This ‘graduate’ garbage

[Skeptic786]

i think so the only and only problem in your eyes is Musharaf .... seems to be personal bias than anything else frankly speaking

i have yet to see a post from you accepting any good deed done, your posts are 99% negative in nature as far as current system is concerned, even a blind, deaf and **** would be able to say that ATLEAST something good is being done, my friend i am waiting to hear from you if in your opinion anything positive is being done?

I think so having that restriction is a good step forward, as far as your concern of cutting the people from representing ... well have you ever thought of this being incentive to actually step forward and take education seriously? i doubt coz you seem to be looking at one side of the picture

P.S have you heard of the phrase "beauty lies in the eye of the beholder" it does have vast meanings, if you know what i am saying

i refer you to excellent posts of niaz and sigatoka on this issue in this thread.
I have given my views as well on this issue which can be found in my posts in this thread by scrolling up.

As far as your general statement against me or my views is concerned.....all i can say is..in a debate...like for a coin...there are always two sides. It happens that you find my views to be contrary to yours. The challenge is for you to come up with better arguments....you cannot simply condemn me for my views.....lets have your views.....and allow the readers to decide which side they think has the views in conformity with the national interests of Pakistan.....as oppose to being in service of those that happen to be in/out of power.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Begum Abida Hussain who has been MNA many times, Pakistan's ambassador to US during NS times and was brought up in a very wealthy and educated family had to pass the test to participate in 2002 elections. unfortunately she lost the seat.

But the question is how much knowledge she must have gained with this degree and what change it may have brought in her life?

The degree thing is total bull$hit.

As Sigatoka said its just to keep a few politicians out and no one should have the right to do that

 

[Skeptic786]

Begum Abida Hussain who has been MNA many times, Pakistan's ambassador to US during NS times and was brought up in a very wealthy and educated family had to pass the test to participate in 2002 elections. unfortunately she lost the seat.

But the question is how much knowledge she must have gained with this degree and what change it may have brought in her life?

The degree thing is total bull$hit.

As Sigatoka said its just to keep a few politicians out and no one should have the right to do that

Thank you for bringing up her example.....the woman is clever enuff to count the feathers of flying bird ( urti chirya ka par gin laiti ha ).....it is plain ridiculous to suggest that this woman would not be able to do her job as MNA better than her kids who have degrees from USA. Same goes for Gohar Ayub Khan....he was officer in Pak Army.....and did a marvelous job as Pakistan Foreign minster...during the time of nuclear tests....but barred under degree rule.

 

[baqai]

Unlike you most Pak. dont have an opportunity to go to university unless they have connections whether it be wealthy family or politically connected.

I have no idea from where you are getting this perception, our literacy rate is very low that i admit but steps are being taken for improvement, i am myself from a middle class family and my parents worked very hard to give me good education, Ma'Sha Allah i am now BSC Honors In Computing & IT and now days doing MBA, 90% of my class mates were / are from lower middle class families, the thirst for knowledge does not comes from goverment it comes from attitude in my opinion, there are lots and lots of people out there with their buisnessess who see higher education as "waste" its an sorry situation but trend is slowly changing

Secondly the people when voting are free to decide whether they want to elect a person with a PHD or a farmer with no degree, who are you to prevent them from electing the farmer?

In order to move forward in this world we need a person who acknowledges new trends and with wider vision, its about changing the trends and increasing literacy through different incentives

This law is just an attempt to cement the power of the elite in the nation at the expense of all others.

whats stopping others to step forward and pursue higher education? i see it totally opposite, in our history only selective people from selective parties used to come forward, same faces different elections, this time around we get to see many new faces and young blood apart from few ol faces, this kind of contradicts your claim there

 

[baqai]

As far as your general statement against me or my views is concerned.....all i can say is..in a debate...like for a coin...there are always two sides. It happens that you find my views to be contrary to yours. The challenge is for you to come up with better arguments....you cannot simply condemn me for my views.....lets have your views.....and allow the readers to decide which side they think has the views in conformity with the national interests of Pakistan.....as oppose to being in service of those that happen to be in/out of power.

i always enjoy a healthy debate, but if you go through the limited posts i have done on this forum you might notice that i don't deny everything, i have noticed that few people here tend to be very negative about current goverment, never did i claimed this goverment to be angelic and i have again and again said that regardless of everything current system is much better than what we had during BB and NS goverments and in my opinion we are progressing in a positive direction at much faster pace than ever before

 

[Cheetah786]

funniest thing out off all this is .None of the once debating this is uneductaed other wise they wont be able to debate this on the internet forum some here obviously have a hidden agenda be it that some one in there family was disqualified cause of this law or anti pakistan they like for us to keep the uneducated idiots arround so we will be in reverse gear while they move on to be stronger but i think this law should never be changed and actually made it more stronger the once who are disqualified cause on no education have only 1 choice GO TO SCHOOL AND GET EDUCATION Other wise bug off:toast:

 

[sigatoka]

1. I have no idea from where you are getting this perception, our literacy rate is very low that i admit but steps are being taken for improvement, i am myself from a middle class family and my parents worked very hard to give me good education, Ma'Sha Allah i am now BSC Honors In Computing & IT and now days doing MBA, 90% of my class mates were / are from lower middle class families, the thirst for knowledge does not comes from goverment it comes from attitude in my opinion, there are lots and lots of people out there with their buisnessess who see higher education as "waste" its an sorry situation but trend is slowly changing


