Traders pull down shutters across Pakistan against WHT

[Jango]

Dar Sb. ki waja say bardasht kar laita ho warna aisa hay nahi

So tell me then, is tax say hoga kia?

I mean if a person is doing a transaction greater than 50k at one time, then he would be in the well settled middle class category or a rich person...so why is it a problem bringing him into the tax net?

 

[Dubious]

Who is responsible for the loss of billions as a result of these strikes? Next country wide strike on this issue scheduled at 5th August.

Noonies while a lot about loss of billions because of PTI dharna, what about loss of billions as a result of floods (which govts have failed to plan and stop despite ruling provinces for ages), and strikes as a result of poor policies of govt?

I asked the same question last year...Still waiting for a reply

So what purpose do these taxes serve anyways ?

make rich people fatter....it is alternative to sugar

 

[Faiez]

So tell me then, is tax say hoga kia?

I mean if a person is doing a transaction greater than 50k at one time, then he would be in the well settled middle class category or a rich person...so why is it a problem bringing him into the tax net?

The biggest impact is in business. With holding taxes mean the business now requires extra cash to keep running. Meaning lower profitability.

 

[I.R.A]

So tell me then, is tax say hoga kia?

I mean if a person is doing a transaction greater than 50k at one time, then he would be in the well settled middle class category or a rich person...so why is it a problem bringing him into the tax net?

The problem is not bringing someone into tax net; the problem is foolishness that surrounds all this. First thing the E-filing of returns is not that easy to understand, people who have no clue about this they spend money on consultants to get their returns filed, i.e. an extra cost that they have to bear and it also shows your system is not taxpayer friendly. Secondly there are no measures in place to make sure that this tax is not collected from people whose annual income is exempt (just keep in mind 14% on internet charges and its users), thirdly if you plan to bring traders only in tax net through this then be specific about it make sure law says that and adds penalties for passing on this tax, but it is applicable across the board again no surety that it would be collected from people who should not be taxed. And what makes Dar Sb. so sure that people will file their returns after this (system not taxpayer friendly)? And the main reason these traders never got registered in first place is because tax people used to collect bhatta style tax off the books from them.


Bahi PKR 50,000 is not a reasonable threshold, increase the limit, normal house rent in Islamabad has gone up to 60K+ for a well built neat clean portion (not whole house), itna to eid, qurbani, shadio may arams say lag jata hai, and then again people who should not get taxed will get taxed without getting a refund.


Frankly speaking the whole idea of taxing the expenditures sucks, it is not justified. Last time it was WHT on education fee of more than PKR200,000 p.a and this time its this gem.


And one of my friends was telling me once that Munshi Sb. once called one of senior partners of an audit firm in Lahore and advised him to prepare a report on the issues that industry is facing, partner obliged did all the homework and when it was time to present it to bary Munshi Sb., Munshi sb. said leave it, I am thinking about taxing the telecom sector it is earning very high, what do you have to say? I mean this the approach how taxes are being implemented.

 

[Viper0011.]

You living in US and (without knowing me) and telling me to pay taxes and file my return is funny by the way.

However, answer me what is the current exemption limit provided in ITO 2001 for annual income? If you cannot answer then keep your bla bla to yourself because I regularly pay my taxes and file my annual return and I know the ITO 2001 better than you..

I thought if you made below 400,000 Pakistani rupees, you are exempt. BUT....that ALSO means you declare your assets. In other words, if you are "showing" your income at that minimal level, but really, either you are hiding the real income (called money laundering) or you have millions of assets spread under different family member's names (like your son or brother or daughter), it still is fraud. And the government will tax you on it.

Pakistan is one of the ONLY countries where the people are much more rich than the government. This needs to be reversed. Over 70 years of no tax paying has made many of you guys billionaires.....but in reality, if the proper taxes were paid all along, Pakistan wouldn't have any debt and over the past 70 years, it would've built the metro buses, trains, internal industry on her own, due to large tax base.

Its time you pay back your dues and let your country run. The money people are having a cow over, isn't your to begin with. Tax evasion for 70 years, doesn't mean that people are above the laws. It means tax evasion was the norm. Now the new norm is to PAY taxes as the country needs to go forward and over a hundred million poor people need a better life than what they've had. So time to pay taxes. This isn't about NS or someone else. The tax system is screwed up for the past 70 years and your government has to look bad and beg foreigners for aid. If you want a prosperous country, you'll have to do your part....and a major part is to pay taxes on time!!

 

[B@KH]

LOL!

Clearly the Bottom Line is that No one Knows how to run a Country.

All ruining the country together.

pathetic.

no one has mercy on poor people.

tax upon tax upon tax upon tax.

this all taxation is only to confuse and squeeze people.

Create Non Issues as much as possible.

 

[VCheng]

Tax rates are amongst the highest in the world. There's a reason why people evade taxes.

It's not like they can decide how much tax to pay, it's a one way thing. Once you're in the tax net, there's no going back and you pay very very heavy taxes. So people have two options, either to pay a very very heavy tax (for which in return they get nothing by the way) or use illegal means to evade taxes.

If the government increases tax collection and starts actively targeting tax evaders, the economy will take a big hit. The country might even go into a recession.

Please keep in mind that most people in Pakistan do pay taxes, albeit indirect ones rather than direct, which makes for a regressive rather than progressive taxation regimen.

 

[I.R.A]

QUOTE="Viper0011., post: 7465641, member: 41405"]I thought if you made below 400,000 Pakistani rupees, you are exempt. BUT....that ALSO means you declare your assets. In other words, if you are "showing" your income at that minimal level, but really, either you are hiding the real income (called money laundering) or you have millions of assets spread under different family member's names (like your son or brother or daughter), it still is fraud. And the government will tax you on it.

