There's No Way The F-35 Will Ever Match The Eurofighter In Aerial Combat

[Luftwaffe]

Well it has been discussed before at what Range would the Aircraft be detected, considering EFT Tranche 3 has a new composites Airframe so it is yet to be known the RCS of Tranche3A+. EFT has lower RCS and is relatively smaller plane than JSF. It would be equipped with AESA, A reasonable IRST. Lastly it would come to Air Tactics and AWACS in friendly skies would help. Welcome to next generation air wars.

 

[Mosamania]

Mosamania, the Typhoon is constrained by its design and it cannot deliver munitions in a single pass over the kill box in the time allotted for the action better than a Rafale that was designed to be more controllable carrying and releasing heavy munitions.
This design limitation and the difference between the two is even more obvious at low altitudes.

As for the F-35, it is in an entirely different league this aircraft will bring a paradigm shift in air warfare. Fighting the F-35 close in will be like taking on the Dragon warriors in Kung Fu Panda. The dragon warriors if you haven't seen the movie are six fighters (Panda,Tigress, Monkey, Mantis, Viper, and Crane) that almost seem to be telepathically connected while engaged in a fight, heavily outnumbered by stronger dumber opponents.

Fighting two ,four or more F-35's in a single element will be nearly impossible for legacy fighters. How do you fight opponents that have a god's eye view of the entire arena? How do you fight an opponent that uses computer assisted expert decision systems that work out the best tactics for each aircraft and the entire element using real time data as the battle evolves? How do you fight an opponents that can efficiently coordinate and synchronize its actions at the speed of thought without radio chatter?

The same system is also installed in the Typhoon you know. So your analogy is flawed. I suggest you read more about the Typhoon.

And yes I have seen the movie.

 

[Luftwaffe]

The same system is also installed in the Typhoon you know. So your analogy is flawed. I suggest you read more about the Typhoon.

And yes I have seen the movie.

Tranche 3A and Beyond is meant to have similar technologies/computing power as F-35.

Eurofighter: *Direct Voice Input

This was present in Tranche 1, we can imagine what software upgrade would be to T3A+ the same situation awareness and computing similar to F-35s.

 

[dbc]

The same system is also installed in the Typhoon you know.

Really? What's it called? Who makes it? Who uses it? At what speed does the Typhoon transmit and receive data? Heck the Typhoon does not even have an operational AESA radar that is at the heart of such a complex system.

Eurofighter: *Direct Voice Input

This was present in Tranche 1, we can imagine what software upgrade would be to T3A+ the same situation awareness and computing similar to F-35s.

Direct Voice input? really? is that the best you can do? my car had direct voice input ten years ago.

 

[Mosamania]

Really? What's it called? Who makes it? Who uses it? At what speed does the Typhoon transmit and receive data? Heck the Typhoon does not even have an operational AESA radar that is at the heart of such a complex system.

EruroDASS is the name, it is made in collaboration of British, German, Spanish and Italian firms. It transmits information to one another instantly. The Typhoon will be equipped with the Captor-E radar, funny you should mention what is operational or not, you know since the whole F-35 is not even operational yet.

Talking Saudi Arabia specifically we will be using a combination of Link-16 and LAMAH systems, LAMAH system being able to transmit through Saudi military ComSATs and through AWACs as well as directly.

 

[gambit]

You are right in everything you said, which is not new to me, you forget one big advantage the Typhoon has over strength in WVR (IRST). I know that stealth pilots will do everything in their power to make sure "Nothing comes close". But say it did, the Typhoon pilot released Decoys and jinked out of an incoming BVR missile using every trick he knows amd managed to do it.

Both you and I know that it is only a matter of second before BVR turns into WVR, and they did. Does the F-35 stand a chance against the Typhoon? JHMCS are on both, both have extreme angle Short range missiles. But what the Typhoon has and the F-35 doesn't have is the fact that the Typhoon can go on loops around the F-35 before the F-35 can make a turn.

"Radar Enhancers" doesn't matter much when we are talking HSM now does it?

THAT is purely speculative.

If you want to add on a series of 'ifs' in favor of the Typhoon, then why bother to have this debate at all? It is at best academic and designed to give temporary joy to Typhoon supporters.

 

[500]

It also remindes me of the F-4. Thinking that the laws of Air-Combat forever changed with the introduction of the missile, thus no guns. In the end we all know what happened.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in anyway saying the F-35 is an awful plane or a failure, it is a very capable and frightening plane to be against, all I am saying is that it must be supplemented to increase operational capabilities . The F-35 is a gamble, and a damn big one at that. A gamble I am not prepared to put my money on.

Thats why F-35 is quite agile fighter with a gun. It is also equipped by 360 grad DAS and AIM-9X, so it does not rely just ob BVR.

 

[Mosamania]

THAT is purely speculative.

If you want to add on a series of 'ifs' in favor of the Typhoon, then why bother to have this debate at all? It is at best academic and designed to give temporary joy to Typhoon supporters.

It is a figurative speech gambit, does not mean literally. By the way even though I have a certain soft spot for the Typhoon, but I am not at all biased, at least not against the F-35, we are a designated market for it, and I am as well as most of our Airforce is 95% sure it will be our Tornado replacer. So I gain nothing by defaming it. I am just trying to give my opinion through constructive criticism.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Direct Voice input? really? is that the best you can do? my car had direct voice input ten years ago.

