs and they don't have pre-Islamic religions as do Iranians).

We will never be united. We must however work together to prosper as a region.

 

[RedBeard]

We do have pre-islamic religion called tengrism.

 

[agentny17]

I disagree
In a utopian world, we could have a union, like the EU, at the best of cases. We share only a religion (which a lot of people in KSA/Egypt would disagree with b/c shia islam isn't even considered Islam by them). Our languages are different and so are our cultures. Arabic, Turkish and Parsi come from three different language families (Semitic, Turkic and Indo-European respectively) while all European languages more or less share the same family. Culturally we're also very different. While all Europeans share the same culture, we don't. In Iran, pre-Islamic parsi culture is deeply intertwined with modern Islamic-Iranian culture. The arab world has its own set of distinct values and beliefs. The Turks aren't different from arabs religious wise, but they also have a distinct culture of their own (religiously they share the same sect of Islam with arabs and they don't have pre-Islamic religions as do Iranians).

We will never be united. We must however work together to prosper as a region.

Any person who doesn't consider Shia to be part of Islam is crazy, even Al-Azhar consider Shiis Muslims. Who are we to judge anybody's faith ? .... I agree with most of your post, and i think it is a challenge... I also think that we got no future, unless we settle our stupid problems, amd start working together... One day i hope that an attack on either Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt ect.. by any country in the world, would mean all Muslim Armies getting involved. Instead of the West taking out country by country, one by one, we should fight together.... We also have a Pre- Islamic religion too, almost 10% of Egyptians are Christian, and we have had many religions before Christianty came to Egypt also.

 

[Abii]

We do have pre-islamic religion called tengrism.

Any person who doesn't consider Shia to be part of Islam is crazy, even Al-Azhar consider Shiis Muslims. Who are we to judge anybody's faith ? .... I agree with most of your post, and i think it is a challenge... I also think that we got no future, unless we settle our stupid problems, amd start working together... One day i hope that an attack on either Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt ect.. by any country in the world, would mean all Muslim Armies getting involved. Instead of the West taking out country by country, one by one, we should fight together.... We also have a Pre- Islamic religion too, almost 10% of Egyptians are Christian, and we have had many religions before Christianty came to Egypt also.

of course you guys have pre-Islamic religions, as all human cultures do, I should have worded my post better. I meant that your modern day cultures aren't as intertwined with your pre-Islamic ideoligies as much as ours is. We still celebrate the same holidays that our Zoroastrian ancestors celebrated and we look at Islam as a religion that was forced on us (talking about our liberals of course). Even our muslims celebrate the same holidays and traditions as our Zoroastrian ancestors from 2500 years ago. We simply don't look at Islam as our own (the most religious Iranian member here is Hussain and I would love to get his take on this and see if he disagrees but for the most part I think Iranians don't consider Islam as Iranian, even if they value it). Egyptians speak arabic etc... But all this is beside the point and it's a discussion for another day.

The Middle East is a unique place. It's where civilizations began. You have Sumer in modern day Iraq, the great civilizations of Egypt and the Jiroft civilization of Iran (it predates both Sumeria and Egypt and it was discovered a couple of decades ago only, so the world still has a lot of discovery to do when it comes to this civilization). At the same time you have all the major Ibrahamic religions and the first monotheistic religions born in the same area. The cultural diversity in this region is simply down to the great history of the region. People started farming and domesticating animals in this region more than 11000 years ago!!!!!!! 1400 years of Islam can't erase many thousand years of cultural diversity.

Again, we must learn to do what is best for all of us in this little corner of the world. We don't have to respect each other, but we don't have to hate each other either. I think we're moving to the right direction. Today, the major stumbling block is the presence of colonialists from the West in the Arab world (Persian Gulf region). The region can't become 100 percent stable until all the stake holders can sit down together without having a puppeteer controlling certain parties.

 

[Mosamania]

I disagree
In a utopian world, we could have a union, like the EU, at the best of cases. We share only a religion (which a lot of people in KSA/Egypt would disagree with b/c shia islam isn't even considered Islam by them). Our languages are different and so are our cultures. Arabic, Turkish and Parsi come from three different language families (Semitic, Turkic and Indo-European respectively) while all European languages more or less share the same family. Culturally we're also very different. While all Europeans share the same culture, we don't. In Iran, pre-Islamic parsi culture is deeply intertwined with modern Islamic-Iranian culture. The arab world has its own set of distinct values and beliefs. The Turks aren't different from arabs religious wise, but they also have a distinct culture of their own (religiously they share the same sect of Islam with arabs and they don't have pre-Islamic religions as do Iranians).

We will never be united. We must however work together to prosper as a region.

Actually Shia clerics and religious figures have their own guides and people in Haram shareif you can see them patrolling if you ever come to Makkah. I was in Haram Sharief not 4 hours ago and Black Turban clad clerics with Haram badges were everywhere. So actually the state DOES consider Shias to be Muslims however Shias love to play victim.

---------- Post added at 08:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------

And to the guy saying women are not allowed to exit the house without a male relative. (WTF) the only place I hear about these things are from here this is not the reality AT ALL.

 

[A1Kaid]

^ True the Shias have never been banned from making a pilgrimage to Makkah and Medina in history not even durning the Rashidun Caliphate. Never has any Islamic (Sunni) administration nor empire bar the Shia from Makkah. Though from what I understand Shia Islam has suspicious roots, one I won't discuss on this thread.