Time to Get Out of Afghanistan

[Developereo]

NATO continues to lose in Afghanistan for the simple reason that they have failed to win Afghan hearts and minds.

They can blame the Taliban, Pakistan, the Martians, but no one's buying the blame-shifting game.

Bottom line, they have had eight years and almost $200 billion to win over the Afghans.
And failed.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf

Congress has approved a total of about $864 billion for military operations, base security, reconstruction, foreign aid, embassy costs, and veterans’ health care for the three operations initiated since the 9/11 attacks: Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) Afghanistan and other counter terror operations; Operation Noble Eagle (ONE), providing enhanced security at military bases; and Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Congress is currently considering the FY2009 Spring Supplemental which includes war funds to cover the rest of the current fiscal year.

This $864 billion total covers all appropriations approved by Congress for FY2001 to meet war needs from FY2009 through the first part of FY2009, the current fiscal year. Of that total, CRS estimates that Iraq will receive about $642 billion (74%), OEF about $189 billion (20%), and enhanced base security about $28 billion (3%), with about $5 billion that CRS cannot allocate
(1%).

 

[Developereo]

and if this was done by Pakistani Air Force Pilot they would have called it Pakistan Air Force atrocities...look how western media is mum over this.

No, no, no. It would be called "terrorism".

Don't you know?
When Muslims kill civilians it is terrorism.
When NATO kills civilians, it is an "unfortunate mistake", "collateral damage", "setback", ... pick your euphemism.

 

[Developereo]

Poll Shows Most Americans Oppose War in Afghanistan - washingtonpost.com

Overall, seven in 10 Democrats say the war has not been worth its costs, and fewer than one in five support an increase in troop levels.

Republicans (70 percent say it is worth fighting) and conservatives (58 percent) remain the war's strongest backers, and the issue provides a rare point of GOP support for Obama's policies. A narrow majority of conservatives approve of the president's handling of the war (52 percent), as do more than four in 10 Republicans (43 percent).

Among all adults, 51 percent now say the war is not worth fighting, up six percentage points since last month and 10 since March. Less than half, 47 percent, say the war is worth its costs. Those strongly opposed (41 percent) outweigh strong proponents (31 percent).


Democracy in action? Let's wait and see...

 

[gambit]

No, no, no. It would be called "terrorism".

Don't you know?
When Muslims kill civilians it is terrorism.
When NATO kills civilians, it is an "unfortunate mistake", "collateral damage", "setback", ... pick your euphemism.

From my experience in field weapons testings, accidents do happen. I guess the suicide bomber, on his way to an American base, 'accidentally' fell down in the market square and the shock set off his explosive belt. So yes...I would reclassify that as an 'unfortunate mistake'.

 

[gambit]

"...what did America achieve in Vietnam, nothing, and became introvert afraid to openly intervene even for humanitarian reasons in many parts of the world until Bosnia and then very late into the conflict. "

Hmmm..., so our continuing engagement with NATO and so many other regional security forums from 1972-1994, support for the mujahideen in Afghanistan from 1980-1988, resupply of Israel during the Yom Kippur war in 1973, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon, Desert One, DESERT STORM, Haiti, and Somalia represent WHAT, exactly?

Successful or otherwise, I'd say the above constitute adequate evidence of our continuing global post-Vietnam engagement to render your views...

...naive?

Better dig into those history books a bit more before spouting any other such nonsense. Just now I'm sorta doubting you're even aware of when the Dayton accords were signed.

Kinda funny, eh? These guys just cannot keep their indictments of US consistent. One day we are timid after Vietnam, to afraid to even engage in humanitarian affairs. The next day someone will point out what warmongers we are all over the world.

 

[WarProfessor]

Poll Shows Most Americans Oppose War in Afghanistan - washingtonpost.com

Overall, seven in 10 Democrats say the war has not been worth its costs, and fewer than one in five support an increase in troop levels.

Republicans (70 percent say it is worth fighting) and conservatives (58 percent) remain the war's strongest backers, and the issue provides a rare point of GOP support for Obama's policies. A narrow majority of conservatives approve of the president's handling of the war (52 percent), as do more than four in 10 Republicans (43 percent).

Among all adults, 51 percent now say the war is not worth fighting, up six percentage points since last month and 10 since March. Less than half, 47 percent, say the war is worth its costs. Those strongly opposed (41 percent) outweigh strong proponents (31 percent).


Democracy in action? Let's wait and see...

Democracy only works when it's needed; or every 4 years.

Inflation has chipped in, maybe indeed the Afghan war has become too costly; or to throw pressure around to get Obama Health Bill. It's hard to believe Afghan situation is going to change before November.
It's a psyc prep for change. Or, someones have made enough money and are already satisfied.

