Time to take a firm stand on the Durand Line

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

The people of KPK, including FATA, have made it clear they are Pakistanis, and they are the people of the land, hence, Afghanistan has no claim to it. Pretty clear. The issue will not be resolved diplomatically unless Afghanistan drops the issue, and that is the only option they have -- Pakistan's military might dwarfs Afghanistan's without even taking into account the full extent of Pakistan's arsenal (missiles, fighter jets, etc.).

 

[miss]

British Raj has gone, that is past. If you are so interested in the past, look at your own Afghans past also.

No, Pakistan is suffering thanks to you guys, you Afghans are the reason we are in this mess, you Afghans are the pure reason we are suffering and have suffered. Hadn't it been for the Afghans, things might have been totally different. The mess creators are Afghans and today we all have been dragged into this shiet hole and suffering.

If you still don't know about your past history, go and learn about it and see who fcked up when and where and why we are in this sheit together.

Can't control your own country for decades and claiming right on KPK to which you can't reach in next 50 years. Your this dream will never suffice, we will resist to the last.

So, tell Afghans to shut up and mind their own country and try to come together to make peace in Afghanistan rather then thinking to fcuk with Pakistan.

I disagree that Afghanis started the issue. They were first invaded by USSR. then the Paksitanis and Americans readicalised them by creating mujahideen forces. then the US ditched pak and Afg. The Durand line being porous and not very strict, the Taliban started operating both in Afg and Pak.
So it is debatable whether the afghan taliban are afghans or Pakistanis. But they are Pashtuns. So its a bit of a mess in that area. So if Pakistanis say that Afg are responsible for the mess in pak, they are wrong. Pak was the one who helped create the mess and fed the monster of taliban.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You are confused!

Sher, That's not the right thing to say.

The bottom line is that both Afghanistan and Pakistan should finalize the border and respect it.


peace

I disagree that Afghanis started the issue. They were first invaded by USSR....

USSR invasion was the result of "infighting" between Afghanistanis.

If they were united, no other power could invade them. Its that simple.


peace

 

[miss]

Sher, That's not the right thing to say.

The bottom line is that both Afghanistan and Pakistan should finalize the border and respect it.


peace



USSR invasion was the result of "infighting" between Afghanistanis.

If they were united, no other power could invade them. Its that simple.


peace

ok, but thats not the reason why they were radicalised.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

In my opinion Afghanistan should recognize durand line as an international border and give up on pashtun areas of Pakistan. This way Pakistan would stop interfering in Afghanistan and wont try to destabilize it, and afghans should focus on progress and development of their country. Moreover i have observed that lar pashtuns are integrated into pakistan, consider it their country, are loyal to it and dont think about pakhtunistan/loy afghanistan. Even pakhtun nationalists are working with framework of Pakistan.

 

[Armstrong]

The way we - Non-Pashtun Pakistanis - see it :

Lar Pashtun - Our own flesh & blood & there is no sacrifice that can't & shouldn't be given for their protection & progress. It is our failing that FATA & the adjoining areas have not been developed due to the corruption, nepotism & failings of successive governments. Inshallah as soon as we get our country back from these politicians & bureaucrats who'd sell their soul for a bit of $$$, we'd see the people of KPK, FATA & the rest of Pakistan realizing their god-given potential that can propel them to both economic & social progress.

Bar Pashtun - May God Bless them & their country but they're not part of the family like the Lars are ! Period. I'd feel sad for them, I'd pray for them & I'd even help them out but I don't owe them anything the way I owe Lar Pashtuns - my Pakistani brethren !

In my opinion Afghanistan should recognize durand line as an international border and give up on pashtun areas of Pakistan. This way Pakistan would stop interfering in Afghanistan and wont try to destabilize it, and afghans should focus on progress and development of their country. Moreover i have observed that lar pashtuns are integrated into pakistan, consider it their country, are loyal to it and dont think about pakhtunistan/loy afghanistan. Even pakhtun nationalists are working with framework of Pakistan.

Who are you & what the hell did you do to Monkey D Luffy ?

Rora, I knew that with love we'd win you over & we have !

 

[FaujHistorian]

ok, but thats not the reason why they were radicalised.

Thanks for sharing the understanding,

In pre-1979 Afghans were radicalized between commies and anti-commies. Their infighting and refusal to sit down and resolve issues ultimately lead to Commie invasion. Why?

They came into Afghanistan to protect the commie radicals.

