TTP Murdered 11 foreign mountaineers at Nanga Parbat base camp.

[Abu Zolfiqar]

an epic failure on the part of the police, the security and intelligence apparatus

words can't even describe what a damage has been done to an already withering tourist industry; then again, that's what our enemies close by want -- in that sense, they succeeded this time, but they'll get what's coming to them.

the ring leader of this group will probably be cowering away across the border somewhere


RIP to those who were our guests whom we failed miserably to protect

relative of mine runs a tour guide business in Chitral; even there people are furious and very saddened

the suspects who have been rounded up (37 in all thus far?) should be interrogated in such a way that they will divulge information needed to nab the terrorist(s) and identify their financiers/backers

 

[Albatross]

FBI helps investigate attack on tourists - DAWN.COM

WASHINGTON: The US Federal Investigation Agency is working with Pakistani officials in investigating the terrorist attack in which nine foreign tourists were killed, the State Department said on Monday.

The State Department condemned the attack and confirmed that an American citizen was among the victims.

"The FBI is working with Pakistani authorities to gather more information regarding this incident,” State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell told a briefing in Washington.

"The US government strongly condemns the terrorist attack on tourists in the northern areas of Pakistan in which nine innocent tourists and a Pakistani guide were murdered on June 23rd,” he said.

“Our condolences go out to the loved ones affected by this senseless violence. And we can confirm that there was an American citizen killed in the terrorist attack. So we to continue to express our condolences,” Mr Ventrell said.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

DAWN

SHOCKING as it may be, despite the uncontrollable spiral of militant violence threatening to push the country beyond the brink, we do not have a coherent strategy to counter the grave challenges to our security.

The new government now seems to have woken up to the need for devising a new national security policy. But does it have the strategic vision and resolve to formulate an overarching and viable strategy to secure Pakistan against a dangerous mix of internal and external threats?

For long, the national security policy remained the sole domain of the military establishment. The policy, based on a narrow prism of traditional external threat perceptions alone, is no more relevant to the fast-changing domestic security landscape. This approach failed to factor in the various dimensions of the security paradigm. A purely militaristic approach has proved disastrous for internal security.

Many security problems presently confronting the country emanate from that flawed strategic outlook. There hasn’t been any effort to evolve a comprehensive strategy integrating defence, foreign and economic policies.

All of them are important components of national security. Terrorism and militancy have largely been dealt with, in a limited way, as law and order problems.

With the country now confronting multiple challenges of terrorism, violent extremism and low-intensity insurgencies, it has become much more urgent to evolve a holistic, overarching national security strategy.

A review has become necessary as more than external factors the country’s security is now threatened by the prospect of an economic collapse and security meltdown.

Chronic instability has retarded economic growth. In the climate of perpetual domestic turmoil, the writ of the state is fast shrinking.

The government’s control is tenuous over large swathes of the land. Karachi, Pakistan’s largest city and economic jugular, has virtually turned into a lawless territory as armed gangs under the patronage of different political parties fight for influence.

Meanwhile, the country has earned the dubious distinction of being the largest incubator of ****** extremism threatening not only its own security, but also the region’s stability. It has long been the centre of a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, fuelling sectarian violence.

The state seems to have no control over the massive flow of funds from Middle Eastern countries to radical madressahs in Balochistan.

According to intelligence sources, radical Islamic groups under the patronage of some Arab country have also been recruiting jihadis to fight alongside the Syrian rebels.

This is a highly dangerous situation undermining national security. These are all symptoms of a state losing control.

It is indeed a positive move by the new government to review the national security strategy and a wise decision to take on board the military leadership to formulate a strategy to confront the new security challenges.

For a policy to be effective, it is imperative for the civilian and military leadership to be on the same page. Unfortunately, such coordination has been missing in the past.

For an effective and coherent policy, however, there’s a need for a clear perception of the challenges and a strategic vision to deal with them.

Unfortunately, both seem to be missing thus far. The government’s narrative on the rising tide of militant violence and religious extremism appears to be confused and flawed. That certainly does not inspire much confidence in the government’s ability to devise a viable security strategy.

There’s been a massive resurgence in violence since the Sharif government took charge some three weeks ago.

