True Crime - Case 3 - Hit and Run Murder

[Mrc]

Why none of dna is matching?? There is another perpetrator??

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

This is one messed up case.
Were 3 guys in a tiny VW Beetle? Bite marks/DNA don't match any of them. Some guy confessed, VW fixed and repainted.

Could have been 4 guys in the car. For some reason they all aren't talking about the 4th.
Maybe he accidentally left evidence, he panicked, said he was going to go to the police to confess and they decided to toss him in a river instead and kept their mouths shut.

VW damaged. They were all in the car. That makes them all accessories. They all face jail.

One or more of the guys in the car murdered her.

Does the bloody shirt match any of the guys size? Probably all of them are similar in size.

 

[jhungary]

I presume the car guys that the woman sought help from made this call.. Right?

No, it was another woman who saw the mangled bike on the side of the road near Diana's home. The caller who actually found Diana call at 5:47

Who made this call???

The woman who found Diana 5 mile away from her home

How would one of her shoe come off and fall off one mile away from the first crime scene? Was her feet dangling out that means?

That's a question for you, her shoe was found approximately 1 mile (give or take) in front of the bicycle. While next to her bicycle have a strand of hair and pool of blood and a broken watch

1. 1. 
      This hair belong to the victim I presume? That was also a mile away from the first crime scene? Tha
   2. means she was out of the vehicle at this area

No, her hair was found near the pool of blood. Which is near the gravel next to her bicycle.

Few more queries that props up immediately:

1. If she was a total outsider and not known to the locals, how come she had a local boyfriend?
2. The woman who heard and found the victim, was she known to any of the suspects or the victim's boyfriend?
3. Any other description for this woman? Age, build, background etc.
4. How far is the second crime scene from the service road?
5. Are any of the suspect regular at fishing?? How else would they know about the convenient opening on the fishing trail?
6. How big was the sheet that was found under the victim? Was it like a bedspread / bed-sheet?

[/quote]

1.) She has been in the area for 2 weeks, her sister is a local, she went to visit her sister because her sister is getting Married. She could have met a guy in that 2 weeks time, and she is planning on staying. But for the purpose of this case, she is an out of town girl visiting her sister with her Mother and Father

2.) No, she is an old lady live nearby.

3.) Old, approximately 50-55, I cannot tell you the background because it will indicate where this crime occur, all I can say is she is also a local.

4.) Next to the service road, she was found in a bush by the track.

5.) Don't know, not sure

6.) Sheet is a standard bed sheet so enough to cover Diana's whole body, it was used to prevent any evidence left on the scene the police speculated, as to why it was not taken away, there are no explanation for it.

Thanks for the tag.

Sounds like an interesting case.

• One thing that baffles me is why would anyone be ready with a sheet to rape? I mean who rapes with a sheet?I doubt if there was an attempt to rape at all.

There are no reason for it, police suspected either the rapist(s) don't want to get themselves dirty or they don't want Forensic Evidence to spill everywhere (Semen, Blood and so on) That's why the rapist(s) lay a sheet under her and that way, the sheet would have capture all the evidence, but the reason why the rapist(s) does not take away the sheet is unknown.

• Bite mark on her body could be a love bite too (IF it wasnt too deep).

Bite Mark is very deep, it drew blood.

• Her lingerie hanging on the tree makes it sound like a revenge attack.
• there wasn't enough time to rape her.4:40 the car hit her, 4:45 her screams are heard. Albeit 5 mins are sufficient to tear her clothes off and make it look like an attempt to rape.

Again, the 4:45 mark is the only known time the woman can tell the police because that's when she look at the clock. A recreation was made using a 4x4 where it took 15 minutes to transport Diana from the crash site to the discovery site.

So, you should be looking at the discovery time as anytime between 4:45 to 5:47 when they called the police.

@jhungary my observation!

ok --- let me shoot this one more time ----
Fred has a rape prior, others have a drug prior --- how long was that ago?
we cannot pick them up on these cases to grill no?? they are addicts, kids, we can break them?

