Top 3 best and worst Ottoman/Turkish generals

[KemalPasa]

IMHO Turkic generals were much better than Ottoman generals.

Turkic generals such as Timur raped Beyazid and put him in a cage:

Let's be real. Ottomans were highly incompetent against Russians (almost lost all wars against Russians). We lost Balkan wars and almost lost all European land. Only thanks to Ataturk we retained Istanbul and east-Thrace. Ottomans also f-ed up siege of Vienna and many other wars. After 17th century Ottomans were a joke. Europeans called Ottomans sick man of Europe.

The worst of it. Last Ottoman Sultan made agreement with Europeans to divide up Turkey for the sole purpose of keeping his seat. He was a coward and fled with British ships to UK where he died. It is very sad ending of Ottoman history but we have to accept it.

What did you expect? Ottoman Empire was rapidly declining on every area not only militarily. I don't even want to mention the huge unrest within the army and the country. If we were fighting with African clans not the Russians, we would've lose it anyway.

 

[LegionnairE]

Pointless, Its a very huge time frame there are too many good and bad military leaders chosing 3 would be not even close to reality

Ataturk was a great political leader , but his military career is not that great , I dont mean bad but clearly not plays for top , I cant recall any military genuises from Republic period as well

That's bolshevik Vitaly - YouTube
He was a great tactician, he predicted three out of three landing points brits would be using in gallipoli peninsula out of six possibilities. He had a great theorical understanding of warfare he predicted the changes that would happen in military doctrines with some of his famous words.

"Hattı müdafa yoktur sathı müdafa vardır" (end of trench warfare) If Ataturk was french there'd be no maginot line he was a visionary.
"İstikbal göklerdedir" English: "future is in the skies" he could predict what rest of the world would be learning from the experiences of WWII.

Suck on that..

Nobody here mentions Osman,founder of the dinasty?

Osman and his son Orhan were good cavalry commanders since back then army still consisted mainly of nomadic Turks/Turkics they were great tacticians back in their time but I wouldn't mention them as some of best Turkish generals of the history. We have way too many great soldiers and heroes in our history.

The army we had was relatively easier to command compared to later artillery-oriented Ottoman armies. If it comes to that I'd nominate the Scourge of God
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila_the_Hun

 

[flamer84]

Osman and his son Orhan were good cavalry commanders since back then army still consisted mainly of nomadic Turks/Turkics they were great tacticians back in their time but I wouldn't mention them as some of best Turkish generals of the history. We have way too many great soldiers and heroes in our history.

The army we had was relatively easier to command compared to later artillery-oriented Ottoman armies. If it comes to that I'd nominate the Scourge of God
Attila - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes my friend but he represents the beginning of the ottoman dinasty and only for that,in my book,he deserves his place among the greatest.My 2 cents though.

 

[ELTurco]

IMHO Turkic generals were much better than Ottoman generals.

Turkic generals such as Timur raped Beyazid and put him in a cage:

Let's be real. Ottomans were highly incompetent against Russians (almost lost all wars against Russians). We lost Balkan wars and almost lost all European land. Only thanks to Ataturk we retained Istanbul and east-Thrace. Ottomans also f-ed up siege of Vienna and many other wars. After 17th century Ottomans were a joke. Europeans called Ottomans sick man of Europe.

The worst of it. Last Ottoman Sultan made agreement with Europeans to divide up Turkey for the sole purpose of keeping his seat. He was a coward and fled with British ships to UK where he died. It is very sad ending of Ottoman history but we have to accept it.

Sen ecdadimiz hakkinda nebicim konusuyorsun boyle edepsiz..

Yildirim Beyazid was a hero may he rest in peace.. he was captured while fighting Timurid Army alongside his elite troops..

He could leave the scene his Army was already eliminated but he and his couple of hundred last ones left Elite troops/ bodyguards charged the Timurid army..

 

[flamer84]

Sen ecdadimiz hakkinda nebicim konusuyorsun boyle edepsiz..

Yildirim Beyazid was a hero may he rest in peace.. he was captured while fighting Timurid Army alongside his elite troops..

He could leave the scene his Army was already eliminated but he and his couple of hundred last ones left Elite troops/ bodyguards charged the Timurid army..

He was betrayed by his troops but when his vassal the serbian Lazarevic offered him a way out he chosed to stay alongside his troops to the end.Honour him guys! He sure wasn't a coward.

 

[Saleem]

IMHO Turkic generals were much better than Ottoman generals.

Turkic generals such as Timur raped Beyazid and put him in a cage:

Let's be real. Ottomans were highly incompetent against Russians (almost lost all wars against Russians). We lost Balkan wars and almost lost all European land. Only thanks to Ataturk we retained Istanbul and east-Thrace. Ottomans also f-ed up siege of Vienna and many other wars. After 17th century Ottomans were a joke. Europeans called Ottomans sick man of Europe.

The worst of it. Last Ottoman Sultan made agreement with Europeans to divide up Turkey for the sole purpose of keeping his seat. He was a coward and fled with British ships to UK where he died. It is very sad ending of Ottoman history but we have to accept it.

it is interesting that you mention this.......once I tried to see when the osmanlis started losing against the rus..from the net [principally wikipedia for lack of time], it seems that from 1520 onwards the osmanlis lost al their wars with the rus...it ios only the west european cetnric view that says that the siege of vienna was the start of their decline [1689]..

