The US now faces a dilemma in the ISIS fight (the coming US-Iran alliance?)

[IR-TR]

Two royal councils: security and economic development.


But what happened my Arab uniting wonderfriend? Berber Moroccan who can't count to 10 in Arabic? Huh? I thought you were all ONE big union of 500 million pure bred Arabs? Just like one big person, never in disagreement, speaking one holy language, having the exact same goals, being all preoccupie with 'internal' Arab affairs? Huh, me confuso.. Explain to me Blease! I'm just f-king with you now, no need to reply. Hell, I'm quite done with this forum it was stupid to get signed up. It's a good place to find up to date info, but getting 'bogged down' in the 'quagmire' or mud fights is really below me. I think I'll go back to lurking. Good luck with your school work. I only recently finished mine.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Don't change the argument every time you lose your pants for all to see.

Berbers in Morocco are not Arabs although almost all of them have Arab admixture due to 1400 years of intermarrying with Arabs.

There are 450 million Arabs worldwide. EXCLUDING the Berbers.

Besides Arabs and Berbers are related people. Morocco and Algeria are basically Arab-Berber countries, meaning mixtures of those two related peoples. Genetics also confirm this.

I know for a fact that most Moroccans in the Netherlands are Berbers who left Morocco due to "harassment" as they call it.

Although there are of course many Moroccan Arabs in Netherlands too.

Now please stop crying.

Another thing people of the Arabian Peninsula can understand Moroccan Arabic. For instance all Hilalian dialects in Morocco are descendants of the dialects spoken on the Peninsula due to migrations from the Peninsula.

Moroccan Arabic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peninsula Arabs can understand every Arabic dialect (almost) unlike many other Arabs because all the Arabic dialects originate from our lands.

Go visit a forum like Word Reference and their Arabic language section of the forum.

 

[ResurgentIran]

There is not going to be a full fledged alliance between Iran and the US. Maybe some tactical cooperation where interests overlap, but disagreements in other areas.
I could however envision a scenario where US is going to do a paradigm shift and not oppose a new regional security architecture, where Iran is included (and plays a big part) to resolve regional problems.
But that will not happen over night or even a year.

Changing foreign policy is like getting a huge ocean-liner to change course in 180 degrees opposite direction.

 

[Madali]

@Madali

Sure Ahamadinejad, 1 car bomb in the GCC and the GCC stops being a 2 trillion dollar economy and the most visited region in the Muslim world etc. Everything will end. As seen in KSA a few days ago.

You don't know how to read. I specifically mentioned that terrorist actions in KSA won't destabilize it easily. This is what I exactly said, "Saudi's government is certainly less at risk when it comes to the consequences of terrorism if they occur, but smaller GCC countries like UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait will face drastic negative effects if it occurs."

You are so argumentative that you don't even read posts. You just are on attack mode all the time. KSA is different than UAE. The latter relies heavily on it's image as a stable, risk-free country in the region, which is why it can attract a lot of foreign investments, which are either western money that find Dubai the safest country to invest in out of all the M.E. countries, or money from unstable countries, such as Syria & Libya. Terrorist actions, even one, can vastly damage the country's image as a safe haven.

KSA is not at such a risk. You can have a couple of terrorist action in KSA and it won't affect it that much, because, first of all, it has a much larger indigenous population & second of all, it isn't sold as the Switzerland or Singapore of the Middle East.

Not all the GCC countries are exactly the same. I know you like to see everything as 1 Unit (GCC as 1 unit, Arabs as 1 unit, Sunnis as 1 Unit), but reality is much more complicated. The damage that a single terrorist action in UAE that can have is vastly different than in KSA and again vastly different than in Oman. And to make it even more complex, even inside the countries, the place of the terrorist action will different. Someone a car bomb in Ras Al Khaimah or Al Ain won't be that impactful as one in Dubai.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I know what you wrote and what your intentions are. You are trying to fool people here and overestimate nonsense because it fits your agenda. Do it on some Iranian forum where you will all clap in unison.

Sorry, I can't take that nonsense seriously.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Did it ever occur to you guy's that US supports ISIS notwithstanding the grandstanding? How exactly is ISIS deleterious to US interests?