The Quetta bus carnage, attack on a hospital, suicide bombings at a funeral in Mardan, killing of Shia worshippers in Peshawar and now the brutal murder of 10 foreign mountaineers in Gilgit-Baltistan indicate the growing reach of the militants and the ineptitude of the state.

An extremely weak response to those gruesome attacks and the killings of innocent people raises serious questions about the government’s resolve to combat terrorism and militancy more effectively.

After the Quetta incident, Interior Minister Nisar Ali Khan’s conflicting stance on negotiations with the militants indicates either his lack of understanding about the militant threat to national security or reflects a policy of appeasement.

There seems to be no clarity among officials on the dangerous nexus of various outlawed militant groups, sectarian outfits and their foreign patrons.

Given these ambiguities, there is a danger that the new national security policy, like in the past, may just be reduced to a law and order issue with no connection to economic, defence and foreign policies. One can only hope that the perspective gets clearer during deliberations among the different stakeholders.

The government has set a deadline of June 30 for the formulation of the broad contours of a national security policy. One wonders whether such a short deadline would suffice to get this critical policy ready.

 

[pak-marine]

Animals killing unarmed tourists wtf ..

 

[krash]

@krash is our expert on the area...
He didn't come to this thread...

But do you think the mountaineers were on Astor side?

That side has more population than Chilas route..

I've just begun going through the thread but as per my initial readings they were killed in Fairy Meadows, right? If so then that's the Diamir side, way beyond Chillas and way before Astore.

that's the point....they can't be local...
locals know which mountain to face and then turn which way....to go to nanga parbat..
plus those people seem to have taken the long route away from public eyes.....as there is a jeep track to nanga parbat....stating near chilas.....goes straight to base camp..no guides needed..
@krash is the experienced one here....

No way these guys were locals. Although recently they've gotten a bit greedy and 'commercialized', so to speak, they still live for and off these tourists. Plus they just aren't the type.

@krash....
you know the area well...

are there any hotels at the base of nanga parbat?
and how are local people?

No hotels, just a few hut like wooden cottages, many built on stilt like structures. The area is preserved pretty well. But all this is way before the nearest base camp, a good half a day trek.

Now, as I stated before the perps are very very unlikely to be locals. In this case, barring the murders being reported late and giving enough time to the perps to escape, these dogs aren't going anywhere. If they were still not beyond Chillas or up Ghizar (very unlikely) when the authorities were notified then they'll be found. Let me go through the thread a little and then I'll be able to go into details. I'll try to get a hold of one of the locals as well. Whatever this was, it was planned and meant to send a message and show a picture.

@Dreamreaper: Yara really sorry for being so late, going through two really insane projects at Uni. Sans lenay ka time nahi mill raha.

It doesn't take expertise or training to kill scores of unarmed civilians that were likely sleeping. All that is needed are weapons warm cloths and no soul.

I do not know why so many here are surprised, Pakistan has thousand of these incidents a year, wether it be suicide bombers or gunmen.

The surprise comes to anyone and everyone who's ever been to any of those places or knows about them. A dozen or a hundred such incidents in Waziristan or Karachi do not mean that the rest of Pakistan is on fire, much less Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. Different places, different people, different atmospheres. Again one needs to know the areas in Pakistan to come to any conclusion and to guage this incident in particular, unless you work for any of the western 'news' franchises. Sneaking into Gilgit-Baltistan is no easy task.

Note: Fairy meadows lays at the fringes of Gilgit-Baltistan.

We all know , but we love to live fool's heaven.....look some invisible power to blame......

Yes of course , just when Islamist insurrection, balocuh separatists, Ethnic and linguistic rivalries resulting in terror in Karachi, daily incidents of honor crimes, acid throwing, and the general corruption prevailing in society were brightening Pakistan's image the world over, tsk tsk tsk

Would help more if you two gave your takes clearly on the matter, as in tell us what we all know. Easier to answer that way.

or yeh Chilas kay log kaam kiya kertay hain sawaye slaying trees and robbing tourists and previously becoming sectarian murderers?

and now this.... who else do you think would send 18-20 terrorists?

nobody likes Chilasi people...

Don't. The Chillasi could not have done this. It's one thing to rob someone and quite another go out and hunt tourists.

not true, nobody really stops in Chilas and then move next day to Gilgit so to waste another day...