[/quote]

A few months before the murder of Diana

You can pick them up and grill them and hoping for a confession, but there are no enough evidence to charge any one of them.

Well since i have a confession and clear cut indication (not evidence) based on what i am SURE of how things happened, i will not try to go any deeper and uncover things that create problems for me during trial. My sixth sense tells me this is how it all happened, i have a confession, i will close the case at that.

This will really be my closing note for this case (on my diary may be)

Cool Just make sure you don't need more detail on the case

First of all, look for fingerprints on the ripped clothes and on Diana's body, I think that fingerprints belonging to 2 persons will be found:
1) Her boyfriend
2)Another Suspect

Her clothing was torn (Bar from the shorts) and it's quite hard to lift fingerprint on a rough surface unless it is a patent print (ie a bloody fingerprint), so, no fingerprint was found to have belong to anyone.

The DNA samples likely belong to her b.f. and not any of the mentioned suspects, and are probably unrealted to the crime.

Maybe, but since they cannot be tested due to its degradation. And seems unlikely because Diana would have only spend 15 to 20 minutes in his home if she have left her home at 3 and leave her boyfriend home by 4 and she was biking the 7 mile one way journey.

I think the crime involved more than 1 person, and hence the DNA etc cannot be traced to a particular individual.

Also, I think that Fred is INNOCENT, he is most likely being forced to accept a crime that he did'nt confess by the actual criminal, this is because:
a)He stepped forward to 'confess' that he did it
b)He owns a shirt that is similiar to the one found on the crime scene,this means that someone wanted Fred to look like the criminal,also, having a similiar looking shirt does not count as solid evidence, that particular shirt could have been sold to millions of people.
c) DNA etc does not confirm that it was Fred.

What to do:
Interrogate Fred further to see if he shows signs of being afraid , since he has "confessed" ask him at what time did he alegedly conducted the attack and what kind of sexual acts did he perform, he probably wont be able to provide the correct answers,

Obtain DNA and Saliva samples from her b.f. and ask him whether he has a biting fetish

The suspects are the two brothers but I think that they were accompanied by a third person who as not been mentioned
Go to the crime scene and see if there are any foot prints, if yes then collect the size of foot print, the pattern made by the shoes etc and see if any of the suspects have such shoes,
collect finger prints from the tire iron

Suspect 2's vehicle was likely used to commit the crime, also, a witness says that all three were seen driving in tne car together, ask that witness to describe the faces of the guys that the witness saw.

I'll continue according to the response.

DNA also excluded the brothers. I have to say here, the existence of DNA evidence usually point to guilt, but lacking of DNA evidence does not automatically point to innocents on the other hand. Just that they don't have the DNA, it may proof guilt or they may proof innocent, we don't know.

The BF is cleared as a suspect, you cannot ask him to provide DNA unless he wanted to...And the DNA from the sheet is from the rapist, because she would not have brought it from her boyfriend and It's illogical for Diana to have taken the sheet out of her boyfriend bed after they allegedly had sex and taken with her on her way home if you know what I mean?...

CSI Already done, no useable footprint and no useable DNA and fingerprint evidence on the Tire Iron.

The witness on the surf spot have Positively ID the 3 suspects getting into a Purple VW Beetle going the same direction a girl on a bike just pass by, the witness did not PID Diana.

Why none of dna is matching?? There is another perpetrator??

Not sure, but just that the DNA and the bite mark did not match any of the suspect.

And this is the key to this case too

This is one messed up case.
Were 3 guys in a tiny VW Beetle? Bite marks/DNA don't match any of them. Some guy confessed, VW fixed and repainted.

Yes, 3 guys in the bugs, Bite Mark and testable DNA does not match any of them, Fred allegedly confessed. And yes the Bug allegedly involved in this is repaint and repaired.

Could have been 4 guys in the car. For some reason they all aren't talking about the 4th.

