Trump’s ‘deal-making skills’ can help resolve Kashmir: US VP-elect Mike Pence

[That Guy]

Ever wonderd why Pakistanis like @That Guy keep singing paens in favor of Musharraf's "solution"? They know they are in no position to force the issue. Ever. They also know they are running out of time with India well and truly locked in a counter thrust in Balochistan. And pushing them from Afghanistan. It's all well and good to send ten men across the border to kill and be killed. But history shows that territory once lost does not come back easy. If ever. And that is Pakistan's real fear. Not wresting Kashmir. But not losing big chunks of their land. And as before in 1971 it will not be to India (not at least what we do not claim). But to the rightful native residents of the land. And the chain reaction it would trigger in other restive areas and peoples.

You seem really obsessed with me, I'm flattered.

On your point, your assumptions are going to get you in trouble one day, I would suggest you stop. You seem to have this misguided idea that Pakistan is weak, and India is powerful. This idea of Indian exceptionalism isn't new, I've seen it a lot, but yours takes the cake. You're overestimating India's power and influence.

India's so called "counter thrust" in Baluchistan is already dead in its tracks. The Baluchi insurgency is practically dead, other than a few out-liars. India's spying network in Baluchistan has already been broken up quite a bit, and will continue to see a decline, and India's tools in Karachi are also seeing a decline as well.

Meanwhile, India has still not solved the issues that it is facing in Kashmir, and you really have the audacity to talk about Pakistan. You're delusional at best, willfully ignorant at worst.

 

[padamchen]

You seem really obsessed with me, I'm flattered.

On your point, your assumptions are going to get you in trouble one day, I would suggest you stop. You seem to have this misguided idea that Pakistan is weak, and India is powerful. This idea of Indian exceptionalism isn't new, I've seen it a lot, but yours takes the cake. You're overestimating India's power and influence.

India's so called "counter thrust" in Baluchistan is already dead in its tracks. The Baluchi insurgency is practically dead, other than a few out-liars. India's spying network in Baluchistan has already been broken up quite a bit, and will continue to see a decline, and India's tools in Karachi are also seeing a decline as well.

Meanwhile, India has still not solved the issues that it is facing in Kashmir, and you really have the audacity to talk about Pakistan. You're delusional at best, willfully ignorant at worst.

As long as there are Baloch who lift the gun against the state, you are always going to have a problem. You have just compounded the problem with the Chinese. Not solved it. As time will tell.

I did not mention Karachi. You did. But yes, Karachi has demographic potential. Which funnily increases with every day of India moving far away from Pakistan economically, and with it so do its Muslims. With every year of Hindus and Muslims living together as brothers. The pull of the motherland and the ties to the soil remain strong.

We have no real problem in Kashmir. Let me help you with perspective again. It's getting to be a habit. A few million citizens in a frump does not really matter to a 1.3 billion behemoth. We are just sad for them. So many stones to throw, so little time. And now no money. Life can be so unfair when you are a Kashmiri professional freelance stone pelter.

 

[LeGenD]

Wow. That's some House of cards kind of shit. It's not gonna happen. Writing a story that only depicts trump as pulling out investments from India suits your imagination only.

Just because Trump calls Modi and threatens him, India will handover Kashmir to Pakistan? How naive is it? Au contraire, why not Trump make Pakistan to handover GB to India?

You recall the standoff between Pakistan and India in 2002? Indian armed forces were position on the border and India looked set to attack on a moment's notice. Then, suddenly, Indian government called it off. So what happened in your opinion? A single call from President Bush was enough. And what he threatened with, one can only guess. However, I learned that he threatened to end American investment in India in all its forms. For the Indians, cost was too high.

So don't assume that US cannot do anything about Kashmir. It has the power and leverage to address this conflict, should it want to. Even by force. However, US had been exercising restraint for the sake of maintaining decent relations with Pakistan and India. But for how long. remains to be seen. A solid reason is that the possibility of nuclear war in the region is real.

 

[third eye]

Well, that's unfortunately it is going to come to: LoC = IB per Musharraf-Manmohan understanding.

I thought Mush had a 4 point formula like :

Four Point Solution to Kashmir Issue:

1. Borders to remain as it is (on Maps) and people on either side of the Line of control (LoC) to be allowed to move freely.
2. Self-Governance or autonomous status (not independence) to Jammu and Kashmir along with Pakistan Occupied Kashmir for internal Management in all areas like trade, tourism, waters etc to maximize socio-economic development of the region through cooperation.
3. Troops to be withdrawn from the region in a phased manner
4. A joint supervising mechanism to supervise the implementation of such a road-map for Kashmir. This comprises of Indian, Pakistani and Kashmiri representatives.

At that time Musharraf had wanted the Chenab formula.

If I recall correctly , it was something like this , please correct me if I am wrong.

Current Status:

After proposed Chenab Formula :

 

[Adonis]

You recall the standoff between Pakistan and India in 2002? Indian armed forces were position on the border and India looked set to attack on a moment's notice. Then, suddenly, Indian government called it off. So what happened in your opinion? A single call from President Bush was enough. And what he threatened with, one can only guess. However, I learned that he threatened to end American investment in India in all its forms. For the Indians, cost was too high.

So don't assume that US cannot do anything about Kashmir. It has the power and leverage to address this conflict, should it want to. Even by force. However, US had been exercising restraint for the sake of maintaining decent relations with Pakistan and India. But for how long. remains to be seen. A solid reason is that the possibility of nuclear war in the region is real.

