Time to accept some hard realities...

[Developereo]

Being an "Islamist" in Pakistan is not such a bad thing. IK openly supported Taliban and still survived politically. And only after the PA started Zarb-e-Azb did IK stop defending these animals. And you can see that he is still popular. So there is not comparison with Egypt here. Brotherhood has a long history of persecution at Egyptian military / secularists / socialists hands. In Pakistan, Islamists and center-right wing parties have been very strong since Zia's time.

Imran Khan's hesitation against military action was not because he supported the Taliban, but because he was concerned that military action would cause massive civilian casualties.

In any case, PTI supporters are hardly pro-Taliban. The Islamist/Taliban angle doesn't come into discussion, since most of them are concerned with issues of governance.

 

[fatman17]

there is a massive media campaign led by Geo to 'demonize' IK as PK's worst nightmare. these media houses are being funded by political parties (that want to keep the status-quo) and govt. and provincial establishment 'wallas' (who also want to keep the status-quo). IK is fighting a uphill battle against these forces. only ARY and SAMAA TV are 'supporting' his cause but they were 'put-off-the-air' on 30th Nov by the establishment wallas (at least in Karachi). IK has an 'abrasive' personality which people may or may nor like but he has invigorated a large section of the population (middle class, educated, young, jobless) to not accept the 65-year-old status quo of corruption, nepotism, injustice any longer.......things are certainly coming to a 'head-on-collision' very soon.

 

[Bouncer]

Imran Khan's hesitation against military action was not because he supported the Taliban, but because he was concerned that military action would cause massive civilian casualties.

IK's main point might have been civilian casualties, but he ended up being a spokesman for TTP. He gave them space by insisting that they (TTP) were NOT wrong, just frustrated. He further popularized this false narrative that TTP are killing thousands of Pakistani because our state is working for the US interests, not Pakistan's. TTP were (and probably still are?) innocent in his eyes despite being given multiple chances at reconciliation. So, I am afraid, you are wrong when you claim that he didn't support TTP.

In any case, PTI supporters are hardly pro-Taliban. The Islamist/Taliban angle doesn't come into discussion, since most of them are concerned with issues of governance.

Pakistani's do not take terrorism as a partisan issue. That's why most of his supporters didn't take IK seriously when he was trying to oppose PA. You are right, IMO, that people support him because of his claims about governance.

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

ARMY will solve this sooner or later have no faith in judiciary or govt

I think bring in army into civilians issue will make the situation worst. Democratic ways are slow but steady and peace full . Supreme Court can be brought in too .Better than PA taking over

 

[WAJsal]

I think bring in army into civilians issue will make the situation worst. Democratic ways are slow but steady and peace full . Supreme Court can be brought in too .Better than PA taking over

lolz it funny because u said we will reach a solution ,starting of we dont have a democracy in pakistan ,PM puts his family members on national ministries for future experience when they can take over the dynasty, i hate this system PK,since no one will do anything about it makes me want the army to interfere

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Brother

lolz it funny because u said we will reach a solution ,starting of we dont have a democracy in pakistan ,PM puts his family members on national ministries for future experience when they can take over the dynasty, i hate this system PK,since no one will do anything about it makes me want the army to interfere

Democracy sucks and am an Indian I know about family parivar . It hurts our development . But bring in army is like giving blank check my brother. Cause needs of army is too expensive and corruption will take place thanks to our anti nationals who put self in front of nation . Hope you understand my point.

I just went thru some of the news reports on pak politics ... And I understand Wat u trying to say . SIT Probe must ordered ASAP .

 

[Developereo]

IK [...] popularized this false narrative that TTP are killing thousands of Pakistani because our state is working for the US interests, not Pakistan's

I agree that Imran Khan's excuses for TTP were getting ridiculous. Whatever alleged grievances TTP might claim, they are monsters and no sane person buys their excuses.

I am not too thrilled by IK's foreign policy positions. I support him because of his stance on domestic issues and the fact that it is imperative to get rid of the feudals and robber barons within the establishment.