Have you read inside, do read it. Now you tell me if F-35 has it I'm sure it has it than you need to clarify if your old naughty car is as good as F-35. The level of situational awareness of EFT is as good as F-35.

 

[Mosamania]

Thats why F-35 is quite agile fighter with a gun. It is also equipped by 360 grad DAS and AIM-9X, so it does not rely just ob BVR.

The whole debate here, is that it is not agile at all, at least not enough. And by the way so does the Typhoon, plus IRIS-T.

 

[gambit]

Illogical, Aircraft are mission oriented, what makes you think EFT would be flying with GBUs against F-35. Even EFT with A2A BVR/WVR [minus A2G weapons since mission is different] would still be circling around F-35. JSF is developed with AESA long range radar to detect first and shoot down first without coming-in close but if it comes into contact with Sukhoi-35 or EFT it is in Trouble if not dead meat.

PS. F-35 being clean would mean it would go down clean lol how many BVRs do you think F-35 station into its weapons compartment/weapons bay. Then there is JHCMS and HMSS, both Aircrafts have Advantages when it comes to weapons and sighting but in close combat i would pick EFT to be the winner, my opinion is EFT is second to Raptors in Air superiority [western standards].

What is the g-limit on a fully loaded air-air configured Typhoon which includes up to three external fuel tanks? I know what 9 gs feel like in a truly clean F-16 with only (simulated) AIM-9s. The g-limiter is necessary because of centrifugal force, however, not all limiters are the same. A visually clean Lightning can be configured for either air-ground or air-air and precisely because its weapons load are vested close to centerline, its g-limiter will not be the same as an F-16 or Typhoon similarly configured. No matter what the Typhoon pilot may claim, it will be his g-limiter that dictate his maneuverability limits.

 

[tyrant]

We agree that F35 has the first strike capability. The question is: Is F35 worth the money?
I prefer to spend the money on sophisticated radar systems. I believe that the ground radars will cover for EFT.

 

[500]

The whole debate here, is that it is not agile at all

No, its agile aircraft.

Lockheed Martin test pilot Jon Beesley has countered that in an air-to-air configuration the F-35 has almost as much thrust as weight and a flight control system that allows it to be fully maneuverable even at a 50-degree angle of attack.
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In the meantime, and without discussing specific performance characteristics, Italian air force fighter pilots involved with the F-35 program tell Aviation Week that the aircraft's performance falls "between the F-16 and the F/A-18 in terms of flight envelope — and is actually closer to the F/A-18, considering its high angle of attack and slow-speed maneuvering capabilities.

, at least not enough.

More than enough for stealth aircraft.

And by the way so does the Typhoon, plus IRIS-T.

IRIS-T is no match to DAS.

 

[Pfpilot]

THAT is purely speculative.

If you want to add on a series of 'ifs' in favor of the Typhoon, then why bother to have this debate at all? It is at best academic and designed to give temporary joy to Typhoon supporters.

Hey Gambit,

Was hoping you could answer a few questions that came to mind while reading your previous post:

Granted the LO characteristics give the f-35 a major advantage over all legacy fighters. But what about situational awareness? It has long been touted as it's biggest strength. If the f-35 finds itself in a WVR dog fight, do you agree with Lockheed and believe it will still emerge victorious a vast majority of the time?

Considering the technological capabilities of the Eurocanards and the more recent f-15 and su-27 denominations; could any of them realistically give the F-35 a formidable fight? I ask this to understand the capabilities of the aircraft within air forces that don't possess the all encompassing dominance of the skies akin to the USAF. For example, the Turks will employ the F-35 as an air superiority fighter and it will not be backed by the same unstoppable armada. In short, I am having trouble understanding the scaled down capabilities of the F-35, from a couple of thousand platforms available to the USAF, USN, and USMC; to the 100 odd available to smaller air forces.

 

[Mosamania]

What is the g-limit on a fully loaded air-air configured Typhoon which includes up to three external fuel tanks? I know what 9 gs feel like in a truly clean F-16 with only (simulated) AIM-9s. The g-limiter is necessary because of centrifugal force, however, not all limiters are the same. A visually clean Lightning can be configured for either air-ground or air-air and precisely because its weapons load are vested close to centerline, its g-limiter will not be the same as an F-16 or Typhoon similarly configured. No matter what the Typhoon pilot may claim, it will be his g-limiter that dictate his maneuverability limits.

The G-Limiter on the F-35 have taken a hit recently of you haven't noticed. The Typhoon is a +9/-3Gs air craft, I don't think I need to further explain to you of all people what that means.

No, its agile aircraft.

Lockheed Martin test pilot Jon Beesley has countered that in an air-to-air configuration the F-35 has almost as much thrust as weight and a flight control system that allows it to be fully maneuverable even at a 50-degree angle of attack.
-
In the meantime, and without discussing specific performance characteristics, Italian air force fighter pilots involved with the F-35 program tell Aviation Week that the aircraft's performance falls "between the F-16 and the F/A-18 in terms of flight envelope — and is actually closer to the F/A-18, considering its high angle of attack and slow-speed maneuvering capabilities.


More than enough for stealth aircraft.


IRIS-T is no match to DAS.

Not IRST, IRIS-T dude, there is a difference, it is okay if you get confused, they sound the same. The Typhoon is in fact more agile than the F-35 and here is what we have been saying all along, yes and "IRST". So as I stated earlier, it is agile, but not enough.