Thread by request: Issues facing Pakistan and their potential solutions

[The Accountant]

The part that makes a private matter like religion the business of the State to be enforced by law.

Religion is a private matter is a western belief not belief of muslim world.

Furthermore religion is a hindrance in development of Pakistan is your opinion and not a fact. If you want to make it a fact you have to establish a relationship with proof.

We are in a world of science and technology so if you are making a claim you have to provide a proof otherwise its invalid.

 

[salarsikander]

Kindly don't impose your opinion. Give facts of the relationship between objective resolution's religious statements and current problems of Pakistan. Be objective with evidence and don't share your opinion please

It seems you don't know how the state actually works, do you?
the example that I posted for state IMPOSING ITS WIL ACCORDING TO RELIGION THAT ALL REST SHOULD CLOSE IN Ramadan is the example when you said that show me where Pakistan govt or state for that matter imposes it will regarding the religioous matter.

Ok, tell me if state starts to select religion and gives it a priority then tell me which Islam will the state follow ?
you have Shia, you have Bohri, sunni barelvi, Etc all of them are muslims but with their own understandings so which sects interpretation will the state follow then.

Also Please dont get unnecessarily emotional here as that makes your argument even weaker. Separation of religion from state doesn't make citizens any less of muslims. Can Any non-muslim become head in Pakistan / if not so why not ? does being a non muslim make you any less of Pakistani human being for that matter

Religion is a private matter is a western belief not belief of muslim world.

So religion is not a private matter then ? so will you answer for my sins youm al Qiyamah then ?

 

[VCheng]

Religion is a private matter is a western belief not belief of muslim world.

That is why I asked where in the Muslim world do you see proper implementation of religion as a matter of State, so that we can discuss it just like we discussed Israel above.

Furthermore religion is a hindrance in development of Pakistan is your opinion and not a fact. If you want to make it a fact you have to establish a relationship with proof.

Please stop being dishonest. Religion by itself is not a hindrance in development. Making it a matter of State to be enforced by force of law is the hindrance. The proof lies in the fact that equal treatment of all citizens under the law is impossible when religious beliefs of the citizens are different and the State enforces one particular religion or sect or set of beliefs.

We are in a world of science and technology so if you are making a claim you have to provide a proof otherwise its invalid.

Is the above valid enough for you?

 

[The Accountant]

That is why I asked where in the Muslim world do you see proper implementation of religion as a matter of State, so that we can discuss it just like we discussed Israel above.

For that first you have to conclude on matter Israel where religion is an incillary part of state. I have provided enough proof that state was created for the religion to be run by state.

Please stop being dishonest. Religion by itself is not a hindrance in development. Making it a matter of State to be enforced by force of law is the hindrance. The proof lies in the fact that equal treatment of all citizens under the law is impossible when religious beliefs of the citizens are different and the State enforces one particular religion or sect or set of beliefs.



Is the above valid enough for you?

Tell me the incident where citizens do not have equal rights as per islamic law other than religious rights ? Are they nit allowed the same food? Same business and job opportunities or same economic system ?

Furthermore you are saying that country is not being able to prosper because religious rights of 3% citizens are restricted ... this is absurd argument but even for the sake of argument i accept this then how india is prospering where even a greater no. Of musloms are denied of right to even eat cow

 

[VCheng]

For that first you have to conclude on matter Israel where religion is an incillary part of state. I have provided enough proof that state was created for the religion to be run by state.

You failed to provide a single quote from the Israeli documents you referred to that establishes a state religion to be enforced by law.

Tell me the incident where citizens do not have equal rights as per islamic law other than religious rights ? Are they nit allowed the same food? Same business and job opportunities or same economic system ?

Can a Christian owner keep his/her hotel open during Ramadan for clients?

 

[The Accountant]

You failed to provide a single quote from the Israeli documents you referred to that establishes a state religion to be enforced by law.



Can a Christian owner keep his/her hotel open during Ramadan for clients?

Is this his private matter or a community matter ?

If its a private matter in his home not offerred to others he can but if a community then offcourse he has to respect 97% of community

 

[VCheng]

Is this his private matter or a community matter ?

If its a private matter in his home not offerred to others he can but if a community then offcourse he has to respect 97% of community

Does this respect have to be enforced by law? Why is a minority prevented from conducting his lawful business?

 

[The Accountant]

By the way action speaks louder than words and we know actions of israel but as you insist here is the extract of declaration of independence

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles;
it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on
freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel


Envisaged by prophets israel

Does this respect have to be enforced by law? Why is a minority prevented from conducting his lawful business?

Kindly make your statement correct. Not minority but everyone is restricted to respect the harfship of 97% people.

Furthermore you still failled to explain the relationship between development of a nation of 220 million peoples on account of restriction of not opening of restaurants for a few hours during 1 month?