 

[WAJsal]

Brother


Democracy sucks and am an Indian I know about family parivar . It hurts our development . But bring in army is like giving blank check my brother. Cause needs of army is too expensive and corruption will take place thanks to our anti nationals who put self in front of nation . Hope you understand my point.

I just went thru some of the news reports on pak politics ... And I understand Wat u trying to say . SIT Probe must ordered ASAP .

true but have you seen the first 3 years of musharrafs rule ,there was a significant improvement i can live with a dictator as long as he is delivering

 

[Jazzbot]

I have been reading these articles since about 2008. And then IK chickened out in '08. And then lost in '13. Nothing new here.

IK chickened out in 08? All parties democratic alliance (APDM) unanimously decided to boycott the elections 2008, IK + PMLN were all part of it, PMLN being most vocal. But then Noora ditched and jumped into the elections at last moment. If sticking to your words and commitments are chickening out, then we are better with such things.

And about 2013, all I have to say is. A total of 17 constituencies have been opened so far for PARTIAL AUDIT, and we have thousands of bogus votes identified. Shove it up.

 

[Bouncer]

IK chickened out in 08? All parties democratic alliance (APDM) unanimously decided to boycott the elections 2008, IK + PMLN were all part of it, PMLN being most vocal. But then Noora ditched and jumped into the elections at last moment. If sticking to your words and commitments are chickening out, then we are better with such things.

No sir, I did not say that. As your average aam aadmi , I'd trust IK with this country's governance than anyone else. But politics is dirty business everywhere. And IK was made a fool by NS in '08. As a leader, IK should have anticipated NS's move. This is what his supporters expected from him. Anyways this is history.

And about 2013, all I have to say is. A total of 17 constituencies have been opened so far for PARTIAL AUDIT, and we have thousands of bogus votes identified. Shove it up.

My information maybe incorrect, but even if IK's audit demands are met and PTI wins the disputed seats, they'd still not be able to make it. Like a majority of Pakistanis, I don't think that elections were 100% fair. But I disagree with IK's methods. First that failed civil disobedience and now these calls to paralyze entire country?

Hope I explained my POV.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But this is not the case. People waited for him also 1.5 years ago. what happens if after 3 years of wait we get again a rigged result? should we then wait an other 5 years? for how long should we accept this injustice?

As I have argued in the past, what are the specific reforms in the Election Commission that the PTI is asking for to ensure transparent, free and fair elections?

Are these specific proposals part of the negotiations with the PMLN? Merely demanding the resignation of the Nawaz Sharif will not accomplish anything since the system and institutions will remain broken.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

But this is not the case. People waited for him also 1.5 years ago. what happens if after 3 years of wait we get again a rigged result? should we then wait an other 5 years? for how long should we accept this injustice?

My indian brother, just imagine that you had voted for Modi, but somehow magically congress wins the election and rahul baba is your PM, will you wait another 3 years?

--
make system accoutable...
if Election commision of pak cant stand for nation .. its not possible even for IK to go ahed ...
election is centre point of democracy.. if you cant have it free and fair .. nothing will come
better have action plan with civil group.. media ... internation org.. to make system acountbale ..
a well hawk eyed media and civil group bring down rigging big way...

election can be rigged again. We have no trust on election commison of pakistan

then whom to trust?

 

[PurpleButcher]

As I have argued in the past, what are the specific reforms in the Election Commission that the PTI is asking for to ensure transparent, free and fair elections?

Are these specific proposals part of the negotiations with the PMLN? Merely demanding the resignation of the Nawaz Sharif will not accomplish anything since the system and institutions will remain broken.

Well first of all most of the laws i deem are there, it is a matter of implementation. They were not implemented in 2013 those who were supposed to implement them are roaming unpunished. It is not as if the laws did not exist, yes they are not fool proof, but even they have been violated.