Could be, but then where they stash Diana in the car the 3 suspect is a big guy, (You will know why when I reveal where this crime had happened) and VW is a small car, if 4 of them instead of 3 of them in the car, that mean there are no place for Diana, they will have to put her outside the car or protrude outside the car or in the trunk

Maybe he accidentally left evidence, he panicked, said he was going to go to the police to confess and they decided to toss him in a river instead and kept their mouths shut.

VW damaged. They were all in the car. That makes them all accessories. They all face jail.

lol, that's a good reasoning, it could be, but as I said, it would be hard to have 4 people in a small VW. But it could be.

One or more of the guys in the car murdered her.

Does the bloody shirt match any of the guys size? Probably all of them are similar in size.

Well considering Diana was alive when she was found, everyone involve in this crime can be charge with Felony Murder because she was killed in the process of crime, and even tho they did not kill her outright, she died from that crime, and thus, if you can proof that any or all of these 3 suspects is involved in either Hit and Run or Rape, you can charge any or all of them Felony Murder (If Rape and H&R) Second Degree Murder (if only Hit and Run) .

The shirt is the same size as Fred, and his GF tell the Police he own the same shirt (I mean he own that same colour and same pattern, not that particular shirt)[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Could be, but then where they stash Diana in the car the 3 suspect is a big guy, (You will know why when I reveal where this crime had happened) and VW is a small car, if 4 of them instead of 3 of them in the car, that mean there are no place for Diana, they will have to put her outside the car or protrude outside the car or in the trunk



lol, that's a good reasoning, it could be, but as I said, it would be hard to have 4 people in a small VW. But it could be.



Well considering Diana was alive when she was found, everyone involve in this crime can be charge with Felony Murder because she was killed in the process of crime, and even tho they did not kill her outright, she died from that crime, and thus, if you can proof that any or all of these 3 suspects is involved in either Hit and Run or Rape, you can charge any or all of them Felony Murder (If Rape and H&R) Second Degree Murder (if only Hit and Run) .

The shirt is the same size as Fred, and his GF tell the Police he own the same shirt (I mean he own that same colour and same pattern, not that particular shirt)

I highly doubt they were worried about comfort. Maybe they pulled her across their laps and that's how one guy's shirt was covered in blood. Or heck maybe the 4th guy was told to squeeze himself under the hood and that's why he was angry.

 

[jhungary]

I highly doubt they were worried about comfort. Maybe they pulled her across their laps and that's how one guy's shirt was covered in blood. Or heck maybe the 4th guy was told to squeeze himself under the hood and that's why he was angry.

Well, you till cannot appear to be too odd, I mean people will notice if you have a girl leg dangle inside a car or people got all squished when you drive that 5 miles...

 

[I.R.A]

I have studied the case (the thread) again, this revisiting the questions and op has made me realise I haven't paid much attention to the details. After reading everything again I have selected few excerpts of interest and would like your input and answers to my questions and observations listed below ........

She saw a girl, with her jean short and panty pulled down on her ankle, with her leg spread open, her top have been ripped off and pull over the shoulder and her bra was hanging on a nearby tree.

Again and again every detail points to a gang rape at some point, the victim has been violated brutally and it is not possible for one person to overcome an athletic healthy girl and at the same time subject her to such lust and bestiality. And the gang rape means there is more than one suspect involved .......... so the three suspects cannot and shouldn't be let go scot-free ...... they are a confirm party to this case ........ for me its only to understand was it a rape case only or these three were assisting someone 4th.