2. In order to move forward in this world we need a person who acknowledges new trends and with wider vision, its about changing the trends and increasing literacy through different incentives


3. whats stopping others to step forward and pursue higher education? i see it totally opposite, in our history only selective people from selective parties used to come forward, same faces different elections, this time around we get to see many new faces and young blood apart from few ol faces, this kind of contradicts your claim there

1. Pak. literacy rate is very low and it is being improved slowly, but until ever Pak. child who is capable of attending university can not because of poverty or other such reason such laws will be discriminatory against those who come from poor backgrounds. I would oppose these laws even in wealthy western nations but no where near as strongly.

You are lucky that you are if not from upper class than at least from the middle class. The poor in Pak. outnumber the rich and the middle class combined.

Indeed the thirst of knowledge does not come from governments, but incompetent and wasteful governments can and do impede the ability of many to seek education. When the choice is between earning three meals a day or education many choose eating. Then to prevent such people from entering into the legislature that they prevent another generation from facing the same tragedy is very sad. How will a person with a degree understand any better the concerns and the heartache of the poor who are without water, electricity, roads or basic education than a man from such a background?

Also research has shown that the quantity of education undertaken goes beyond that justified purely by increases in productivity, education in addition to contributing to productivity is also pursued for "signalling" superior intellect. That is people do degree's to some degree to show that they are more intellegent than those who havent. Signalling is a wasteful activity from the veiwpoint of society. Forcing those in legislatures to have degrees will only slightly increase productivity if at all (because even at the moment the electorate have a choice to choose those with degrees and those without) but will defintely increase the quantity of "signalling" undertaken.


2. This law will have very little effect on improving literacy, if the government is serious why does it not build the hundreds of new schools that are needed in poor provinces and villages where many are denied basic primary and high school education? This law is politics first and education a distant distant second.

3. Go to a village without electricity, without piped water, without access to high schools because of poor roads and public transport and tell them there is nothing in their path to a degree and the riches it holds. Be grateful that you were fortuante enough to have had the opportunity to attend university, but also be humble enough to accept there are countless people in Pak. who do not have that opportunity through no fault of their own.

 

[sigatoka]

1. funniest thing out off all this is .None of the once debating this is uneductaed other wise they wont be able to debate this on the internet forum

2. some here obviously have a hidden agenda be it that some one in there family was disqualified cause of this law or anti pakistan

3. actually made it more stronger the once who are disqualified cause on no education have only 1 choice GO TO SCHOOL AND GET EDUCATION Other wise bug off

1. How could they when the internet is still a privelege of the rich and middle class? How could they when many do not have acess to high school because of crushing poverty where the choice was between working and eating or education? How could they when every successive government has prioritiesed military expenditure over that of education?

2. To speak for the rights of the poor and the down trodden is now classed as a hidden agenda?

3. Better yet, to ship people like you to the villages for labour to build schools, to build roads and to lay down fibre optic cables so that you realise that not everyone had things served to them on a silver platter.

 

[Skeptic786]

funniest thing out off all this is .None of the once debating this is uneductaed other wise they wont be able to debate this on the internet forum some here obviously have a hidden agenda be it that some one in there family was disqualified cause of this law or anti pakistan they like for us to keep the uneducated idiots arround so we will be in reverse gear while they move on to be stronger but i think this law should never be changed and actually made it more stronger the once who are disqualified cause on no education have only 1 choice GO TO SCHOOL AND GET EDUCATION Other wise bug off:toast:

we pick policies/news to pieces thats the point of having a debating forum in the first place. Your insinuation about someone's family member getting disqualified under this law is incorrect as far as i am concerned. Since i come from a non-political background.........my only brush with any political person came when a certain MLA turned out to hand me "man of the tournment award" for a cricket tournment held in my town when i was 16/17. That MLA now happens to be the President of Azad Kashmir...i.e. Raja Zulkurnain Khan.

As far as the jist of your other comments are concerned....let me say this...i live in the UK...who is currently governed by the Labour Party. The Labour Party was setup around a 100 years ago in 1900 to speak up for the rights of working class and poor people and break the hold of elites/feudals that had governed UK thus far ( a situation identical now prevailing in pakistan )...most of the founders of Labour Party never had formal education what to say university degree.......infact the first 50 years all its leaders were degree-less......here is what is said of their founding leader;


Hardie grew up in poverty and, from the age of eight, was a delivery boy for a baker. At the time he was the only wage-earner in his family. He was fired from this job because he arrived late to work, after looking after his dying brother. With no family income, the Hardies had to move back to Lanarkshire. From the age of 11, Hardie was working down the pits of Lanarkshire. He never went to school and he could not write until the age of 17.

yet it is this party that has brought about change in the fortunes of the working class people and poor. If you fall down on a pavement anywhere in the UK...noone checks for your wallet...instead concentrates on getting you to hospital for the best treatment ( country can afford as oppose to the injured person)...pensions for the elderly and welfare system for the poor ( not to mention rights for working class people at their places of work )...all this was done by people who didnot have university degrees but had seen suffering and poverty first hand.