Furthermore US is not going to drop Isreal or Saudia in our lifetimes. ISIS is dancing to a tune set by US, Isreal and Saudia. All the rest is just posturing for show ...

USA, Isreal and Saudia Arabia are in a embrace for a long time and nothing is going to change anytime soon ...

 

[DrawingDead]

Nonsense. You have not defined "extremism".

The war against the Soviets was legitimate and the Taliban had the majority support of the Afghans and it would not surprise me if that was the case today too.

The war against the Soviet Union was just the beginning. You've been at it ever since.

WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists | World news | The Guardian

OBL was half Yemeni and half Syrian. Try again. Most of the hijackers were of Yemeni origin too. Besides 15 people out of 30 million are irrelevant.

He was born in Saudi Arabia, schooled in Saudi Arabia. I'd be very curious to see what other qualifications you need to be considered a Saudi?

Most of the hijackers were of Yemeni origin too.

I think you should get in touch with CNN (and the rest of humanity) and tell them that. Everyone thinks they were Saudis. Again, based on their passports, of course. I'm sure you have a special qualification in mind.

September 11th Hijackers Fast Facts - CNN.com

Besides 15 people out of 30 million are irrelevant.

It would be irrelevant if they'd been from Iraq,Iran,Afghanistan or Palestine. But from our supposed friend and ally?? Yeah, that hurt a lot. I won't lie to you.

Yes, I am sure the Iraqis were very happy about your illegal invasion and its consequences.

Sure they were. Then they realized they hated each other and started killing everyone in sight.

Why when you were our mercenaries? Why should our young boys die when we can hire you? Is that not what you tend to say?

You should look up the Carter Doctrine and the Reagan Corollary to the Carter Doctrine.

"Under the Reagan Corollary to the Carter Doctrine, the U.S. has guaranteed both the territorial integrity and internal stability of Saudi Arabia."

See this is what make 9-11 tragic beyond massive loss of human life. We guaranteed your safety and security with our lives and your people returned the favor by flying planes into our buildings. Trust me, you can't get lower than that.

Oh, and actually Saudi Arabian troops fought in the Battle of Khafji. The only battle in KSA.

Look at what the last American soldiers says in this video below. "This was a Saudi victory with American support".

Our commanders are trained to be extremely complimentary about our allies, even if they're borderline incompetent. If you watch the video itself, we were ones knocking them out with Artillery and from the air. It was actually called a "morale booster" for the Saudi Army.

Also our ancestors created 3 of the 11 largest empires more than any ethnic group in the top 15.

We don't need any lectures about military history from anybody.

List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Checkmate buddy.

Hey you got anything from this millennium? Or are you planning to milk this one till kingdom come. Here's a couple of things you might wanna ponder. First, If you have to go back a thousand years to find a positive in your civilization, you're doing something wrong. Second, tiny British Isles built the largest empire in the world. Third, guess what my ancestors built? The most powerful nation in the world TODAY. I don't have to go back a thousand years to find anything. I live it everyday.

The reality is, when war was about swords, horses and blind brutality, your were on top. Once it became about technology, grand strategies and innovation, you've taken your rightful place at the back of the line. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

The war against the Soviet Union was just the beginning. You've been at it ever since.

WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists | World news | The Guardian



He was born in Saudi Arabia, schooled in Saudi Arabia. I'd be very curious to see what other qualifications you need to be considered a Saudi?



I think you should get in touch with CNN (and the rest of humanity) and tell them that. Everyone thinks they were Saudis. Again, based on their passports, of course. I'm sure you have a special qualification in mind.

September 11th Hijackers Fast Facts - CNN.com



It would be irrelevant if they'd been from Iraq,Iran,Afghanistan or Palestine. But from our supposed friend and ally?? Yeah, that hurt a lot. I won't lie to you.



Sure they were. Then they realized they hated each other and started killing everyone in sight.

View attachment 224466



You should look up the Carter Doctrine and the Reagan Corollary to the Carter Doctrine.

"Under the Reagan Corollary to the Carter Doctrine, the U.S. has guaranteed both the territorial integrity and internal stability of Saudi Arabia."

