Thoughts of an InAF fighter pilot on the JF-17

[PakShaheen79]

PAFace

your comment

The reason why the JF-17 can be favorably compared to the F-16 is because they are two children of the same ideology. Lightweight Multi-role Fighters, with incredible WVR combat performance. The JF-17 is what the F-16 was always intended to be, which is why the aircraft is so vital to the PAF. For a "first" of almost everything in Pakistan, it can already be termed an engineering success story.

F16 has fantastic WVR performance but JF17 nobody knows its not yet performed in any scenarion not even mock combat with other fighters.

Let it complete its weapon integration tests and i assured you folks at PAF are waiting that to be completed more anxiously than you and me here. Current performance data is very critical for future upgrades on Thunders.

Engineering on the plane is Russian engine and chinease radars and weapons unless i have missed some electronics involvement from PAC. ????

Engines will be Chinese too even current engine is tailored to fit in Thunder (change in gearbox position of original RD-33) next from 51st plane Thunder is going to have some Western radar. Even current Chinese radar fulfill requirements and yes it is engineering success story as it was designed almost by PAF and later changes were also incorporated after PAF engineers gave their inputs. Just a reminder, JF-17 is not a complete Chinese product but a Joint Venture between China's CAC and PAC/PAF from Pakistan.

 

[AVIAN]

Hey LCA is flying as well ... DRDO is just trying to figure out if it can do anything other than just flying around

There is much more happenings going on around LCA. All you need is just to have some research.

 

[hj786]

The reason JF17 is so highly thought of by Pakistanis is because its the first combat plane in PAF to have a true BVR capability.

No its not. Its because the aeroplane is a proper multi-role fighter with modern (as in 4th generation) avionics and good all-round performance. It has no major weakness and the existing weak points are to be/being upgraded. For example, weapon stations being increased from 7 to 9.

JF17 nobody knows its not yet performed in any scenarion not even mock combat with other fighters.

The PAF has had 8 JF-17s for the past 2-3 years. Pictures have been posted (in this very forum) of these aircraft taking part in not only aerial displays but air combat manoeuvring also, as well as taxiing with weapons pylons under the wings alongside the PAF's Dassault Mirage 5F ROSE fighters.
The facts are that the PAF was evaluating the JF-17's performance since April 2004 when the PAF's first two test pilots (qualified in the UK at the Empire Test Pilots' School) started flight-testing the very first prototype, PT-01. They were later replaced by another pair of freshly qualified Pakistani test pilots. Since these test pilots flew the fighter, the number of fighters expected to be manufactured for the PAF has gone up from 150 to 200, to 250 and now "up to 300".

But according to you nobody knows its performance? If you want to continue denying these simple facts, that's fine with me. But can you at least stop spreading false information on this discussion board?

Engineering on the plane is Russian engine and chinease radars and weapons unless i have missed some electronics involvement from PAC. ????

You can pretend its not true as much as you like, the fact is the fighter was jointly developed. That includes the airframe and electronics.

Wait for another two years this same guy will tell JF17 is a Crap and LCA is super doooper fighter... who Knows
By the way why he ran off from airforce god only knows

So if somebody important criticises the LCA and praises the JF-17, even if that person is a retired InAF pilot who flew fighter-bombers for 20 years, you guys just automatically dismiss it? That is the very definition of denial!

 

[batmannow]

WELL, countries like IRAN would be , watching it desperatly, i mean THAUNDER, & if everything goes fine, by the grace & help of allaha, countries like IRAN , will be giving good orders, for sure!
btw, THIS IAF poilt was trying to , make THUNDER , the good , the bad & the ugly, IDEALOGY THING!
CLEVER ENOUGH, BUT still a dump!

 

[Sapper]

WELL, countries like IRAN would be , watching it desperatly, i mean THAUNDER, & if everything goes fine, by the grace & help of allaha, countries like IRAN , will be giving good orders, for sure!
btw, THIS IAF poilt was trying to , make THUNDER , the good , the bad & the ugly, IDEALOGY THING!
CLEVER ENOUGH, BUT still a dump!

I posted following in Irans loss of AWACs thread, copy pasting here for those who haven't read it.

...
I don't think China will be providing Iran with any high end military hardware in near future. The thing we Pakistani's forget very often is that, although an Islamic nation, Iran is allied with India and not Pakistan. Iran WAS allied with Pakistan at time of Shah, when both Pakistan and Iran were part of American block in south asia region, but after shah, Iran aligned with russia and consequently with India, while we remained with American block for another couple of decades, before being thrashed around.

Do remember that all the logistics being provided to Afghans by India is coming through China, and all logistics to Bloch rebels (from India) is also being distributed using Iranian borders. Iran is still an Indian ally, we should never forget that.

It will be BAD news for Pakistan & China, if China sells its hardware to Iran, since it will make its way to Indian Scrutiny in an instant, and India is the major rival of both China and Pakistan in this region.

 

[Storm Force]

I, m certain the JF17 Thunder is a good plane. And a big leap in PAF capability.

I will how ever argue if PAF procures 300 has HJ786 is suggesting will it stil be relevant. in 2020

My argument is that surely it will take 10years to induct 250+ Thunders esp if we are to see future upgrades.

By 2020 The Thunder will face 400 su30mki & mmrca all aesa armed and r77 ramjet or amraam c7/ METEOR bvr equipped assuming super hornet/typhoon win the deal.

will the Thunders live and survive in this arena.

They will need quantum upgrades in the next 2 batches

Pakistan is in no financial position to waste limited funds

 

[blain2]

I, m certain the JF17 Thunder is a good plane. And a big leap in PAF capability.

I will how ever argue if PAF procures 300 has HJ786 is suggesting will it stil be relevant. in 2020

My argument is that surely it will take 10years to induct 250+ Thunders esp if we are to see future upgrades.