In response,

anti-commie radicals started a civil war.

Other parties just "helped".


peace

 

[miss]

Thanks for sharing the understanding,

In pre-1979 Afghans were radicalized between commies and anti-commies. Their infighting and refusal to sit down and resolve issues ultimately lead to Commie invasion. Why?

They came into Afghanistan to protect the commie radicals.

In response,

anti-commie radicals started a civil war.

Other parties just "helped".


peace

Ok, Agreed, but Pakistan CHOSE to "help" in the radicalization of the anti-commies. They could have also chosen to be neutral. they had a choice, made it and now they are paying the price. So its unfair to blame afghans as cause for the mess in pak. Isnt it?

Let me give an indian example. In the early eighties India supported LTTE because the SL tamils were being oppressed and discriminated. They very quickly realised that this will backfire and stopped support to LTTE altogether. Even this small amount of support led to an Indian PM being assassinated. Pakistan is completely enmeshed in the whole jihad and afhan scenario and will find it much more difficult to come out of it.

 

[A.Rafay]

This is not a old issue , everyday the corrupt Karzai asks US about this Durand line , and puts forward illegal demands and they refuse , yesterday only Victoria Durand of America gave statement about the line that US don't want to interfere in this issues and recognize the line as international border of Pakistan . What made her give this statement it's Karzai , he's having pain in a$s !

 

[FaujHistorian]

Ok, Agreed, but Pakistan CHOSE to "help" in the radicalization of the anti-commies. They could have also chosen to be neutral. they had a choice, made it and now they are paying the price. So its unfair to blame afghans as cause for the mess in pak. Isnt it?
.

Agreed. in hindsight Pakistan should have stayed neutral,

But remember hindsight is always 20/20 Right?

Bottom line is that Afghanistanis should take responsibility for the mess on their side'

And

Pakistanis should do the same for our side.

Enough of the blame game already.

We are housing millions of Afghanistani refugees. We should either make them Pakistani citizens or send them back, But it is not good to leave them in limbo.


Every ounce of food and fuel for Afghanistan goes through Pakistan. DUTY FREE.

In return we only expect Afghanistanis to respect our borders. Is that too much to ask?

.....
Let me give an indian example. In the early eighties India supported LTTE because the SL tamils were being oppressed and discriminated. T.

Tamil example is good but irrelevant,

Here is why! No super power was directly involved in the mess. it was local issue.

Afghanistani mess was international, and a mud-wrestling match between two super powers. As every ounce of fuel and every ounce of food goes through Pakistan, DUTY FREE, that meant every AK-47 and every bullet also went through our land.

For Indians, more relevant example is the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Indians jumped up and down, cried at 200 decibel sound, begging Americans to take them along.

Why?

There were a lot of dollars and regional influence at stake. And Indians were ready to lay down every thing in front of Americans, clothes off!

Please do not take this as an offense.

This is how both Pakistan and Indians have behaved when it comes to USSR and USA.

it is time we BOTH got a backbone and did something to help each other, instead of becoming lackeys of one power or the other.


peace

 

[miss]

Agreed. in hindsight Pakistan should have stayed neutral,

But remember hindsight is always 20/20 Right?

Bottom line is that Afghanistanis should take responsibility for the mess on their side'

And

Pakistanis should do the same for our side.

Enough of the blame game already.

We are housing millions of Afghanistani refugees. We should either make them Pakistani citizens or send them back, But it is not good to leave them in limbo.


Every ounce of food and fuel for Afghanistan goes through Pakistan. DUTY FREE.

In return we only expect Afghanistanis to respect our borders. Is that too much to ask?





Tamil example is good but irrelevant,

Here is why! No super power was directly involved in the mess. it was local issue.

Afghanistani mess was international, and a mud-wrestling match between two super powers. As every ounce of fuel and every ounce of food goes through Pakistan, DUTY FREE, that meant every AK-47 and every bullet also went through our land.

For Indians, more relevant example is the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Indians jumped up and down, cried at 200 decibel sound, begging Americans to take them along.

Why?

There were a lot of dollars and regional influence at stake. And Indians were ready to lay down every thing in front of Americans, clothes off!

Please do not take this as an offense.

This is how both Pakistan and Indians have behaved when it comes to USSR and USA.

it is time we BOTH got a backbone and did something to help each other, instead of becoming lackeys of one power or the other.


peace

OK, the situation betwee tamil and afghan issue was a bit different due to superpower involvement. Afghans are responsible for mess in Afg and Pakistan is responsible for mess in Pak. both cannot point fingers.