See this is what make 9-11 tragic beyond massive loss of human life. We guaranteed your safety and security with our lives and your people returned the favor by flying planes into our buildings. Trust me, you can't get lower than that.



Our commanders are trained to be extremely complimentary about our allies, even if they're borderline incompetent. If you watch the video itself, we were ones knocking them out with Artillery and from the air. It was actually called a "morale booster" for the Saudi Army.





Hey you got anything from this millennium? Or are you planning to milk this one till kingdom come. Here's a couple of things you might wanna ponder. First, If you have to go back a thousand years to find a positive in your civilization, you're doing something wrong. Second, tiny British Isles built the largest empire in the world. Third, guess what my ancestors built? The most powerful nation in the world TODAY. I don't have to go back a thousand years to find anything. I live it everyday.

The reality is, when war was about swords, horses and blind brutality, your were on top. Once it became about technology, grand strategies and innovation, you've taken your rightful place at the back of the line. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't believe those reports nor do I care about them.

That does not make him a Saudi Arabian. Millions of other Arabs (non-natives) and others from across the world were born in KSA and lived their whole lives there. Does not make them Saudi Arabian due to that if you ask me. Just like dozens of European citizens do not recognize the migrants that have native passports as natives and they are in their right to do so.

I am just telling you about their origins.

So what if they were born in a country that is your ally? They are/were still 15 people out of 30 million people. Also what kind of logic is that?

KSA also has the 4th highest number of foreign students at US universities and the highest number of foreign students per capita by far? Your point?

Saddam Hussein could have been toppled differently and I am sure that the Iraqis could have done without the catastrophic aftereffects of your illegal invasion.

Yes, of course you reached those deals with the regime without any favors whatsoever because the US has proven to be the sole angel on this planet. Always out there to help others. Give me a break. If KSA was not in your vital interests in the MENA region you would not have made such a deal in the first place. As simple as that.

Whatever you say. Saddam Hussein would not have been able to conquer KSA anyway. At most a few border towns and then he would have been repelled back. KSA is the 12th largest country on the planet with all kind of landscapes and a population that never accepted or will accept invaders.

History did not begin 250 years ago when your nation was created. Besides the point is that you are in no position to talk down on our military past when it is one of the greatest of all peoples. Besides the legacy of that is the Arab world an area of the world the size of Russia. Spread on 2 different continents.

I think we did OK.

That's solely due to the West's dominance of technology for the past 500 years. Before it was the ME (Arab world to be precise) that was leading for millenniums along with China.

Besides nothing stops us from reaching the same level. Nothing is static after all.

Speaking about brutality (I am part European so that part of the world is "my history too) then the Europeans are sole winners in that category and nobody comes even remotely close. Maybe the Chinese.

50 million Europeans died between WW1 and WW2 alone. Call me the next time Arabs will even reach 10% of that number in such a short time span.

The GCC is safer than the US. Our crime, murder etc. rates are many times smaller. So don't worry about us. In the end you are irrelevant in the wider picture and US/GCC relations are as good as ever and will continue to be important as long as both parties can benefit from each other. Simple as that.

I know that you are a Islamophobe (I can spot your likes instantly) but know one thing and remember this. Islam is here to stay. Soon the number of Muslims will reach 2 billion and almost 30% of the entire world's population. So are Arabs. We are going nowhere.

And while 9/11 was a crime that no sane person should support your country has committed 1000's of 9/11 from Vietnam to Iraq. Yet when you killed thousands upon thousands of our brethren in Iraq our regime never questioned your friendship.

So keep those 15 fools out of the equation if you want to be taken seriously. And for all I care leave the region maybe this will actually benefit the region and make the idiotic leaders take action over their own affairs like they are able to and are supposed to do.

Besides almost anyone can become an American provided that they have no criminal record if I am not wrong. I could too if I stayed a few years in the US. A land of migrants. 3.5 million of my brethren are already in the US and are as American as you are. The real Americans are the Native Americans. Speaking about brutality…...

 

[Azizam]

There's no point of wasting so much resources to crush little groups that comes every now and then like IS. Unless the root cause is eliminated, these groups are going to pop up and it's going to be a "whack-a-mole" type situation.

 

[DrawingDead]

US/GCC relations are as good as ever and will continue to be important as long as both parties can benefit from each other. Simple as that.