 

[Killuminati]

Its not up to us to criticizing leaders from the past. Who are we?

 

[atatwolf]

Its not up to us to criticizing leaders from the past. Who are we?

It is not about criticizing but seeing the truth. If Ottomans lost all wars against Russians, that is the way it is. No need to make it rosy and fluffy and pretend it didn't happen. At the end everybody list his own personal favorites.

 

[Neptune]

Upon 4 pages of discussion. I think now this thread deserves to be moved to Military History

 

[LegionnairE]

It is not about criticizing but seeing the truth. If Ottomans lost all wars against Russians, that is the way it is. No need to make it rosy and fluffy and pretend it didn't happen. At the end everybody list his own personal favorites.

We may have lost most of the wars against Ruskies the blame goes to Baltacı Mehmed Pasha for letting Petro I. go without bloodshed when he surrounded his army. Because of his mistake Russia has grown in power so rapidly they surpassed our military capabilities.
Baltacı Mehmet Pasha

But We have fought valiantly against superior numbers and did our best. Gazi Osman Pasha in particular fought with bravery and honor. During the siege of Plevna it was the first time in history when trenches were deployed so massively.

 

[A1Kaid]

My top 3:

Best Generals:
1. Ataturk (undefeated record and defeated bigger and better equipment enemy with strategy and knowledge he learned from his study)
2. Pamukoglu (Succesful general fighting PKK terrorist, we need to follow his strategy)
3. Alp Arslan (won multiple bigger armies with his relatively smaller army)

Worst generals:
1. Necdet Özel (What kind of general bows down to terrorist organization? Our ancestors never did this. Also he keeps his mouth shut when signs of Turkish Republic are taken down)
2. Enver Pasha (He had good intentions but he was diluted and his sarikamis campaign we lost whole army, army that were needed elsewhere)
3. Kara Mustafa (he was incompetent, after his stupid mistakes, we not only failed siege of Vienna but empire declined after humiliating defeat)

What is your top 3? Motivation is appreciated.

Mustafa Kemal Pasha wasn't "undefeated" he lost in the Battle of Megiddo, he luckily escaped from that battle for his survival.


Please read an earlier post I made about this subject.

Mustafa Kemal Pasha's War Record (not entire list)

Battle of Tobruk 1911, Italy vs Ottoman Empire: Ottoman Empire Victory (although Italy won the war after Ottoman Empire surrendered North African territories)

Battle of Megiddo 1918, British Empire/British India and Arab tribes vs Ottoman Empire (German assistance in command): British crushing victory (extremely difficult battle to win for Ottomans)

Battle of Sakarya 1921, Greeks vs Turks: Turkish strategic victory


Battle of Dumlupınar 1922, Greeks vs Turks: Turkish crushing victory

Battle of Çanakkale 1915-16, Allied Powers-Britain, Australia, New Zealand, British India, France vs Ottoman Empire (with German assistance): Heroic Ottoman victory

Battle of Izmir 1922, Kingdom of Greece vs Ottoman Empire: Ottoman crushing victory, end of the Turkish Independence War

From these notable battles his record stands at 5 victories, 1 defeat. I think he was involved in additional battles as a leading officer but these were the main notable battles he led in.

So he did win the majority of his battles and engagements, so he is arguably the best Muslim military commander of the 20th century. Another very impressive officer was Fahreddin Pasha of the Ottoman army very critical in Bulgaria and Middle East theater in WWI.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...rk-greatest-muslim-general-20th-centuary.html

 

[gr8vision]

We may have lost most of the wars against Ruskies the blame goes to Baltacı Mehmed Pasha for letting Petro I. go without bloodshed when he surrounded his army. Because of his mistake Russia has grown in power so rapidly they surpassed our military capabilities.
Baltacı Mehmet Pasha

But We have fought valiantly against superior numbers and did our best. Gazi Osman Pasha in particular fought with bravery and honor. During the siege of Plevna it was the first time in history when trenches were deployed so massively.

When fighting either Ottoman Empire or Qajar Empire, Russian Empire probably never had quantitative superiority in the number of troops.

 

[LegionnairE]

When fighting either Ottoman Empire or Qajar Empire, Russian Empire probably never had quantitative superiority in the number of troops.

They've had 3 to 1 quantitive superiority during the battle of Plevne.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Plevna

But Gazi osman pasha made a balls out valiant defense and inflicted heavy casualities on Russian forces.

 

[flamer84]

They've had 3 to 1 quantitive superiority during the battle of Plevne.
Siege of Plevna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But Gazi osman pasha made a balls out valiant defense and inflicted heavy casualities on Russian forces.

The russians couldn't take Plevna,they had to call for romanian help after they've dismissed it at first.They've even gave prince Carol the overall command in the battle out of desperation.

 

[gr8vision]

They've had 3 to 1 quantitive superiority during the battle of Plevne.
Siege of Plevna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But Gazi osman pasha made a balls out valiant defense and inflicted heavy casualities on Russian forces.

OK, that's one instance. Any other? They had smaller forces when invading eastern Turkey (Kars, Erzerum, Ardahan, Beyazid, etc).