This to Generals for this !

[PradoTLC]

Hafiz whisky is taking things too far

 

[HerbertPervert]

There is a difference between lawful orders and illegal orders. As long as soldiers are following lawful orders, soldiers are expected to maintain order and discipline. Soldiers de-escalated the situation by leaving. The movement for democracy just needs these soldiers to only follow lawful orders. It will be these solders that will be needed to man the polls. Don’t lump them all into one group, give the young men hope that they will be lead by IK once again.

The army has removed its own, bypassing chain of command when necessary. Yahya Khan removed Ayub Khan. The establishment was involved in Zia Ul Haq's death. Kayani pressured Musharraf to relinquish power. Please feel free to add more examples.

There are no excuses. Chain of command constitutionally starts with the president. If tomorrow, COAS were to sign an agreement to hand AJK or Gilgit to India, should army follow chain of command and let that happen?

 

[Al-zakir]

Even the common solider getting abuse due to their top leaders.

Do they not have brain to differentiate right from wrong? To me they are equally responsible for this BS.

پہلے نعرے لگتے تھے



Now,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637230974818713603

This is sad but justified. I remembered common folks use to welcome them with flowers and sweets. Soon people will throw stone at them.

 

[One_Nation]

پہلے نعرے لگتے تھے



Now,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637230974818713603

Next step: drag them out and show them some love.

These are our regular soldiers, it’s not their fault for what happens above them. It’s not fear it’s shame.

These solders are also a part of our youth, put in an unfortunate situation. The youth of our country are getting severely effected the longer this goes on. And as probably the largest generation this country will see, this effect will echo for at least the next 70-80 years.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637462290550358022

The hate is not directed at the foot soldiers but for their leaders. This is the only way army leadership will get the message.

 

[Khan_patriot]

پہلے نعرے لگتے تھے



Now,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637230974818713603

This was hard to watch, can’t imagine what was going through these boys head as they sat in their vehicle. Good thing they de-escalated and went back. Reminds one of Kashmir.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Every human has the ability to differentiate between right and wrong. This is no longer an excuse of ranks.

Using classic example, a soldier isn’t going to jump off a building and get himself killed even if the COAS himself commands.

It's a delicate issue because we need a disciplined rank-and-file. Let's say, hypothetically, Pakistan comes under the control of the ideal leadership. Wouldn't you want them to be at the helm of a disciplined army? I would.

The key here is to have a source of reference that sets red lines that no officer of the state should cross, i.e., harming civilians, suppressing peaceful political dissent, interfering with judicial processes, surrendering the national interests of the state (e.g., AJK), and so on. If anyone crosses those red lines, they should be removed by another officer of the state. If that fails, then the people reserve the right to remove said transgressor.

I think back to when Umar bin al-Khattab (RA) spoke to the crowd:

“Whoever sees in me crookedness then he must straighten me”!! A man from amongst the general masses then responded to him saying: “By Allah O ‘Umar, if we see crookedness in you we, will oppose you with the sharp edge of our swords”. ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) then smiled and said: “All praise is to Allah who has made from the Muslims the one who will oppose the crookedness of ‘Umar with the sharp edge of his sword …”

 

[Strigon]

There is a difference between lawful orders and illegal orders. As long as soldiers are following lawful orders, soldiers are expected to maintain order and discipline. Soldiers de-escalated the situation by leaving. The movement for democracy just needs these soldiers to only follow lawful orders. It will be these solders that will be needed to man the polls. Don’t lump them all into one group, give the young men hope that they will be lead by IK once again.

Hardly anything lawful about hurting the country/ people that one swore to protect and defend even if they hold different opinions.

It's a delicate issue because we need a disciplined rank-and-file. Let's say, hypothetically, Pakistan comes under the control of the ideal leadership. Wouldn't you want them to be at the helm of a disciplined army? I would.

The key here is to have a source of reference that sets red lines that no officer of the state should cross, i.e., harming civilians, suppressing peaceful political dissent, interfering with judicial processes, surrendering the national interests of the state (e.g., AJK), and so on. If anyone crosses those red lines, they should be removed by another officer of the state. If that fails, then the people reserve the right to remove said transgressor.

I think back to when Umar bin al-Khattab (RA) spoke to the crowd:

I agree. However the issue here is the red lines is subjective for each officer and then further influenced or dictated by the highest rank.

And then every jawan may also have their own definition based on their tolerance of the said red line.

Still people hold a diminishing trust that army of all the entities will not harm them as police and the kangaroo system already has. Time will tell if the same love for army will be taught to next generations as it was taught to us, to make us not question any of their involvements.

 

[S.Y.A]

It's a delicate issue because we need a disciplined rank-and-file. Let's say, hypothetically, Pakistan comes under the control of the ideal leadership. Wouldn't you want them to be at the helm of a disciplined army? I would.

The key here is to have a source of reference that sets red lines that no officer of the state should cross, i.e., harming civilians, suppressing peaceful political dissent, interfering with judicial processes, surrendering the national interests of the state (e.g., AJK), and so on. If anyone crosses those red lines, they should be removed by another officer of the state. If that fails, then the people reserve the right to remove said transgressor.

I think back to when Umar bin al-Khattab (RA) spoke to the crowd:

going by this logic, which i agree with btw, the people should drag the generals, bureaucrats, judges and ministers and hang them all.

These are our regular soldiers, it’s not their fault for what happens above them. It’s not fear it’s shame.

like the german soldiers who were just following orders? or the drone operators of the US military who killed hundreds of innocent people, and were just following orders? there was no media coverage of operations in wana, fata etc in mushi's days... how do we know that these soldiers didnt blow up any innocent families? we certainly know that these "jawans" handed over innocent people to USA, and mushi bragged about it.....