Evidence found in both scenes is listed as follow

1. Tire Mark belong to a car was found accelerating toward the opposite side and ram Diana's bicycle

1. Diana's watch left on the collision scene
2. 1 of Diana's Shoe left on above a mile away from the collision scene
3. Pool of blood on the side of the road, belong to Diana near the collision scene
4. 1 strand of hair (blond) found near the shoe belong to Diana
5. Wreckage for Diana's bicycle was found on the collision scene. Shown mark of vehicle collision.
6. Diana's bra was found on a tree near where Diana was found.
7. Diana's another shoes (Matching the shoe found on the collision scene) on the trail leading to Diana
8. A Large men shirt was found beside Diana with Diana Blood on it.
9. DNA (Semen Sample) was found on Diana's Vagina and her panty and a sheet .

[/QUOTE]

VW Beetle is a small car for four people to fit in (this has already been discussed) .......... My questions

1. The tire mark found on the collision scene ......... has it been matched with suspected vehicle VW beetle? Is it possible to know to which car these marks belong to?

2. The location of strand of hair and shoe point to involvement of another car, Diana may have been hit by VW beetle and then transported a mile towards the fishing spot and there shifted to another car to carry her to fishing spot.

3. Pool of blood near the collision seen ......... if Diana was bleeding profusely (which doesn't make any sense at all, what is meant by pool of blood in quantitative measures? ...... and which part of the body?) from start then the VW beetle's trunk or seats should have her blood (depending on if VW beetle was involved) ......... here is what I want to do about confirmation of this VW beetle involvement ............ approach the auto store or car mechanic who repaired this beetle (it has been mentioned that this car got repaired and repainted) ...... that mechanic should be able to share the nature and details of damage to the car ........... the time when it was brought to him and who brought it to him.

4. Have the suspects been medically examined (I guess they have been, to confirm the bite marks and match the DNA) ........... to confirm if there were any fresh bruises, nail marks etc on their bodies? The watch, the shoe, the strand of hair all suggest Diana did struggle to free her of the clutches of the perpetrators ......... this struggle should have resulted in at least some bruised etc.

5. Is it possible to track who was the buyer of that sheet and shirt from the stores they were bought from?

6. The involvement of sheet is making me feel uncomfortable towards the boyfriend ..... don't know why but no rapist would carry a sheet to hide all the evidence unless they already had planned the rape and knew when and where to commit it .......... otherwise the sheet points to someone who wanted it to be all romantic and bit comfortable given the place where he wished to have the sexual interaction with the girl. Her boyfriends thoughts (quoted below in one of the excerpts) are pretty weird last thoughts you know ........ thinking about her body deprived of any emotional attachment and he hasn't been her boyfriend for too long (two weeks?) ..... I have my reasons to believe that he hasn't been able to lay his hands on Diana during all this time and he is finding it hard to resist now.

Witness testimony saw all 3 suspects drive off on a Purple VW Beetle after a woman on a bike (Presumed to be Diana)

So all three of them cannot deny that they know each other. Which one of them (I guess Fred) tried saying that he doesn't know the brothers.

Suspects 2 vehicle match the damage part of Diana's bike. And the vehicle was subsequently repair and repaint to yellow.

Again the auto store or the mechanic who did the repair and repaint job needs to be questioned as I stated above.

DNA sample collected on Diana panty and vagina was too degraded to test but the DNA retrieve on a sheet under Diana is tested negative on all 3 suspects.

Sheet, last weird thoughts and Diana's BF ............. who is the alibi of her BF?

I think we won't have any access to information on people who visited that fishing spot that day?

Bite mark on Diana does not match any of the suspect

All I can say is some other pervert was fishing that day ......... someone who found Diana there with all her clothes removed laying there ........ and that may be the point when she screamed and attracted attention of the woman.

Before that I don't know I have this feeling that she knew one of the guys present on rape scene.

A tire iron similar to the one that used to hit Diana head with was found near suspect 1 house, no DNA or trace evidence was found to link the tire iron on the commission of crime.

J this is confusing man ............. was she hit at the rape spot or was she hit at the collision spot? If she was brought to rape spot bleeding then the trail surrounding leading to rape spot must have her blood .......... and if she was not bleeding that profusely then what it means by pool of blood near the collision spot?