Kindly provide a scientific relation

 

[VCheng]

everyone is restricted to respect the harfship of 97% people.

Why? There is no compulsion or hardship in Islam.

Furthermore you still failled to explain the relationship between development of a nation of 220 million peoples on account of restriction of not opening of restaurants for a few hours during 1 month?

The hindrance to development comes from state enforcement of religion and meddling in private matters, of which I gave one example.

Kindly provide a scientific relation

Please see the above.

 

[The Accountant]

Why? There is no compulsion or hardship in Islam.



The hindrance to development comes from state enforcement of religion and meddling in private matters, of which I gave one example.



Please see the above.

1. Who told you there is no hardship in Islam ? Check the faith of 3 tribes of jews that were ordered to be killed and exilled out of madina.

See the war waged by Hazrat Abu Bakar RA on the people decloned to pay Zakat.

Read sorah tobah where non.believers were given the time to either leave arab or face the death penalty.

2. Restaurant is not a private matter but a community social and economic matter. Non muslims are free to do whatever they want at their home and places of warship.

3. Hiw does closing of restaurant has impact on current account deficit exports or imports ?

 

[VCheng]

1. Who told you there is no hardship in Islam ?

Allah Himself says so. Quran 22:78.

Restaurant is not a private matter but a community social and economic matter.

It is a lawful business that is forced to close for a month.

3. Hiw does closing of restaurant has impact on current account deficit exports or imports ?

But the legal framework that forces such closures also caused untold losses in other businesses by the same legal framework: Bank closure, holidays, altered timings etc. etc.

 

[The Accountant]

Allah Himself says so. Quran 22:78.



It is a lawful business that is forced to close for a month.



But the legal framework that forces such closures also caused untold losses in other businesses by the same legal framework: Bank closure, holidays, altered timings etc. etc.

1. Sellective reading. Read sorah e tobah.

2. It is being practiced in other countries as well. You are crying about few hours of month china remain completely closed for 7 days for chinese new year.
France have standard working day of 7 hours we have same or 6.5 if we include prayer breaks in ramadan
By your definition france should be more backward as 11 months they work less and in one month they work equivallent to us.

In my industry we achieve highest production in the month od ramadan. Do you know the economic activity associated with the ramadan and 2 eid ? The boast they give to the economy in the form of increased consumption is huge. Contrary to your belief and opinion in actual they are positive to the economy

 

[VCheng]

1. Sellective reading. Read sorah e tobah.

Where is 22:78 negated or superseded?

2. It is being practiced in other countries as well. You are crying about few hours of month china remain completely closed for 7 days for chinese new year.
France have standard working day of 7 hours we have same or 6.5 if we include prayer breaks in ramadan
By your definition france should be more backward as 11 months they work less and in one month they work equivallent to us.

Do either China or France have a state religion imposed by law?

In my industry we achieve highest production in the month od ramadan. Do you know the economic activity associated with the ramadan and 2 eid ? The boast they give to the economy in the form of increased consumption is huge. Contrary to your belief and opinion in actual they are positive to the economy

Those are the consequences of a majority Muslim population. It does not correlate in any rationale to impose a State Religion by law.

 

[The Accountant]

Where is 22:78 negated or superseded?



Do either China or France have a state religion imposed by law?



Those are the consequences of a majority Muslim population. It does not correlate in any rationale to impose a State Religion by law.

1. Do u accept one portion of quran and not other? If Allah is Rehman he is also al jabbar.

2. You said that islam forces to reduce the time and hence productivity is reduced and i provided evidence of two advance countries with reduced time and holidays and still developing. By which logic time is fine by other reasons but not due to religion. It means it is due to your personal biased against islam and not based on reason.

3. You failed to prove one single point where islam is hurdle in development of Pakistan so try focusing on real issues of illetracy rather than your own hatred for islam should be force upon 5% majority

 

[VCheng]

1. Do u accept one portion of quran and not other? If Allah is Rehman he is also al jabbar.

Then why are you denying 22:78? AstaghfirUllaaah.

2. You said that islam forces to reduce the time and hence productivity is reduced and i provided evidence of two advance countries with reduced time and holidays and still developing. By which logic time is fine by other reasons but not due to religion. It means it is due to your personal biased against islam and not based on reason.

Okay, what is the total number of religious and other holidays in both of those countries, and how does that correlated with GDP per capita and HDI?

3. You failed to prove one single point where islam is hurdle in development of Pakistan so try focusing on real issues of illetracy rather than your own hatred for islam should be force upon 5% majority

Please stop this dishonesty. Islam is not the hurdle in development. The State enforcement of religion by force of law is the hindrance. And I have no hatred of Islam. I have pity for your ignorance, that is all.