 

[Dalit]

As Moeed said in his vlog yesterday. The army establishment has been hijacked by corrupt, criminal generals.

That is exactly what it amounts to. Greedy and selfish generals.

Hafiz whisky is taking things too far

Remember. Hafiz was brought in recently after the main antagonist Bajwa left the scene. Bajwa handpicked Hafiz.

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan army is highjaked by criminal generals

 

[White privilege]

Lar-yo-bar sickos in action under the guise of 'PTI KPK'. Their whining never mattered, won't matter now. Imran should be wary of his party's KPK wing. They would do this shit and hurt his mainstream agenda....

 

[Mav3rick]

There is only 1 political party which has created this hatred amongst its supporters for the Army. It is agreed that the actions of the Military higher ups have been quite undemocratic, authoritative and outside law & legal mandate. However, even MQM, a party which faced serious military action, did not create this type of hatred for the Army which this man Imran Khan does day and night to the point where his sheep are repeating his bleat in the most arrogant, selfish and dishonorable means available. Pretty soon they will be wishing and inviting Indian Army to destroy Pak Army just to satisfy the ego of their leader whose ego just cannot be fulfilled.

Initially Bajwa was the father and now Bajwa is the worst. Imran Khan cannot even continue with his own policy or plan and his hired team of social media influencers has cause heart breaking damage to the youth who are easily influenced by the constant bombardment of lies and propaganda. Initially it was a US conspiracy and then it became home grown. Every narrative changes with time to suit Imran Khan and that's what politicians do. But the sheep, oh the sheep, how they lap up every disgusting lie and story that he concocts, that's his real victory.

But the thing is, sheep will always be sheep and there will always be ways to brainwash them with other nonsense.

 

[Dalit]

There is only 1 political party which has created this hatred amongst its supporters for the Army. It is agreed that the actions of the Military higher ups have been quite undemocratic, authoritative and outside law & legal mandate. However, even MQM, a party which faced serious military action, did not create this type of hatred for the Army which this man Imran Khan does day and night to the point where his sheep are repeating his bleat in the most arrogant, selfish and dishonorable means available. Pretty soon they will be wishing and inviting Indian Army to destroy Pak Army just to satisfy the ego of their leader whose ego just cannot be fulfilled.

Initially Bajwa was the father and now Bajwa is the worst. Imran Khan cannot even continue with his own policy or plan and his hired team of social media influencers has cause heart breaking damage to the youth who are easily influenced by the constant bombardment of lies and propaganda. Initially it was a US conspiracy and then it became home grown. Every narrative changes with time to suit Imran Khan and that's what politicians do. But the sheep, oh the sheep, how they lap up every disgusting lie and story that he concocts, that's his real victory.

But the thing is, sheep will always be sheep and there will always be ways to brainwash them with other nonsense.

You admit that the generals are wrong for meddling in politics. Well, consider PTI the first party to confront the generals on their wrongful behaviour. Altaf and his MQM became a pawn. PTI won't because Imran Khan won't divert.

 

[Shafsins]

There is only 1 political party which has created this hatred amongst its supporters for the Army. It is agreed that the actions of the Military higher ups have been quite undemocratic, authoritative and outside law & legal mandate. However, even MQM, a party which faced serious military action, did not create this type of hatred for the Army which this man Imran Khan does day and night to the point where his sheep are repeating his bleat in the most arrogant, selfish and dishonorable means available. Pretty soon they will be wishing and inviting Indian Army to destroy Pak Army just to satisfy the ego of their leader whose ego just cannot be fulfilled.

Initially Bajwa was the father and now Bajwa is the worst. Imran Khan cannot even continue with his own policy or plan and his hired team of social media influencers has cause heart breaking damage to the youth who are easily influenced by the constant bombardment of lies and propaganda. Initially it was a US conspiracy and then it became home grown. Every narrative changes with time to suit Imran Khan and that's what politicians do. But the sheep, oh the sheep, how they lap up every disgusting lie and story that he concocts, that's his real victory.

But the thing is, sheep will always be sheep and there will always be ways to brainwash them with other nonsense.

Political party did not create this hatred, the army did and like you said "undemocratic, authoritative and outside law and legal mandate" ( putting it very mildly) and you expect people to do what? Keep praising them for all of the above? Fact is, the politics has been turned into a disgusting pool of filth ( audio/video culture, kidnapping opponents and torturing them in the naked and blackmailing, murdering people) and yet, you blame PTI and/or people for all this? How would you feel if the police did to your house what was done to Imran's house? What part of law were they following?

Bajwa was father till he did not do any of the above but after he politically, financially and morally destroyed the country, things are the way they are. First impression is NOT the last impression. If the cipher was investigated on the first day, we would have know what actually happened but guess who didn't let that happen?!!

Surprised that you expect everyone to not feel anything about what has happened since April last year.

Generally, circumstances are the reason of change in mood and behaviour.

 

[Mav3rick]

You admit that the generals are wrong for meddling in politics. Well, consider PTI the first party to confront the generals on their wrongful behaviour. Altaf and his MQM became a pawn. PTI won't because Imran Khan won't divert.

MQM was a pawn. most other parties and most electable are pawns, Imran Khan himself admitted he was a pawn and that the instructions were being received from somewhere else. Basically, Imran Khan was all fine and dandy being a pawn as long as he was the PM and only just realized that he was being used after he was removed from the PM office.

And yes, it is not the domain of the Army to meddle in politics. But to ensure that we need clean politicians, which we do not have. So we will have to make do with the lot that we have and they all will always be amenable to the might of the Military, for self preservation and benefit above all else.