Those 'defending' Pakistani culture fail to realise that culture isn't static

[VCheng]

As far as I know Zia-ul-Haq never enforced any dress code on the females.

Yes, he did. Female newscasters had to wear the dupatta a certain way or go off the air. That was just the beginning.

 

[Enigma_]

Zia destroyed the fabric of society in the country anyone with half a brain knows this. It'll be a long while before his effects truly wear off.

 

[till death do us party]

As far as I know Zia-ul-Haq never enforced any dress code on the females.


Burqa is not a result of Zia-ul-Haq Islamization or Arabization. It's the result of education.

Before many people were illiterate.They did not had any religious or non-religious education.
So they did not what Islam permitted or not permitted.They just followed the customs of the area.With time people got more educated and they started trying to follow Islam in everyday life.

My Grand Mother's generation had almost no formal schooling.They don't know anything about Islam.Most of them don't know how to pray Namaz or read Quran. They can't even read a single verse of Quran. Some even don't know the proper way to say the Kalimah!
The Kalimah that make us muslims.

My grand mother's generation is more concerned about local tradition,then about Islam.They never wore a burka,but they did wear a chador for purdah because of local custom.Their purdah was lax,not up to Islamic standards.

My mother's generations got formal schooling up to primary level and some Islamic Dars also.So they follow more Islamic principles in their lives then the previous generation.The do proper purdah,but they prefer the chador for it.

Now comes my generation.The females are more educated then the previous generations.Both religious and non-religious education.And almost all of them wear burqa and do Nikab. And my generation's female are more disciplined in following Islamic principles.

The reason of wearing burqa instead of chador is pragmatism, not arabization. Most of women cloths available in markets don't meet the Islamic standard for a femaledress.So,the women of this generation are forced to wear another piece of outer garment that covers them properly.And their choice of this garment is burqa.

Why burqa? Why not chador? Because chador is considered a garment for old and unfashionable people.Not for the young and fashionable people.And they find burqa more easy to handle then chador.




And you are making blanket assumptions against the whole nation.



Again you are making general assumptions, that those marriages that fail are result of being arranged.Don't love marriages also fail?In fact arranged marriages have much higher rate of success then love marriages.

As far as I know Zia-ul-Haq never enforced any dress code on the females.


Burqa is not a result of Zia-ul-Haq Islamization or Arabization. It's the result of education.

Before many people were illiterate.They did not had any religious or non-religious education.
So they did not what Islam permitted or not permitted.They just followed the customs of the area.With time people got more educated and they started trying to follow Islam in everyday life.

My Grand Mother's generation had almost no formal schooling.They don't know anything about Islam.Most of them don't know how to pray Namaz or read Quran. They can't even read a single verse of Quran. Some even don't know the proper way to say the Kalimah!
The Kalimah that make us muslims.

My grand mother's generation is more concerned about local tradition,then about Islam.They never wore a burka,but they did wear a chador for purdah because of local custom.Their purdah was lax,not up to Islamic standards.

My mother's generations got formal schooling up to primary level and some Islamic Dars also.So they follow more Islamic principles in their lives then the previous generation.The do proper purdah,but they prefer the chador for it.

Now comes my generation.The females are more educated then the previous generations.Both religious and non-religious education.And almost all of them wear burqa and do Nikab. And my generation's female are more disciplined in following Islamic principles.

The reason of wearing burqa instead of chador is pragmatism, not arabization. Most of women cloths available in markets don't meet the Islamic standard for a femaledress.So,the women of this generation are forced to wear another piece of outer garment that covers them properly.And their choice of this garment is burqa.

Why burqa? Why not chador? Because chador is considered a garment for old and unfashionable people.Not for the young and fashionable people.And they find burqa more easy to handle then chador.




And you are making blanket assumptions against the whole nation.



Again you are making general assumptions, that those marriages that fail are result of being arranged.Don't love marriages also fail?In fact arranged marriages have much higher rate of success then love marriages.

if you are done with your "jo kehta hai wo khud hota hai" replies maybe you can get the point that this is exactly what i was saying that marriages crumbling have nothing to do with them being arranged or love. its when two people cant get along.
also many does not mean all therefore the said comment does not qualify as a blanket statement. #englishlessons

As far as I know Zia-ul-Haq never enforced any dress code on the females.
yes he did. female newscasters were asked to cover up as someone has already said. also his islamization and encouragement to mullahism paved way for moral policing of women.

Burqa is not a result of Zia-ul-Haq Islamization or Arabization. It's the result of education.

Before many people were illiterate.They did not had any religious or non-religious education.
So they did not what Islam permitted or not permitted.They just followed the customs of the area.With time people got more educated and they started trying to follow Islam in everyday life.

My Grand Mother's generation had almost no formal schooling.They don't know anything about Islam.Most of them don't know how to pray Namaz or read Quran. They can't even read a single verse of Quran. Some even don't know the proper way to say the Kalimah!
The Kalimah that make us muslims.

My grand mother's generation is more concerned about local tradition,then about Islam.They never wore a burka,but they did wear a chador for purdah because of local custom.Their purdah was lax,not up to Islamic standards.

My mother's generations got formal schooling up to primary level and some Islamic Dars also.So they follow more Islamic principles in their lives then the previous generation.The do proper purdah,but they prefer the chador for it.