Second, India did not try to despertely woo US to help in Afghan war. If you remember, it was the other way. Bush and his team desperately wanted India to be involved. In India there was a long debate on whther they should be involved but at last they said no quite emphatically, however offered logistical support. thats all. I disagre if you say that India was desperate for American dollars in the Afghan war. If you see India has been using its own resource to help build Afghanistan.

 

[arbit]

The people of KPK, including FATA, have made it clear they are Pakistanis, and they are the people of the land, hence, Afghanistan has no claim to it. Pretty clear. The issue will not be resolved diplomatically unless Afghanistan drops the issue, and that is the only option they have -- Pakistan's military might dwarfs Afghanistan's without even taking into account the full extent of Pakistan's arsenal (missiles, fighter jets, etc.).

That's the crux of the matter. It's not going to happen. In geopolitics niceties don't work as far as settling boundary issues are concerned. In this particular case a military solution seems tempting but wont be looked upon kindly by International community.

Damned if you do damned if you don't. Then there is the issue of ours influence which is only going to increase. This will make things more complicated for Pakistan.

Interesting times ahead.

Agreed. in hindsight Pakistan should have stayed neutral,

But remember hindsight is always 20/20 Right?

Retrospect is always the genius. Its foresight that really counts.

 

[FaujHistorian]

...................
......................

OK, the situation betwee tamil and afghan issue was a bit different due to superpower involvement. Afghans are responsible for mess in Afg and Pakistan is responsible for mess in Pak. both cannot point fingers.
.

Great. I am glad we agree on this.

......

Second, India did not try to despertely woo US to help in Afghan war. If you remember, it was the other way. Bush and his team desperately wanted India to be involved. In India there was a long debate on whther they should be involved but at last they said no quite emphatically, however offered logistical support. thats all. I disagre if you say that India was desperate for American dollars in the Afghan war. If you see India has been using its own resource to help build Afghanistan.

Please do not take things out of context. I said

******************
There were a lot of dollars and regional influence at stake. And Indians were ready to lay down every thing in front of Americans,
**********************

For India regional influence was the key motivator. Dollars are being spent in Afghanistan campaign. Regardless if they come out of American taxpayers' pockets or Indian taxpayers' pockets. dollars are dollars.

When dollars are at stake, many players are ready to jump in.

And

So did India.

There was obviously no reason for Indians to hop over Pakistan and get into Afghanistan. No reason.

That was a war between Talibaboons/Jih@dis and Americans. Not Indian.

You say logistical supplies from India. Please see the map and then the fallacy of the argument.

There are two main logistical routes to Afghanistan.

1. for 90% of things - Pakistan
2. for the remainder - northern route from EU-Russia-Stans.




So please let your nationalist emotions go for a moment, otherwise you and I will not see the things the same way.


peace

 

[miss]

...................
......................



Great. I am glad we agree on this.






Please do not take things out of context. I said

******************
There were a lot of dollars and regional influence at stake. And Indians were ready to lay down every thing in front of Americans,
**********************

For India regional influence was the key motivator. Dollars are being spent in Afghanistan campaign. Regardless if they come out of American taxpayers' pockets or Indian taxpayers' pockets. dollars are dollars.

When dollars are at stake, many players are ready to jump in.

And

So did India.

There was obviously no reason for Indians to hop over Pakistan and get into Afghanistan. No reason.

That was a war between Talibaboons/Jih@dis and Americans. Not Indian.

You say logistical supplies from India. Please see the map and then the fallacy of the argument.

There are two main logistical routes to Afghanistan.

1. for 90% of things - Pakistan
2. for the remainder - northern route from EU-Russia-Stans.




So please let your nationalist emotions go for a moment, otherwise you and I will not see the things the same way.


peace

from what i remember , i was fairly young then, indian govt did not agree to send troops. I think there was some agreement on refuelling etc. but not sure. india on her own went ahead and helped Afg on non combat related help like building infra structure schools etc.
Now, Indians never asked Americans to 'take them onboard' their campaign. but this is off topic completely,.

 

[Hashshāshīn]

Honestly, this is a stupid argument. So Afghanistan want the tribal areas of Pakistan because Pashtuns live there? So Afghanistan should give northern Afghanistan to Tajikistan as Tajik people live there. See? stupid argument. Makes no sense.