 

[S-2]

"Kinda funny, eh? These guys just cannot keep their indictments of US consistent."

Collectively, children.

Not once in this conversation has anybody ATTEMPTED to refute what I've stated in REPLY to their ludicrous assertions. B.S. through and through yet the "thank you's" roll on. It's a nat'l obligation, don't you know, which defies the facts as (mis)represented here?

It is the sad state of affairs that we see Pakistan's future more clearly than they. Now and again distance gains perspective. This is one such case. May our congressional leaders soon also see these people for what they represent to America-

...an enemy.

Sixty years and a WORLD of aid since transmitted to find 50% of a population of 180,000,000 still illiterate. About 80% of all women. Who are we kidding? The west has been milked to sustain an army that doesn't deserve it's existance. Worse, were those illiteracy rates for the better, we'd have a productive and viable Pakistan that could fund it's own defense as it sees fit.

Not to be. More easily obtained to get OUR stupid governments to provide for the BMWs that their generals children drive. Go figure.

Americans are idiots. It really IS that simple.

We've ALL been had by their army. Some day that'll get figured out by those to whom it matters most but don't hold your breath.

 

[Developereo]

Collectively, children.

So, I presume this off-topic rant means you have run out of arguments to support your point of view.

 

[pakomar]

Are you suggesting that we invade Pakistan to find OBL? If so, it may be the first indication that you understand anything about this war, PROFESSOR

something you need to understand that CIA is play its game in which US people are victim.there are groups of taliban supported by CAI and what ever terrorism going on in Pakistan is American fault.India is supporting terrorism in Pakistan under US umbrella and TTP getting weapons from Afghanistan which is now US responsibility.

execute real democracy . what American people got chose in election either to support Iraq war or Afghanistan war in form of obama. if there was a third candidate whose policy to end war than i am sure American people will go for it.
American people have lost the will to fight the war .

 

[S-2]

"So, I presume this off-topic rant means you have run out of arguments to support your point of view."

You dont possess the merit of scholarship to condemn my views of Pakistan, America, and Afghanistan as "off-topic".

Don't be so presumptuous.

Instead, STUD, why don't you refute and, avoiding any haphazard removal from context, argue THE POINTS.

M.K. chose to be an absolutist with "always". Personally, I'd never be so arrogant about history nor statistical probabilities but that's just me.

Your argument?

Patriot, for some reason, thinks it's my nation's fcukin' job to secure your borders at a time of war for the American people. Sorry but we've other matters at hand and other things on our mind. Last of our worries, childlike in it's naivete or transparently duplicitous in it's deceit-your choice.

Get off your sanctimonious high horse. I'm an American that refuses to accede to the B.S. spewed here as anything but the urban myths for which they are. Serious scrutiny, even by selected "thinkers" of a higher order here, is ABSENT.

I've had it personally admitted to me by a think tank member that there's no way he'd express his full, unvarnished views here. He's got to live with you-literally.

Get it?

I hope fcukin' so...

Thanks.

 

[Developereo]

"So, I presume this off-topic rant means you have run out of arguments to support your point of view."

You dont possess the merit of scholarship to condemn my views of Pakistan, America, and Afghanistan as "off-topic".

I am not interested in your "debate" with the others. I was commenting on that particular post of yours which, like this last one, was an off-topic, bilious rant, high on emotion, and devoid of content.

Perhaps you need a lie down.

 

[S-2]

"...and what ever terrorism going on in Pakistan is American fault.India is supporting terrorism in Pakistan under US umbrella and TTP getting weapons from Afghanistan which is now US responsibility."

You're in self-denial.

That's pathetic.

 

[S-2]

"Yet another off-topic, bilious rant, high on emotion, and devoid of content.

Perhaps you need a lie down."

I'd have hoped that you'd shown more acumen than the above such.

Perhaps you need more game.

To date, it's notably weak.

Thanks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It was our DUTY to wage war upon our enemies.

It was your duty to have ensured that every opportunity outside of war to bring the alleged perpetrators of 911 to task was utilized - you did not do that, in fact refused to do that.

The Taliban's offer of a trial in a third country of choice should have been explored.

The US was too far gone into war mongering hysteria to care though.

The direct cost of that US warmongering hysteria for Pakistan now is thousands of its soldiers and civilians killed, and tens of billions in economic damages and a creaking economy.

 

[S-2]

"The Taliban's offer of a trial in a third country of choice should have been explored."

The rest of the globe disagreed.

"The US was too far gone into war mongering hysteria to care though."

CARE?

If we didn't care Afghanistan would have long since ceased to EXIST.

Quit playing to the crowd and put your rational WESTERN thinking cap back on...

...you know, the one for which you've paid so much tuition to absorb for your betterment.

Thanks.