TSMC founder told Pelosi US chip-making efforts 'doomed to fail' during Taiwan trip

[nahtanbob]

That is the issue. Get capital, build fabs, staff it with skilled workers - takes time. At the end of the day, what return on investment for producing microcontrollers? Hint: Ask DRAM makers - not much. That is why Intel etc., got out of DRAM in 1980's

Their cost of capital is cheap. they are not as focused on margins. Intel's gross margins are in 40+% and Wall Street started howling when it came down to 36.5% last quarter.

If you give me lot of money and don't ask for high returns, I can produce all the chips you want in U.S.

with the government giving money things become moot

And yet, they still can't produced even 7nm chips? So ashame for USA.

Now US is trying to bring down TSMC, by first trying to crash it's stock. I hope those US hedge fund operate under the wing of CIA will get burn instead. Their plan trying to shortsell TSMC stocks will not work well.


Stop boasting about how US has access those equipment when u can't even make use of them to make the best chips. You are so useless. China is much talented and better than you.

double yawn

 

[DF41]

Intruder at Pelosi home shouted 'where is Nancy?' before assaulting husband with hammer, source says

Paul Pelosi, the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, was assaulted with a hammer in the couple's San Francisco home, local police said.

www.cnbc.com

BEAUTIFUL EVENT TO BEHOLD!!!

Paul Pelosi, the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, was violently assaulted with a hammer by a man who broke into the couple’s San Francisco home early Friday morning, local police said.

The assailant was searching for the House speaker, shouting, “Where is Nancy, where is Nancy?” before assaulting 82-year-old Paul Pelosi, a source briefed on the attack told CNBC. Nancy Pelosi was not in San Francisco at the time.

 

[DF41]

Intruder at Pelosi home shouted 'where is Nancy?' before assaulting husband with hammer, source says

Paul Pelosi, the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, was assaulted with a hammer in the couple's San Francisco home, local police said.

www.cnbc.com

BEAUTIFUL EVENT TO BEHOLD!!!

Paul Pelosi, the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, was violently assaulted with a hammer by a man who broke into the couple’s San Francisco home early Friday morning, local police said.

The assailant was searching for the House speaker, shouting, “Where is Nancy, where is Nancy?” before assaulting 82-year-old Paul Pelosi, a source briefed on the attack told CNBC. Nancy Pelosi was not in San Francisco at the time.

https://****/thearcangel/12431

Paul Pelosi’s 911 call reveals he knew the man, his name is David and describes him as his friend.

In the beginning he said he didn’t know him but later, Paul confessed.

The Pelosi’s are not being honest. Retweet so everyone sees this.

https://****/thearcangel

https://****/thearcangel/12412

False flags to push a political narrative

https://****/thearcangel

 

[nahtanbob]

https://****/thearcangel/12431

Paul Pelosi’s 911 call reveals he knew the man, his name is David and describes him as his friend.

In the beginning he said he didn’t know him but later, Paul confessed.

The Pelosi’s are not being honest. Retweet so everyone sees this.

https://****/thearcangel

https://****/thearcangel/12412

False flags to push a political narrative

https://****/thearcangel

you are more conspiracies than the right wing nuts

 

[Beast]

with the government giving money things become moot



double yawn

Lol.. the truth must have hurt u bad. Next time look into mirror before u speak. When comes to chip making, US is even worst off than China.

 

[tower9]

https://****/thearcangel/12431

Paul Pelosi’s 911 call reveals he knew the man, his name is David and describes him as his friend.

In the beginning he said he didn’t know him but later, Paul confessed.

The Pelosi’s are not being honest. Retweet so everyone sees this.

https://****/thearcangel

https://****/thearcangel/12412

False flags to push a political narrative

https://****/thearcangel

Color me surprised, the Pelosis turn out to be fucking liars

 

[gambit]

What do we expect Morris Chang to say? That detach from Asia will be wildly successful and put TSMC out of business? Of course, Chang MUST put as negative spin as possible without being impolite.

 

[gambit]

That is not the reason. What Mr. Chang is saying is that the volume of chips is so large that U.S. will be reliant on imports for a long time. One can't build so many fabs so fast. There is a limitation on equipment, skilled labor etc.,

Not as long as you think, or that monsieur Chang made it out to be. His comment runs contrary to what TSMC is actually doing in the US.

TSMC to hold first tool-in ceremony in Arizona fab - Focus Taiwan

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC) will hold the first tool-in ceremony for its fab in the U.S. state of Arizona in December to install the first batch of production equipment in the plant, TSMC said on Tuesday.

focustaiwan.tw

The other major players are Intel and Micron and they, at least in principle, intends to invest in the US given the hard lessons of COVID and the Ukraine-Russia war is doing to the global supply chain in general and semicon products in particular. Once a fab is up and running, it can take up to two yrs to 'qual' the products from engineering to commodity status. Micron pledged $100 bils over 20 yrs and is currently expanding in Boise, ID, and purchasing property in Syracuse, NY. Intel is expanding in Arizona. So in the next five yrs, we will see at least two US source fabs entering engineering status.

