Turkey & Iran and Iran and Arabs (The Political Differences)

[jinxeD_girl]

jinxeD, where in the US do you live ? and are you really a girl ?

Yes I am a girl... Minnesota. why? Your id is different "FriendsofPakistan".. that is the first time I am seeing an Iranian being friends of Pakistan ROTFL!!

 

[FriendOfPakistan]

Brrrrr.... cold weather ! I thought we might be neighbors (but we are not).

Actually, the few Pakistanis I have met in person made a good impression on me, that is why I chose this ID and came on this forum. One of them is a lady that works in a shop I visit very frequently. She became very friendly, smiling, and warm after I told her I am Iranian. I even thought - just for a moment - that it might be you

Yes I am a girl... Minnesota. why? Your id is different "FriendsofPakistan".. that is the first time I am seeing an Iranian being friends of Pakistan ROTFL!!

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Brrrrr.... cold weather ! I thought we might be neighbors (but we are not).

Actually, the few Pakistanis I have met in person made a good impression on me, that is why I chose this ID and came on this forum. One of them is a lady that works in a shop I visit very frequently. She became very friendly, smiling, and warm after I told her I am Iranian.

Majority of Pakistanis really love Iran and Iranians. However, here is my true and honest opinion about Iranians. If you meet Iranians in real life, they will be very nice and polite with you. But if you visit their forums online, then you can see their true opinion about Indians and Pakistanis. I remember a particular Persian forum, i think it was dcpersian.com and every 2nd thread was on Indians and Pakistanis. The anonymity which the internet allows, allows people to share their true and honest opinion which they wont share with someone's in real life. It looks like majority of Iranians secretly hate Indians and Pakistanis, calling us slaves, poor, this that etc. I know Afghans and Indians hate us because we have land and other disputes with them, but I never understand the hatred of Iranians towards Pakistanis.

So, is that the true opinion of Iranians towards Pakistanis? Do majority of Iranians really dislike Pakistanis and consider them inferior or it is the opinion of few Iranians.. maybe you can shed some light on this

 

[FriendOfPakistan]

Thanks, I really appreciate it, and so should all Iranians !

Majority of Pakistanis really love Iran and Iranians.

However, here is my true and honest opinion about Iranians. If you meet Iranians in real life, they will be very nice and polite with you. But if you visit their forums online, then you can see their true opinion about Indians and Pakistanis. I remember a particular Persian forum, i think it was dcpersian.com and every 2nd thread was on Indians and Pakistanis. The anonymity which the internet allows, allows people to share their true and honest opinion which they wont share with someone's in real life. It looks like majority of Iranians secretly hate Indians and Pakistanis, calling us slaves, poor, this that etc. I know Afghans and Indians hate us because we have land and other disputes with them, but I never understand the hatred of Iranians towards Pakistanis.

I do not know of any hatred of Iranians towards Pakistanis. I know one Iranian woman who was married to a Pakistani man, and even though she got divorced, she praised the man as very kind and caring - I am not saying this is the rule, but this is the only case I know of, and it came out good. The hatred you are talking about might be related to politics, about the Pakistani government, and Taliban support in Afghanistan, but not directed at Pakistani people. Similarly, many people dislike the policies and government of Iran, without hating Iranians.

As for 'slaves' I never heard of it ... maybe they mean politically ?

Poor, yes, that is probably the perception about Pakistan, and there is some truth to it, but it is not a reason for hating a country, just because they are poorer. And it is all relative, Iran is poor compared to let's say UAE or Qatar, so does this make us worse people ? Of course, not.

So, is that the true opinion of Iranians towards Pakistanis? Do majority of Iranians really dislike Pakistanis and consider them inferior or it is the opinion of few Iranians.. maybe you can shed some light on this

I don't know about majority of Iranians, but seriously I have not heard bad things said about Pakistan from my Iranian friends or family, though it has not been mentioned as a topic often, but unfortunately there are many people - and not just in Iran - who think along the lines of superior-inferior. Americans think Arabs are inferior, so do the French, and so do most Iranians. Other thinks Iranians or Pakistanis are inferior. Some Pakistanis think Indians are inferior. Often there is an element of skin color attached to that, which is really an irrational generalization.

About Pakistanis, Iranians have no strong feelings pro or against, except perhaps when it comes to politics.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Thanks, I really appreciate it, and so should all Iranians !



I do not know of any hatred of Iranians towards Pakistanis. I know one Iranian woman who was married to a Pakistani man, and even though she got divorced, she praised the man as very kind and caring - I am not saying this is the rule, but this is the only case I know of, and it came out good. The hatred you are talking about might be related to politics, about the Pakistani government, and Taliban support in Afghanistan, but not directed at Pakistani people. Similarly, many people dislike the policies and government of Iran, without hating Iranians.