To ensure free and fair elections two things are required
> first of all the culprits of the old law must be made an example to avoid such things in future. how the hell some votes ended up in gutters and tandoors? who were they? why did they do? which mna mpa was supporting those rascals? before we move on, the culprits must not go unpunished

> secondly, we need better fool proof system. i think bio metric system might be under discussion, but frankly as far as the specific proposals are concerned i think @Leader and @Jazzbot can answer you better

I being a supporter of PTI do agree that resignation of NS is not the solution, first we have to reform the electoral process by punishing the culprits and modifying the system.

make system accoutable...
if Election commision of pak cant stand for nation .. its not possible even for IK to go ahed ...
election is centre point of democracy.. if you cant have it free and fair .. nothing will come
better have action plan with civil group.. media ... internation org.. to make system acountbale ..
a well hawk eyed media and civil group bring down rigging big way...

This is what IK is trying to do, to bring the culprits to accountability. Media is bought, civil groups are weak and international org want a PM whom they can twist easily... so no hope for change form your mentioned options. we are left with street protests.

BTW:-> the system of justice in Pakistan > a 156 year old case is still running in lahore

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=382073138623167

watch the last ten seconds... so no hope of justice by decent means (

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Well first of all most of the laws i deem are there, it is a matter of implementation. They were not implemented in 2013 those who were supposed to implement them are roaming unpunished. It is not as if the laws did not exist, yes they are not fool proof, but even they have been violated.

To ensure free and fair elections two things are required
> first of all the culprits of the old law must be made an example to avoid such things in future. how the hell some votes ended up in gutters and tandoors? who were they? why did they do? which mna mpa was supporting those rascals? before we move on, the culprits must not go unpunished

> secondly, we need better fool proof system. i think bio metric system might be under discussion, but frankly as far as the specific proposals are concerned i think @Leader and @Jazzbot can answer you better

I being a supporter of PTI do agree that resignation of NS is not the solution, first we have to reform the electoral process by punishing the culprits and modifying the system.



This is what IK is trying to do, to bring the culprits to accountability. Media is bought, civil groups are weak and international org want a PM whom they can twist easily... so no hope for change form your mentioned options. we are left with street protests.

BTW:-> the system of justice in Pakistan > a 156 year old case is still running in lahore

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=382073138623167

watch the last ten seconds... so no hope of justice by decent means (

--
if SC of pak , ECP,civil serivice , media cant do aything then IK even after getting in power cant do much

Well first of all most of the laws i deem are there, it is a matter of implementation. They were not implemented in 2013 those who were supposed to implement them are roaming unpunished. It is not as if the laws did not exist, yes they are not fool proof, but even they have been violated.

To ensure free and fair elections two things are required
> first of all the culprits of the old law must be made an example to avoid such things in future. how the hell some votes ended up in gutters and tandoors? who were they? why did they do? which mna mpa was supporting those rascals? before we move on, the culprits must not go unpunished

> secondly, we need better fool proof system. i think bio metric system might be under discussion, but frankly as far as the specific proposals are concerned i think @Leader and @Jazzbot can answer you better

I being a supporter of PTI do agree that resignation of NS is not the solution, first we have to reform the electoral process by punishing the culprits and modifying the system.



This is what IK is trying to do, to bring the culprits to accountability. Media is bought, civil groups are weak and international org want a PM whom they can twist easily... so no hope for change form your mentioned options. we are left with street protests.

BTW:-> the system of justice in Pakistan > a 156 year old case is still running in lahore

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=382073138623167

watch the last ten seconds... so no hope of justice by decent means (

--
who will do all.. its system again .. same old CSS guys civil serive is backbone of nation .. so Election commsion
take help of China in election to be free and fair i know it extreme but extremt sitiatun need exteme solution as india help is not accpetbale to pak... Elec com of india is excelletn on fre an far elction of 840 milion voters

 

[batmannow]

if such is the case. people can wait for three more years and vote for Mr Imran khan.

Sure then again they will find same old faces rulling them out?
But not imran ?
Then again you would be suggesting him to wait 5 more years?
Then what?
Same circles , same faces , more swiss accounts, more surrey mahals , more Mayfair mansions?
The rulling Mafia can't just be beaten by voting its proven & we are beating the bushes because we have our own social & financial interests with them?
Its time we should face the realities.
& stop supporting the croupTed system & its croup beneficiaries !