Now comes my generation.The females are more educated then the previous generations.Both religious and non-religious education.And almost all of them wear burqa and do Nikab. And my generation's female are more disciplined in following Islamic principles.

The reason of wearing burqa instead of chador is pragmatism, not arabization. Most of women cloths available in markets don't meet the Islamic standard for a femaledress.So,the women of this generation are forced to wear another piece of outer garment that covers them properly.And their choice of this garment is burqa.

Why burqa? Why not chador? Because chador is considered a garment for old and unfashionable people.Not for the young and fashionable people.And they find burqa more easy to handle then chador.




And you are making blanket assumptions against the whole nation.



Again you are making general assumptions, that those marriages that fail are result of being arranged.Don't love marriages also fail?In fact arranged marriages have much higher rate of success then love marriages.

 

[PAKjunoon]

your argument is fundamentally flawed, Zia Ul Haq did indeed impose a dress code, you might want to go read up on that. It is also true that he gave a free hand to mullahs, and for the purpose of the Afghan war, extremist madrassahs were opened which advocated the burqa, a prime example is Afghanistan.

Wikipedia say he only imposed the dress code on women working in TV and air hostesses. Not on the general public.If public started dressing in a particular way,this was of their own will.Gov. did not forced them.

Yes he gave the Mullahs free hand and they advocated the burqas but still no one was forced to wear it.At least in Pakistan.

As for the second point the thing is that religious arguments are not allowed in this forum, so we cannot have a discussion about what Islam says about pardah, weather Islam advocates the Burqa or not.

My argument was not on what Islam says on purdah or wether it advocates burqa or not.My argument was that the rise in burqa is due to education of females, not some "Islamizaton" of Zia-ul-Haq.

I have said it before and I will say it again, our own cultural dresses are modest enough, the only people who advocate the Arab culture are those who want to erase our local culture.
As for the education in olden times, women in Afghanistan and Pakistan were more educated before the rise of Arabization, our own founder Mr Jinnah was a student of Sindh Madrassahtul Islam, and he never told or forced the women around to him to do purdah.

No, the women in Pakistan are more educated then ever before in the history of Pakistan.Check the stats.

 

[PAKjunoon]

if you are done with your "jo kehta hai wo khud hota hai" replies maybe you can get the point that this is exactly what i was saying that marriages crumbling have nothing to do with them being arranged or love. its when two people cant get along.
also many does not mean all therefore the said comment does not qualify as a blanket statement. #englishlessons

"Many" means majority.You argument was that "many"(majority) arranged marriages fail and my argument is that "many"(majority) arranged marriages are success.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

During time of Zia, women would walk around the cities without any fear of a man harassing them or staring and ultimately felt very safe. Also you could walk around in any alley of Karachi even at 3 in the morning without any fear.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Wikipedia say he only imposed the dress code on women working in TV and air hostesses. Not on the general public.If public started dressing in a particular way,this was of their own will.Gov. did not forced them.

Yes he gave the Mullahs free hand and they advocated the burqas but still no one was forced to wear it.At least in Pakistan.

yes, and the mullahs started to misguide the female youth

 

[Enigma_]

During time of Zia, women would walk around the cities without any fear of a man harassing them or staring and ultimately felt very safe. Also you could walk around in any alley of Karachi even at 3 in the morning without any fear.

Bhai saab teri mehar baani kis ulaad ko protect kar raha ha?

 

[Jf Thunder]

My argument was not on what Islam says on purdah or wether it advocates burqa or not.My argument was that the rise in burqa is due to education of females, not some "Islamizaton" of Zia-ul-Haq.

it has no relation to education whatsoever
it has the relation to Madrassahs spreading dis information

No, the women in Pakistan are more educated then ever before in the history of Pakistan.Check the stats.

that maybe so, but it does not have anything to do with the burqa, the "Dars" and "madrassahs" do

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Bhai saab teri mehar baani kis ulaad ko protect kar raha ha?

I don't understand.

 

[Enigma_]

I don't understand.

I am saying that you're trying to protect the image of someone who's indefensible. Zia changed the country forever and trust me it was not for the better. Trying to justify his rule is futile.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I am saying that you're trying to protect the image of someone who's indefensible. Zia changed the country forever and trust me it was not for the better. Trying to justify his rule is futile.

Most of the people that badmouth him were not even alive during his tenure so I hardly take what they say seriously. Mostly kids parroting 2 numbar talk show analysts and elders that were supporters of Bhutto.

What I just wrote was absolutely the truth at the time.

 

[PAKjunoon]

yes, and the mullahs started to misguide the female youth

it has no relation to education whatsoever
it has the relation to Madrassahs spreading dis information

For some its "Misguidance" and "Dis-info" and for others its "Guidance" and "Info".

 

[Enigma_]

Most of the people that badmouth him were not even alive during his tenure so I hardly take what they say seriously. Mostly kids parroting 2 numbar talk show analysts and elders that were supporters of Bhutto.

What I just wrote was absolutely the truth at the time.

People can still read about him. Heck, the effects of his rule are evident today. What is good about it? Freedom of expression and speech were squashed, anyone that didn't toe his hardline view was either killed or locked up in jail. Most importantly he was a dictator. Not an elected leader. Not saying the elected leader but was any better but fgs no dictator should blatantly change society of any country like that - that is, with impunity.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

What is wrong with Pakistani Culture?????? Or I shall say Cultures ???????