EVERYONE stops at Chillas. Almost always at the hotel with the stuffed Markhor in the lobby. Remember the name?

Pakistan is full of savage, subhuman, barbarians who will kill at every chance they get and kill just for the sake of harming others. There is absolutely no humanity left in that part of the world. No value for innocent lives whatsoever.

Rich coming from the resident of a country that is directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in the last 10 years. How long have you been visiting Pakistan only through the TV and the newspapers?

oh bhai point being the same... kitnay logo ko trekking ka rasta pata hai?

Dou guide hire karna kitna mushkil hai? Specially in an area which primarily earns its living by providing guides, where every kid is brought up as a guide.

For Indian friends - whenever Pakistanis are embarrassed by a discussion they try to derail it by making it an India Pakistan thing = in other words they try to bait you - best to avoid such efforts

While others try to run the pretense of "sense", "logic" and "enlightenment", ironically and comically falling, face-first, right in the midst of the ignorance they are trying to point out and pretend to climb on top of. Can't be helped, we are all Pakistanis after all *wink, wink*.

 

[Leader]

@krash they spoke pashtun and shina both, one news item reported.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I dont think those roaches could climb the mountains into afghanistan... they will either try to exit through KKH? or through kashmir... and who knows maybe the survivors could identify those mofos and make it easier for the agencies to nab them... i think the govt will try its best to catch them... lets see....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

DAWN

SHOCKING as it may be, despite the uncontrollable spiral of militant violence threatening to push the country beyond the brink, we do not have a coherent strategy to counter the grave challenges to our security.

The new government now seems to have woken up to the need for devising a new national security policy. But does it have the strategic vision and resolve to formulate an overarching and viable strategy to secure Pakistan against a dangerous mix of internal and external threats?
.

beg to disagree with bold part, all this government has done is the announcement to punish Musharraf for his crimes

 

[Argus Panoptes]

beg to disagree with bold part, all this government has done is the announcement to punish Musharraf for his crimes

His ALLEGED crimes Sir. Nothing is proven as of yet.

 

[American Pakistani]

What a sad country Pakistan is, if this incident happen in any other country, their govt, army, police. law enforcement agencies all would've come into action & those terrorists would have been already arrested but in the case of Pakistan there is no progress worth mentioning.

After this incident i was expecting a massive hunt operation in that area where these innocent tourists were killed & i was also expecting heavy bombardment on TTP terrorists hideouts in Pakistan & Afghanistan & i was expecting govt to start fencing the Pak-Afghan border.......none happened. Instead PML-N is busy setting it's political scores & worried about Musharraf.

 

[iPhone]

What a sad country Pakistan is, if this incident happen in any other country, their govt, army, police. law enforcement agencies all would've come into action & those terrorists would have been already arrested but in the case of Pakistan there is no progress worth mentioning.

After this incident i was expecting a massive hunt operation in that area where these innocent tourists were killed & i was also expecting heavy bombardment on TTP terrorists hideouts in Pakistan & Afghanistan & i was expecting govt to start fencing the Pak-Afghan border.......none happened. Instead PML-N is busy setting it's political scores & worried about Musharraf.

I told earlier nothing would happen. These 37 people that have been arrested, more than likely some locals and some drifters. To the gov't and the military and the police it's just another incident. Sad but true.

Even if the attackers aren't caught, all is not lost. IT's not like we dn't know who did it. The attackers were just foot soldiers. The bastard organization proudly takes responsibility is sitting near the afghan border. IF we had the will and the character, we would have destroyed them by now.

But I guess we have to sit through each and every ugly atrocity committed by them and dwell on whether the attackers got caught.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Outsiders can not operate so easily in gilgit baltistan.....I believe this new faction of TTP junud-e-hafza are recruited from local sunni extremists (we all know that Gilgat has sectarian issues).

 

[Irfan Baloch]

His ALLEGED crimes Sir. Nothing is proven as of yet.

when the judges in question who are presiding over the hearings have time and again declared their intentions to the entire country and the world then what doubt can one have about the outcome of the verdict?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

when the judges in question who are presiding over the hearings have time and again declared their intentions to the entire country and the world then what doubt can one have about the outcome of the verdict?

Doubts or not, the crimes remain ALLEGED until the verdict is handed down, whatever it may be, predictable or not, Sir.

 

[Major Sam]