Secondly, much of the semiconductor market is low cost, older processes we call colloquially n+2, n+3 etc., That means if n is 10 nanometer technology, state of the art, n+1 is 14 nm, n+2 is 22nm, n+3 is 32nm etc. These are 10–15-year-old technologies, fully depreciated and commoditized. This is what is used in your microwave oven, washing machine, dishwasher etc., U.S. can't make them at U.S. fabs economically. As an example, Intel's lowest cost CPU may be $100 per chip (at the high end, a moderate performance Xeon server chip may be $1,000 per chip. A very high-end Xeon may be $9,000 per chip). a microcontroller used in microwave oven will be $1 per chip. Intel and AMD have the knowhow for the most complex CPU chips but almost any small firm can design microcontrollers and any ordinary fab can make them. They are the chip industry equivalent of T-Shirt industry. Whereas a Xeon is the chip equivalent of a Gucci or Armani.

That is a fair point. However, foundries specialized in older tech nodes and foundries usually use older tools that are proven to those older tech nodes. Newer fabs will have newer tools that will be more efficient and automation will make the product lines less labor intensive. Much of the current semicon products are still on the 200 mm, or 8-inch, wafer size and their fabs are configured accordingly. Newer fabs will move to the larger 300 mm, or 12-in, wafer and AMHS automation will be dominant.

AMHS for 300 mm wafer

Many discussions are currently underway concerning the imminent introduction of new 300 mm generation wafer fabrication facilities. An Automated Material Handling System (AMHS) is at the center of interest and various transport methods are being studied and proposed by various manufacturers and...

ieeexplore.ieee.org

200mm Demand Surges

Despite slowdown in some areas, shortages will continue into 2021 due to lack of equipment.

semiengineering.com

Then, at many foundries, relatively mature 40nm and 28nm processes in 300mm fabs are also in demand. “These nodes are being driven by consumer and communications applications. Applications such as gaming, wireless communications, and LED drivers are just some of the driving applications. In addition, 5G and mmWave-related devices are growing quickly,” Ng said.​

300 mm wafers will make it economical.

The current 200 mm fabs cannot be converted to handle 300 mm wafers. The estimated conversion cost? Might as well build a brand new fab.

 

[epebble]

Not as long as you think, or that monsieur Chang made it out to be. His comment runs contrary to what TSMC is actually doing in the US.

TSMC to hold first tool-in ceremony in Arizona fab - Focus Taiwan

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC) will hold the first tool-in ceremony for its fab in the U.S. state of Arizona in December to install the first batch of production equipment in the plant, TSMC said on Tuesday.

focustaiwan.tw

The other major players are Intel and Micron and they, at least in principle, intends to invest in the US given the hard lessons of COVID and the Ukraine-Russia war is doing to the global supply chain in general and semicon products in particular. Once a fab is up and running, it can take up to two yrs to 'qual' the products from engineering to commodity status. Micron pledged $100 bils over 20 yrs and is currently expanding in Boise, ID, and purchasing property in Syracuse, NY. Intel is expanding in Arizona. So in the next five yrs, we will see at least two US source fabs entering engineering status.


That is a fair point. However, foundries specialized in older tech nodes and foundries usually use older tools that are proven to those older tech nodes. Newer fabs will have newer tools that will be more efficient and automation will make the product lines less labor intensive. Much of the current semicon products are still on the 200 mm, or 8-inch, wafer size and their fabs are configured accordingly. Newer fabs will move to the larger 300 mm, or 12-in, wafer and AMHS automation will be dominant.

AMHS for 300 mm wafer

Many discussions are currently underway concerning the imminent introduction of new 300 mm generation wafer fabrication facilities. An Automated Material Handling System (AMHS) is at the center of interest and various transport methods are being studied and proposed by various manufacturers and...

ieeexplore.ieee.org

200mm Demand Surges

Despite slowdown in some areas, shortages will continue into 2021 due to lack of equipment.

semiengineering.com

Then, at many foundries, relatively mature 40nm and 28nm processes in 300mm fabs are also in demand. “These nodes are being driven by consumer and communications applications. Applications such as gaming, wireless communications, and LED drivers are just some of the driving applications. In addition, 5G and mmWave-related devices are growing quickly,” Ng said.​

300 mm wafers will make it economical.

The current 200 mm fabs cannot be converted to handle 300 mm wafers. The estimated conversion cost? Might as well build a brand new fab.

5 years looks like a likely timeframe to bring a proven technology fab from greenfield/brownfield to production. Then there is a question of manpower. I live in Portland, Oregon and Intel has been running TV ads to hire fab workers. It is skilled work that requires a type of personality: extreme attention to detail and willingness to read and meticulously follow hundreds of directions. Almost like an aircraft pilot.

 

[gambit]

5 years looks like a likely timeframe to bring a proven technology fab from greenfield/brownfield to production. Then there is a question of manpower. I live in Portland, Oregon and Intel has been running TV ads to hire fab workers. It is skilled work that requires a type of personality: extreme attention to detail and willingness to read and meticulously follow hundreds of directions. Almost like an aircraft pilot.

Please...Do not exaggerate. I know both aviation and semicon. F-111 (Cold War), then F-16 (Desert Storm). Now am currently in semicon. The average manufacturing/process technician requirement is basic PC proficiency. Not even like a jet crew chief. I used to work on Intel's 3DXP product.