As for 'slaves' I never heard of it ... maybe they mean politically ?

Poor, yes, that is probably the perception about Pakistan, and there is some truth to it, but it is not a reason for hating a country, just because they are poorer. And it is all relative, Iran is poor compared to let's say UAE or Qatar, so does this make us worse people ? Of course, not.


I don't know about majority of Iranians, but seriously I have not heard bad things said about Pakistan from my Iranian friends or family, though it has not been mentioned as a topic often, but unfortunately there are many people - and not just in Iran - who think along the lines of superior-inferior. Americans think Arabs are inferior, so do the French, and so do most Iranians. Other thinks Iranians or Pakistanis are inferior. Some Pakistanis think Indians are inferior. Often there is an element of skin color attached to that, which is really an irrational generalization.

About Pakistanis, Iranians have no strong feelings pro or against, except perhaps when it comes to politics.

Ok that is good to hear. Personally, I think Iranians are very cool and classy people.

 

[soufle]

well you can read about Azarbaijanis and their culture on the internet, but you also need to differenciate between the former Soviet Republic of Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijan. Iran fought a few wars with Russia that all ended in defeat for Iran. Russia ended up annexing a chunk of Northern Iran. That's how the modern day republic of Azerbaijan came to existence. Today they're highly influenced by Russia culture (as all the republics were/are). Iranian Azeris are similarly influenced by Persian culture.

---------- Post added at 11:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 PM ----------

Pa Pati has spoken

---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------


January 19, 2012
The day Bedouin became a swear word lmao

Azeris = Turkic culture

 

[W.11]

Thanks, I really appreciate it, and so should all Iranians !



I do not know of any hatred of Iranians towards Pakistanis. I know one Iranian woman who was married to a Pakistani man, and even though she got divorced, she praised the man as very kind and caring - I am not saying this is the rule, but this is the only case I know of, and it came out good. The hatred you are talking about might be related to politics, about the Pakistani government, and Taliban support in Afghanistan, but not directed at Pakistani people. Similarly, many people dislike the policies and government of Iran, without hating Iranians.

As for 'slaves' I never heard of it ... maybe they mean politically ?

Poor, yes, that is probably the perception about Pakistan, and there is some truth to it, but it is not a reason for hating a country, just because they are poorer. And it is all relative, Iran is poor compared to let's say UAE or Qatar, so does this make us worse people ? Of course, not.


I don't know about majority of Iranians, but seriously I have not heard bad things said about Pakistan from my Iranian friends or family, though it has not been mentioned as a topic often, but unfortunately there are many people - and not just in Iran - who think along the lines of superior-inferior. Americans think Arabs are inferior, so do the French, and so do most Iranians. Other thinks Iranians or Pakistanis are inferior. Some Pakistanis think Indians are inferior. Often there is an element of skin color attached to that, which is really an irrational generalization.

About Pakistanis, Iranians have no strong feelings pro or against, except perhaps when it comes to politics.

the most retarded pakistanis think of indians are inferior, it is because many pakistani marasis or singers go to india to earn indian money, many actors go there, india is developing nation in technology wise

same can be said when indians hoot the chinese for their mongoloid race, but china is destined to become a super power, every household has a chinese product even iran

iran is dying to export its oil to so called inferior india because it wants indian money and so on

there is nothing such as superior race, only dim wit people who have nothing better in their lives and have not tasted the life think like that

indians and pakistan low lives both use inferiority card on each other

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Political differences is the worst thing the Muslim countries can have i sincerely pray that both Saudi,Iran & turkey can settle their differences & forms a common platform add Pakistan & Egypt to it & it will be a blessing of the Muslim world

 

[ASQ-1918]

Can you tell me since when did "Iranic" peoples began to live in Yurts? You cannot assimilate anyone to live in Yurts, you know.

Some groups like Shahsevens, still live a nomadic life in Yurts. Some other groups, settled down and are not nomadic anymore.

The groups Azerbaijani Turks are divided into are all listed and known, and none of them are "Iranic". Afshar, Qarapapakh, Qaradagh, Shahseven, Ayrim and so on...

 

[ASQ-1918]

Regarding all the stuff our dear friend posts from wikipedia, he fails to mention that all of these theories goes back to Ahmad Kasravi, who dedicated his life to "Iranize" Azerbaijani Turks. He had a strong political agenda. Like I say, all theories goes back to him. And he has not even supported any of his claims, the other authors just has copied his ideas. So it's indeed very laughable.

