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To Stay or not to Stay in Afghanistan...uncertainty in Brussels

Neptune

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Secretary of State John Kerry speaks with NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, prior to the NATO Foreign Affairs Ministers meeting held at the organisation's headquarters in Brussels, on December 3, 2013.

By Elise Labott

NATO warned it may be forced to withdraw all of its troops from Afghanistan by the end of next year if President Hamid Karzai doesn’t sign a security agreement with the United States.

Reached last month, the pact lays out the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan after 2014, when the NATO-led force of some 80,000 troops is scheduled to leave.

Although the agreement was endorsed by the Afghan council of tribal leaders, called the Loya Jirga, Karzai said he won’t sign it until after elections in April.

Uncertainty over the agreement is causing mounting anxiety among diplomats here, where Afghanistan is dominating talks among NATO ministers, including Secretary of State John Kerry.

NATO wants the agreement with the United States signed before it finalizes its own accord with the Afghan government, as it is to be modeled after the one Afghanistan reached with the Obama administration.

Without it, Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen warned the alliance would be unable to shape a future military presence.

“In that case, we don’t have a proper legal framework in place and it will not be possible to deploy a ‘train, advise, assist’ mission to Afghanistan after 2014,” he said, adding he hoped Karzai would follow the advice of the Loya Jirga and sign the agreement.

“It is my firm hope and intention, therefore, to continue our efforts to support Afghanistan, once these agreements are concluded,” Rasmussen said.

Because the United States is expected to supply the bulk of forces for any post-2014 mission, any presence is unlikely without a signed agreement between Washington and Kabul.

Karzai has said he won’t sign until certain conditions are met. These include promises from the United States of no more raids on Afghan homes and that Afghan prisoners will be released from the Guantanamo Bay detention center.

Washington has resisted such changes, saying Karzai’s demands are new provisions added to a deal that was already reached.

National Security Adviser Susan Rice traveled to Kabul last week, where, according to senior U.S. officials, she warned Karzai the United States would begin pulling out troops in 2014 if he failed to sign the agreement by the end of the year.

“We consider that the Loya Jirga represents the will of the Afghan people, and it’s time to move on with it,” a senior State Department official said.

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Turkish, German troops in Afghanistan during a road check in Kabul Province.

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A Turkish Army UH-60M Blackhawk being pulled out from it's hangar before a NATO mission.

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Debris of the Blackhawk which crashed on a house in Kabul at March 2012, killing all Turkish troops aboard which has been the second deadliest single incient casuality of coalition troops.

Uncertainty over security clouds NATO talks on Afghanistan – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs
 
Afghans simply don't like foreigners. But in case of Indians, they have no problem because of historical ties with us.
 
You can't change what've been said and you cannot start panic once thy end is near

The die has been cast long time ago, we could have done more, they could have done more, but we didn't. From the looks of its it seemed like another Vietnam for me.

They got too little people to fill the void of combine NATO/US troop, he'll it wasn't even enough when the NATO and American were here. Seems like the Taliban is going to come back and if I were Karzai, and I don't want civil war, a deal should be struck with Taliban, not the US
 


1.Afghans would be disappointed if there were no foreign troops to take pot shot at. Without invaders they would soon get bored and start fighting among themselves. That's their history.

2. Some reports suggest India may be lured by the Americans to place some force here. Historically Afghans have,almost as a seasonal hobby,invaded/raided/looted the plains of Hindustan. The mountain range, Hindukush derives its name from this fact. Hindu Kush meaning Kill Hindu! Afghans would love the target to present itself at home.

3. But the Turks under Edrogan are on the wrong side in Afghanistan.
 
Afghans simply don't like foreigners. But in case of Indians, they have no problem because of historical ties with us.
If you are suggesting that the Afghans would welcome Indian military presence in their country , you are dead wrong . The people on the other side of the Khyber Pass simply do not tolerate any invader regardless of blood or historical ties . You understand little of the psyche of the people who have been fighting within themselves for the last 200 years and whose history is unusual even by our standards , Krait .
 
If you are suggesting that the Afghans would welcome Indian military presence in their country , you are dead wrong . The people on the other side of the Khyber Pass simply do not tolerate any invader regardless of blood or historical ties . You understand little of the psyche of the people who have been fighting within themselves for the last 200 years and whose history is unusual even by our standards , Krait .
Oh no. I never advocated Indian soldiers in Afghanistan. Not at all. Its just in relative to Americans or Chinese.

P.S. BTW Loved your Signature. Usual Suspects -> Mullahs.
 
Oh no. I never advocated Indian soldiers in Afghanistan. Not at all. Its just in relative to Americans or Chinese.

P.S. BTW Loved your Signature. Usual Suspects -> Mullahs.
I thought othwerwise , putting troops on ground in that country is a recipe for disaster for everyone , even if the OIC was to do that combined , the Afghans wouldn't give two hoots about the word Muslims . Best left alone , something I wish my country should have learned earlier and I agree with @jhungary that Karzai is indeed negotiating with the wrong people .

Found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt , not suspects .
 
Anyone who wants to stay in Afghanistan post 2014/15. God help you :)
 
Anyone who wants to stay in Afghanistan post 2014/15. God help you :)

yeah. ıt's us among with US, Germany and Italy. we're not only gonna stay. we may increase the 1,800 man force's scale. We'll also replace the infantry in there with professional forces. But I agree with you. Even the Turkish forces will face attacks after the withdrawal.
 
yeah. ıt's us among with US, Germany and Italy. we're not only gonna stay. we may increase the 1,800 man force's scale. We'll also replace the infantry in there with professional forces. But I agree with you. Even the Turkish forces will face attacks after the withdrawal.

The problem is with the shifting dynamic in Afghanistan, post depart of major combat forces and support arms from Af, the environment is such that outside the bubble of of Kabul the ground reality is Kabul don't control shit.

It's all warlords, Taliban and mixed allegiances. There is a reason even USAID has to pay Baksheesh to get their containers out of Kabul to deliver aid to the "AFGHAN" people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/world/asia/06warlords.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
^ Good read!
 
The problem is with the shifting dynamic in Afghanistan, post depart of major combat forces and support arms from Af, the environment is such that outside the bubble of of Kabul the ground reality is Kabul don't control shit.

It's all warlords, Taliban and mixed allegiances. There is a reason even USAID has to pay Baksheesh to get their containers out of Kabul to deliver aid to the "AFGHAN" people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/world/asia/06warlords.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
^ Good read!

seems like a very interesting article in deed. reading it now ;)

Yea force an agreement, we call this underground mafia....Where you force "protection" after escalating the problem!

a very nice creature you have Talon..


btw where were you* long time no see. come to naswar, or PM now :D
 
orce an agreement, we call this underground mafia....Where

a very nice creature you have Talon..


btw where were you* long time no see. come to naswar, or PM now :D[/quote]
What creature? :unsure:
 
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