By 2020 The Thunder will face 400 su30mki & mmrca all aesa armed and r77 ramjet or amraam c7/ METEOR bvr equipped assuming super hornet/typhoon win the deal.

will the Thunders live and survive in this arena.

They will need quantum upgrades in the next 2 batches

Pakistan is in no financial position to waste limited funds

Why would the JF-17 not be relevant. Indians are using Mig-21s today and are in no mood to give these up for another 3-4 years. So where do you get off suggesting that JF-17 would have a problem surviving?

By 2020 The Thunder will face 400 su30mki & mmrca all aesa armed and r77 ramjet or amraam c7/ METEOR bvr equipped assuming super hornet/typhoon win the deal.

Let the IAF get there first then Pakistan will re-evaluate her options. As a realist, I see things working out just fine for the JF-17. It would be different if by 2020, PAF was faced by an all-5th gen aircraft equipped IAF. Such will not be the case.

PAF has fought under greater odds. The JF-17 is a luxury that Pakistan cannot afford to pass.

I think when PAF air staff sits and plans, they do so understanding IAF capabilities and intentions better than most. Decisions are made in accordance with the threat perception. In light of all this, JF-17 remains a valid deterrence option for the PAF.

 

[BATMAN]

PAF has gone up from 150 to 200, to 250 and now "up to 300"

Pakistani 300!
best of the best.

 

[Young-khan]

WELL, countries like IRAN would be , watching it desperatly, i mean THAUNDER, & if everything goes fine, by the grace & help of allaha, countries like IRAN , will be giving good orders, for sure!
btw, THIS IAF poilt was trying to , make THUNDER , the good , the bad & the ugly, IDEALOGY THING!
CLEVER ENOUGH, BUT still a dump!

Insha Allah You are right about Iran, i think we should cooperate fully with them as we should be building an alliance with them.

Helping iran with thunders is good for export and at same time iran is well advanced in helicopter industry which is non existant in pakistan and we can seek those avenues with them and learn and start our own industry.

 

[BATMAN]

^^I don't think it will be a best choice to help iran in military tech. at any time soon.
We can export it to many other countries.

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think most of the guys are skeptical about JF-17 as there are almost all the systems are new compared to eariler Chinese builds like of F-7 and F-8 which were based on older design.

Things like DSI, FBW, IFR, BVR, Radar, Avionics, Engine.. Everything is relatively new compared to F-7 or F-8. As JF-17 has not participated in any real time exercise or conflict but once inducted and new footages will become available to masses people will start talking about JF-17's abilities and limitations more seriously.

 

[rajeev]

PAFace

your comment

The reason why the JF-17 can be favorably compared to the F-16 is because they are two children of the same ideology. Lightweight Multi-role Fighters, with incredible WVR combat performance. The JF-17 is what the F-16 was always intended to be, which is why the aircraft is so vital to the PAF. For a "first" of almost everything in Pakistan, it can already be termed an engineering success story.

F16 has fantastic WVR performance but JF17 nobody knows its not yet performed in any scenarion not even mock combat with other fighters.

Engineering on the plane is Russian engine and chinease radars and weapons unless i have missed some electronics involvement from PAC. ????

you are saying that JF17 is better than F16 with BVR? We both (me and you) dont have direct access to these planes and we know only from media.

What I can see is Pak, even after having rough experience with US, is buying more F16's than JF17 when it got the chance? Don't you think that PAF has intelligent officers who have access to both these will have tested it out before planning to buy more of the F16 rather than JF17?

Atleast from this decision, it appears to me that PAF knows F16 is better than JF17, even at the risk of not getting spares at the time of war.

 

[MastanKhan]

you are saying that JF17 is better than F16 with BVR? We both (me and you) dont have direct access to these planes and we know only from media.

What I can see is Pak, even after having rough experience with US, is buying more F16's than JF17 when it got the chance? Don't you think that PAF has intelligent officers who have access to both these will have tested it out before planning to buy more of the F16 rather than JF17?

Atleast from this decision, it appears to me that PAF knows F16 is better than JF17, even at the risk of not getting spares at the time of war.

Hi,

I don't think he mentioned BVR anywhere---he was only talking about WVR---.

PAF will have 3---5 different kinds of aircraft in its inventory---F 16 is just one part of that inventory---.

Just like IAF has su 30---su 27---mig 29---mirage 2k5---jaguars---mig 21 bis etc etc.

 

[batmannow]

^^I don't think it will be a best choice to help iran in military tech. at any time soon.
We can export it to many other countries.

D.sir!
i guss times already, has changed for IRAN, everythn & Now, IRAN succsesfully pinned down the US admin, by posing a non existent threat to ISRAEL, with thier "SHABABs" & "poorly" built N- reactors.
USA seeing a way, of thier supplies through, IRAN will not mind, much. getting our "THUNDERS"!

 

[Sapper]

D.sir!
i guss times already, has changed for IRAN, everythn & Now, IRAN succsesfully pinned down the US admin, by posing a non existent threat to ISRAEL, with thier "SHABABs" & "poorly" built N- reactors.
USA seeing a way, of thier supplies through, IRAN will not mind, much. getting our "THUNDERS"!

I think giving Iran our thunders and loaning India our thunders for evaluation is "one and the same thing". I am not comfortable with the idea that our ONLY enemy should be allowed access to our main-stream fighter for next 2~3 dacades.

If however, Iran breaks its ties with India, for good, THEN and only then should China allow FC-1 and FC-20 exports to Iran, because China and Pakistan will be depending heavily on these for many dacades to come. The potential for leakage of secret performance statistics of these aircrafts to India is a very real possibility if we export these to Iran now.