The tire iron ........ which car? I think they don't come in standard size fit for all?

the brother make a U-Turn, accelerate and hit Diana and then drag Diana in the car, putting her in the trunk and bring her to the fishing spot

Do the tyre marks match VW beetle?

and the brother take turn raping Diana,

Not before the real rapist was done with her ........... and its surprising that the three of them (if all them raped her) used condoms and the fourth one wanted to impregnate Diana ......... unless he practiced coitus interruptus .......

There is lot of information missing J

Finger nails scraping
Saliva, Vaginal and anal
Bruises
Body fluids

Come on man there must be something to start with?

We don't have Fred's DNA and Semen detection in database? He has been there before.

and eventually Fred alleged that he take out a tire iron form the VW Beetle and hit Diana in the head to put her out of her misery."

Nonsense ......... VW beetle may have been there but there was another car involved. VW beetle and four people including three big ones ...... the space is not enough to fit all four (including the victim)

When the detective confront the brother on this, the brother refuse to admit they know Fred.

We have witness who saw all three of them going after a girl on a bike in a beetle.

Otherwise the current evidence would have suggest if the 3 suspects did it, they wear condom while there exist a 4th suspect, who choose not to wear one.

Refer my points above.

And second thing you can do is try to put Fred in the crime scene.

In my view he is the key to this case.

The BF last thought on Diana is and I quote

"I watched her peddle away and I was thinking to myself that she was such a beautiful girl. The road was so messed up, and she was wearing tight shorts that left little to the imagination, and it could be very easy to wipe out going down the road. I thought to myself, ‘Don’t scar up those beautiful legs.’”

Is it only me who finds this statement deprived of any emotional attachment? I get it the guy wants her to be safe and everything but it hints at as if he is thoroughly possessed by the girl's body .......... and I don't think he has been able to take her to his bed at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the end after typing all this I am left confused myself ....... the BF, Fred, or another totally irrelevant pervert. Sheet, tire iron, pool of blood, watch, strand of hair ...... timing and distance and on top of everything VW beetle and four people to fit in.

 

[Arsalan]

Cool Just make sure you don't need more detail on the case

I would have! But now with a confession and a DNA sample that do not matches any of the suspects (who have confessed, i will want to close it swiftly as i am not sure if i can find any more evidence and my own understanding, my sixth sense and the confession all indicate that the three kids are guilty.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I would have! But now with a confession and a DNA sample that do not matches any of the suspects (who have confessed, i will want to close it swiftly as i am not sure if i can find any more evidence and my own understanding, my sixth sense and the confession all indicate that the three kids are guilty.

Pretty much agree.
The three or four guys were in the car when it knocked her off the bike. The girls ends up dead. They never turned themselves in. So they all are accessories to a crime even if it was Irving driving. There's evidence she was abducted. They all go to jail. Then there is proven assault and blugeoning evidence. So now one of more of them has an even longer prison sentence.

All you do is cut a deal with one of them (probably Steven) to rat out the killer. This is either Fred (likely) or the 4th guy.

One thing a policeman friend of mine said once that always stuck in my head was "most criminals are stupid...that's why they are criminals..they don't have the intellect to hold a 9 to 5 job. I'd walk up to somebody and before I had a chance to ask a question they'd reply 'hey if you are here to question me about John Smith who got shot twice in the head and 3 times in the stomach about a half hour ago infront of no witnesses then I have no idea about it'. My friend would reply "wow..hands up ...you are under arrest!"

That confession says it all.

 

[punit]

There is enough evidence of three beetle guys being involved here. Water board them a couple of times.

 

[Amaa'n]

6.) Sheet is a standard bed sheet so enough to cover Diana's whole body, it was used to prevent any evidence left on the scene the police speculated, as to why it was not taken away, there are no explanation for it.

There are no reason for it, police suspected either the rapist(s) don't want to get themselves dirty or they don't want Forensic Evidence to spill everywhere (Semen, Blood and so on) That's why the rapist(s) lay a sheet under her and that way, the sheet would have capture all the evidence, but the reason why the rapist(s) does not take away the sheet is unknown.