But mate your thinking is one sided...What if he says US knows your nuke stores/ launch sites and will strike them off if u don't handover Kashmir under your occupation OR make it an international boundary?

In 2002 you were the most important ally of US against war on terror....9/11 was recent and US knew it cannot do much in Af-Pak region without your help, taking action on 9/11 perpetrators was the priority...Time has changed since then...US wants India, both economically and militarily, so...this time phone call could be for the other side...

 

[third eye]

So don't assume that US cannot do anything about Kashmir. It has the power and leverage to address this conflict, should it want to. Even by force. However, US had been exercising restraint for the sake of maintaining decent relations with Pakistan and India. But for how long. remains to be seen. A solid reason is that the possibility of nuclear war in the region is real.

While there is no disputing what you have written but the bottom line is that both India & Pak are in a situation to show two fingers to US ( each for for different reasons ) if their own interests are compromised beyond a line.

 

[ashok321]

Trump’s ‘deal-making skills’ can help resolve Kashmir: US VP-elect Mike Pence

If only India agrees upon the process & proposal, which India will not, in all likelihood.

 

[LeGenD]

But mate your thinking is one sided...What if he says US knows your nuke stores/ launch sites and will strike them off if u don't handover Kashmir under your occupation OR make it an international boundary?

In 2002 you were the most important ally of US against war on terror....9/11 was recent and US knew it cannot do much in Af-Pak region without your help, taking action on 9/11 perpetrators was the priority...Time has changed since then...US wants India, both economically and militarily, so...this time phone call could be for the other side...

Yes, a forceful settlement of Kashmir dispute might not favor Pakistan (or) India (or) perhaps both.

US might not be willing to go that far for the sake of regional stability and additional factors. One reason is that US itself risks getting embroiled in a war that is not its own.

Still, American pressure might force both Pakistan and India to come to negotiation table.

While there is no disputing what you have written but the bottom line is that both India & Pak are in a situation to show two fingers to US ( each for for different reasons ) if their own interests are compromised beyond a line.

View attachment 358585

Right

 

[abc123xyx]

has any of these big powers in last 50 years ever halp stuck a peace deal to resolve anything,??

NO !!

and do you know why ??

 

[LeGenD]

has any of these big powers in last 50 years ever halp stuck a peace deal to resolve anything,??

NO !!

and do you know why ??

Business (and profitability from sales of arms).

 

[Centurion2016]

Nobody can help Pakistan to get the Indians to negotiate away Kashmir based on force of threat of business reduced and investment reduced..

If any body thinks that a nation the size and importance of India can be bullied or persuaded to act against its national interests people are dreaming.

USA does not give a dam about Pakistan demands on kashmir and neither do Arabs or the west .

That is the reason you are alone in this dispute.

If the world got involved you Pakistanis will be stunned as they will make loc the border

 

[abc123xyx]

Business (and profitability from sales of arms).

yes , thats one ,

like the one we seen in libya , french were after libiyan oil ....

other is , such conflicts help these powers tk gaining and graduallly increaes their influence into the subjected countries.....its a diffrent way of imperialsum and colonisation....

quwait , afganistan , libiya , iraq.....

and now in syria...

 

[padamchen]

I thought Mush had a 4 point formula like :

Four Point Solution to Kashmir Issue:

1. Borders to remain as it is (on Maps) and people on either side of the Line of control (LoC) to be allowed to move freely.

Unacceptable. Unworkable. Or he was joking.

 

[That Guy]

As long as there are Baloch who lift the gun against the state, you are always going to have a problem. You have just compounded the problem with the Chinese. Not solved it. As time will tell.

I did not mention Karachi. You did. But yes, Karachi has demographic potential. Which funnily increases with every day of India moving far away from Pakistan economically, and with it so do its Muslims. With every year of Hindus and Muslims living together as brothers. The pull of the motherland and the ties to the soil remain strong.

We have no real problem in Kashmir. Let me help you with perspective again. It's getting to be a habit. A few million citizens in a frump does not really matter to a 1.3 billion behemoth. We are just sad for them. So many stones to throw, so little time. And now no money. Life can be so unfair when you are a Kashmiri professional freelance stone pelter.

Funny how you contradict your own statements. If Baluchistan is a problem for Pakistan (it really isn't anymore), than Kashmir is a problem for India.

Your double standard is ridiculous, and much like a lot of people, you over-inflate India's might and future potential, and underestimate Pakistan's.

Lole I said before, your perspectives are unneeded and not asked for; your perspectives have so far been garbage.

 

[padamchen]

Funny how you contradict your own statements. If Baluchistan is a problem for Pakistan (it really isn't anymore), than Kashmir is a problem for India.

I thought the same about your post actually. You say you have magically solved Balochistan cause you've broken the back of Indian efforts there. Yet you say we have a problem in Kashmir. How many times do you think we have broken the back of Pakistani funded terrorism in Kashmir? Yet every new generation needs to be tackled afresh. That is the same with Balochistan. Every new generation will lift the gun.

Your double standard is ridiculous, and much like a lot of people, you over-inflate India's might and future potential, and underestimate Pakistan's.

Nothing to over inflate. We have a proven track record where you are concerned. You on the other hand have nothing.

Lole I said before, your perspectives are unneeded and not asked for; your perspectives have so far been garbage.

A pearl will remain a pearl, regardless of who it is cast before my friend.