Pakistanis one of the ONLY countries where the people are much more rich than the government. This needs to be reversed. Over 70 years of no tax paying has made many of you guys billionaires.....but in reality, if the proper taxes were paid all along, Pakistan wouldn't have any debt and over the past 70 years, it would've built the metro buses, trains, internal industry on her own, due to large tax base.

Its time you pay back your dues and let your country run. The money people are having a cow over, isn't your to begin with. Tax evasion for 70 years, doesn't mean that people are above the laws. It means tax evasion was the norm. Now the new norm is to PAY taxes as the country needs to go forward and over a hundred million poor people need a better life than what they've had. So time to pay taxes. This isn't about NS or someone else. The tax system is screwed up for the past 70 years and your government has to look bad and beg foreigners for aid. If you want a prosperous country, you'll have to do your part....and a major part is to pay taxes on time!![/QUOTE]

Well sir the exemption threshold is PKR400,000. Legally anybody earning below this should not pay tax, but GoP's foolish policies even makes student of Pakistan to pay tax. If that happens in US or any other country please do share. For the wealth statement the limit is PKR 500,000 and it is the same limit when you are required to file your annual income tax return.

Now coming to the part regarding tax evasions............................... well due to liquidity problems and needs for funds Pakistan's taxes mostly work based on deduction at source, that is when someone gets taxed if he is getting paid or spending money. So literally every common Pakistani gets the chance of paying taxes irrespective of whether he is legally liable to pay or not. The ones who are not are the landlords, agriculturists, business tycoons, who turn out to be the same corrupt lot who gets elected everytime and unfortunately are the lawmakers of Pakistan (half of them are even fake degree holders). Now tell me how is it fault of a common Pakistani? He gets taxed at source without his consent, and to the top of that add FBR workforce, people staff working there are mostly inefficient and have limited knowledge themselves. And what is happening is people who are already paying taxes are getting taxed at higher rates again to meet the unrealistic targets of FBR.

Based on my limited knowledge if you want to increase the tax revenues make the laws simpler, adopt single rates and make tax system taxpayer friendly. Right now you get a headache everytime you search some section in Income Tax Ordinance.

 

[Faiez]

Please keep in mind that most people in Pakistan do pay taxes, albeit indirect ones rather than direct, which makes for a regressive rather than progressive taxation regimen.

Don't get me started on the sales tax and custom duties etc....

 

[VCheng]

Don't get me started on the sales tax and custom duties etc....

They are also part of the taxation system.

 

[I.R.A]

They are also part of the taxation system.

A very vague and confusing part by the way.

 

[Faiez]

I thought if you made below 400,000 Pakistani rupees, you are exempt. BUT....that ALSO means you declare your assets. In other words, if you are "showing" your income at that minimal level, but really, either you are hiding the real income (called money laundering) or you have millions of assets spread under different family member's names (like your son or brother or daughter), it still is fraud. And the government will tax you on it.

Pakistan is one of the ONLY countries where the people are much more rich than the government. This needs to be reversed. Over 70 years of no tax paying has made many of you guys billionaires.....but in reality, if the proper taxes were paid all along, Pakistan wouldn't have any debt and over the past 70 years, it would've built the metro buses, trains, internal industry on her own, due to large tax base.

Its time you pay back your dues and let your country run. The money people are having a cow over, isn't your to begin with. Tax evasion for 70 years, doesn't mean that people are above the laws. It means tax evasion was the norm. Now the new norm is to PAY taxes as the country needs to go forward and over a hundred million poor people need a better life than what they've had. So time to pay taxes. This isn't about NS or someone else. The tax system is screwed up for the past 70 years and your government has to look bad and beg foreigners for aid. If you want a prosperous country, you'll have to do your part....and a major part is to pay taxes on time!!

You can voluntarily file tax return. There are other provisions in the law that require in certain very specific cases that tax return be filed even if the income is below 400k/annum.

Money laundering is not hiding money. Money laundering is infact the opposite. You show the government that the money is from legitimate sources through fancy paper work and contacts, when it's not. That's money laundering.

As far as gifting property to family etc, that's perfectly legal. Once a person has assets amounting to a certain minimum level, you are now required to file wealth statement/tax return. So if a person transfers property to his wife's name, now his wife if caught by FBR, will have to file return and may even be questioned about the source of money.

So it's not fraud and is covered by the law.

What you see in movie/dramas etc that as soon as some criminal guy is about to get caught or defaults etc, he starts transferring his assets to family etc. That's to protect his assets from being taken over by creditors/government. That's a separate thing.

Sorry, can't collect taxes with tax rates too high and government's investment efficiency too low.

You socialist just assume that Gov=Progress, Private=Corrupt. That's not true.

A very vague and confusing part by the way.

They're not vague or confusing, they're pretty simple/straight forward, except the rates are too high.

They are also part of the taxation system.

but we were discussing direct taxes.........

 

[VCheng]

but we were discussing direct taxes.........

Yes, but the direct taxes are only a small part of the overall tax burden. Counting leaves and missing the forest?

 

[I.R.A]

They're not vague or confusing, they're pretty simple/straight forward, except the rates are too high.

Sorry buddy won't agree to that, when you have an unlimited number of SROs in addition to the Sales Tax Act, then the things get confusing. You don't know straight away what is exempt and what is taxable unless you have gone through all the SROs that form part of the Law.

 

[Faiez]

Yes, but the direct taxes are only a small part of the overall tax burden. Counting leaves and missing the forest?

I like indirect taxes better. Tax everyone the same, rich or poor. The gov. get a tiny cut on everything sold. I like that.

Direct taxes in my opinion are unfair unless the tax rate is the same for everyone.