Can you tell me how in God's name could nomads, who themselve adopted other culture and language, "assimilate" other peoples? Seljuqs themselves did not care about Turkic language, they used Persian language as official language of their state, and even more then that, the Seljuq domination were not even in region of Azerbaijan, their capitals and all that were in today's Persian areas of Iran. You will find countless Seljuq monuments in Persian areas of Iran but not so much in Azerbaijan. So if there was a such case, then Azerbaijan should have remained "Iranic", and today's Persian areas of Iran should be speaking a Turkic language.

The truth is, a large, very large number of Turkic tribes settled in Azerbaijan. The tribes names still survives to this day. For instance, the area around Urmiya and Urmiya itself are all Afshar, no exception. Afshars are a well known medieval Oghuz tribe.

If nomads were so capable in "assimilating" other peoples, then half of the world should be Mongol now.

 

[ASQ-1918]

"FriendofPakistan", you really need some history lesson, but of course not the Iranian way.

Do you know that there existed Khanates on both sides of Araz river, and were collectively called as Khanates of Azerbaijan? Irevan Khanate, Karabakh Khanate, Guba Khanate, Ganja Khanate, Tabriz Khanate, Qaradagh Khanate etc...

They were also not a part of Qajars, but at war with Qajars. "Armenia" did not exist by that time you..., you are so ignorant and all that its not even funny. Modern territority of Armenia consisted of Irevan Khanate, an Azerbaijani Khanate.

Russians did not steal any territority from Qajars, the Khanates (northern ones) that were at war with Qajars requested asistance from Russian Tsar, and in turn accepted to be vassals of the Russian empire. The treaties between the Russian and Qajar empires after the war were not saying that Qajars would give territorities north of Araxes to Russia (and how can you give something you don't have), but that Qajars would recognize the Russian vassalage over Khanates north of Araxes. And only in 1850, did Russian Tsar abolished the Khanates and annexted them into Russian Empire.

The Southern Khanates did not, and that is the reason why they became a part of Iran.

 

[ASQ-1918]

As for Safavids, we are not talking about the Safaviyya order, but the dynasty itself. The Safaviyya order were created almost 3 centuries before the dynasty itself.

Safavids did not call their empire as "Iran", but Safavid. "Iran" name did not even exist before Shah decided to rename Persia into Iran. I don't care how old the name is, it was not used for any empire during middle-ages.

Shah Ismail had 2 titles, Shah of Azerbaijan, and Shah of Iran. Merely geographical terms. When he took Tabriz, which became the Safavid capital, he declared himself Shah, and that naturally would be Shah of Azerbaijan, because he would conquer Iran only years later. And years later when he did that, he also declared himself as Shah of Iran. So at the end he had 2 titles. They were merely geographical terms, like said.

You say that Sham Ismail grew bilingual, Shah Ismail's native language was Azeri Turkish and not Persian. He wrote 1400 verses in Azeri Turkish, in comparision to only 50 in Persian.

 

[ASQ-1918]

And our dear friend of course also forgets to mention that Azerbaijan are only a geographical name. The people of Azerbaijan are Turks. Even in Iran today, "Azeri" are not used, they say Turk. And the language are known as Turki. And no one cares what Azerbaijan means, it's just a geographical name, the people are not Azerbaijani or Azeri, they are Turk. Macedonia are a Greek name but today's Macedonians are Slavs, not Greeks.

The usage of Azeri instead of Turk began during Pahlavi era, and agian Ahmad Kasravi comes into play in this. He was the one who suggested that.

Soviet leadership copied this, and in 1936 changed the ethnic Turk name into Azerbaijani in north of Araxes aswell.

 

[ASQ-1918]

You can see in Russian Tsar documents that they called Azerbaijani Turks as "Tatar".

This is a census of Russian Empire showing ethnic composition of Irevan (Yerevan) governorate.

http://i51.tinypic.com/e7mf7o.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2cerehu.jpg

Armyanski - Kurdski - Yevreyski (Jew) - Tatarski (Azerbaijani)

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I don't understand why this thread has gone so far? It is obvious that even today's Turks are ethnically Anatolian people and not migrated from Central Asia. Genetically the pool of Turkish population that have DNA stemming from around the Altai Mountains (Central Asia) is lesser than 3 percent. That makes perfect sense, since Anatolian people changed their religion with Seljuk Turks conquering their lands and other Turkish beyliks and "emirates". Later with Ottoman Empire that specific Turkish culture and language has been spread to every part of Anatolia plus many other places including Middle East, North Africa and Balkans. As one poster said, it is more about the culture and language than the genetic makeup that makes a nation.