Again, the 4:45 mark is the only known time the woman can tell the police because that's when she look at the clock. A recreation was made using a 4x4 where it took 15 minutes to transport Diana from the crash site to the discovery site.

So, you should be looking at the discovery time as anytime between 4:45 to 5:47 when they called the police.
A few months before the murder of Diana
You can pick them up and grill them and hoping for a confession, but there are no enough evidence to charge any one of them.


Her clothing was torn (Bar from the shorts) and it's quite hard to lift fingerprint on a rough surface unless it is a patent print (ie a bloody fingerprint), so, no fingerprint was found to have belong to anyone.


Maybe, but since they cannot be tested due to its degradation. And seems unlikely because Diana would have only spend 15 to 20 minutes in his home if she have left her home at 3 and leave her boyfriend home by 4 and she was biking the 7 mile one way journey.

DNA also excluded the brothers. I have to say here, the existence of DNA evidence usually point to guilt, but lacking of DNA evidence does not automatically point to innocents on the other hand. Just that they don't have the DNA, it may proof guilt or they may proof innocent, we don't know.

So what is fred and the rest of the lot doing outside? should n't they be held up?
again as you said DNA will prove the guilt,, but look at the timeline, it had been a while till she reached hospital & am sure doctors priority was to save the girl rather than swabbing her pelvic for dna ---- also with so many people present and assisting her, the dna would be gone by then or as they say crime scene is contaminated ----

The bedsheet, the anger, it all points to two things, either the person involved in rape was already familiar with the proceedings, hence the bed sheet ----
Fred has a rape prior right?, hes the adult too? so he must have brought the bed sheet and later to be removed for clean up ---- they left the bed sheet because they left in haste ---- the woman who discovered Diana, they must have heard her coming so they did a runner ----

 

[I.R.A]

the woman who discovered Diana, they must have heard her coming so they did a runner ----

The woman should have seen the car too then or at least the noise of a car leaving the spot in hurry? They took the girl off the road to that spot, if they decided to run on foot they should have left their car behind ......... or else Diana took long to scream for help, long enough for the perpetrators to flee the scene in their car ............ and if that was the case then it doesn't make any sense for them to leave behind the sheet. I have my doubts that there was someone present at the rape location, whom she knew.

 

[Amaa'n]

The woman should have seen the car too then or at least the noise of a car leaving the spot in hurry? They took the girl off the road to that spot, if they decided to run on foot they should have left their car behind ......... or else Diana took long to scream for help, long enough for the perpetrators to flee the scene in their car ............ and if that was the case then it doesn't make any sense for them to leave behind the sheet. I have my doubts that there was someone present at the rape location, whom she knew.

lady is 55yrs old, she has trouble remembering the time, so i would give it a benefit of doubt, also as said in OP, it was a while till the woman discovered Diana,also the suspect could have turned around the vehicle and went the other way and fled the scene

 

[I.R.A]

lady is 55yrs old, she has trouble remembering the time, so i would give it a benefit of doubt, also as said in OP, it was a while till the woman discovered Diana,also the suspect could have turned around the vehicle and went the other way and fled the scene

Can be ...........

The lady responded to scream(s) of the girl (otherwise the girl would have remained there and most probably died there), but when she found her the girl was hardly able to say "Please help me" .... doesn't make sense ..... why the girl didn't scream before or during the ordeal ......... or if she did then the lady took too long to search and reach her, long enough to afford rapists and killer the time to flee the scene conveniently. And the signs clearly tell that girl was brutally gang raped ..... meaning the rapists had enough time to fulfill their fantasies .......... which again points to why would they leave the sheet behind when they had all the time? ........

 

[Mrc]

Was there a 2nd car??

 

[I.R.A]

Was there a 2nd car??

We don't know ..... my guess is there was another car.........