Umm...that was what I was discussing with the OP (See posts #13 and #16) before you decided to throw your 2 cents in (and I'm being very generous, of course when I say it was worth 2 cents). You decided to jump in with "Or maybe you should not have invaded Iraq on false premises to begin with?" to which I pointed out (rightly, if I may say so my self) that maybe it would have been a good idea for the Saudis not to sponsor religious extremism.

I know that you are a Islamophobe (I can spot your likes instantly) but know one thing and remember this. Islam is here to stay. Soon the number of Muslims will reach 2 billion and almost 30% of the entire world's population. So are Arabs. We are going nowhere.

Of course, I'd have to be an Islamophobe. I mean how else could you explain me not agreeing with you. Here's a dose of reality. You are a horrible racist. That's not something I throw out there lightly but you? You really are an out and out racist. I see your comments about people from other parts of the world and, to tell you the truth, its pretty horrifying. Like l said in one my posts, you should really take a good, hard look in the mirror.

Of course, everyone's here to stay. The days of genocide and extermination are (hopefully) behind us. But people with your mindset of racial superiority are also here to stay. Its the unavoidable consequence of lack of individual self-worth.

And while 9/11 was a crime that no sane person should support your country has committed 1000's of 9/11 from Vietnam to Iraq. Yet when you killed thousands upon thousands of our brethren in Iraq our regime never questioned your friendship.

So has yours. You, yourself, have pointed out with quite a bit of pride how your people built the 3 largest empires. As I'm sure you can imagine, those empires weren't built just with winning personalities and brilliant smiles.

Your regime never questioned our friendship because your regime doesn't doubt where our loyalties lie. They're concerning themselves with their state. You, on the other hand, are concerning yourself with a wider spectrum. At this point, I just want to point out that we didn't kill thousand upon thousands of your brethren, your own brethren did had a lot to do with it.

Wait, there's more. I don't think we went to war in Iraq without the blessings of your king. I think it was discussed with the Saudis and approved by them. I think they were happy that we're taking Saddam down. The only thing they probably asked for, is not be named so people like you wouldn't freak out. I don't see how we'd go to war without talking to our biggest and most influential ally in the region.

So keep those 15 fools out of the equation if you want to be taken seriously. And for all I care leave the region maybe this will actually benefit the region and make the idiotic leaders take action over their own affairs like they are able to and are supposed to do.

Here's the thing, I wouldn't have even thought about if you hadn't in jumped into the mix. I was just having a discussion with the OP regarding the drawbacks of a rushed nuclear deal with Iran. You're the one who decided to bring up the past. Now it looks like your feelings are hurt. How is that my problem?

Besides almost anyone can become an American provided that they have no criminal record if I am not wrong. I could too if I stayed a few years in the US.

Technically, yes. But there's a very long waiting list and lottery system and a lot of hoops to jump through. But the thing is, we don't tell a man that holding a US passport doesn't make him sufficiently American if he doesn't belong to one tribe or the other.

A land of migrants. 3.5 million of my brethren are already in the US and are as American as you are.

Not sure why that's relevant since we don't discriminate based on race or origin but ok.

The real Americans are the Native Americans. Speaking about brutality…...

People aren't Muslims and speaking Arabic throughout the middle east and north Africa because of your winning personality and brilliant smiles. So lets try not to get into this. Like the good book says, Judge not, lest ye be judged,

 

[Superboy]

ISIS is Saudi Arabia's tool just as Novorossiya is Russia's tool. ISIS is no threat to Saudi Arabia just as Novorossiya is no threat to Russia.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Umm...that was what I was discussing with the OP (See posts #13 and #16) before you decided to throw your 2 cents in (and I'm being very generous, of course when I say it was worth 2 cents). You decided to jump in with "Or maybe you should not have invaded Iraq on false premises to begin with?" to which I pointed out (rightly, if I may say so my self) that maybe it would have been a good idea for the Saudis not to sponsor religious extremism.



Of course, I'd have to be an Islamophobe. I mean how else could you explain me not agreeing with you. Here's a dose of reality. You are a horrible racist. That's not something I throw out there lightly but you? You really are an out and out racist. I see your comments about people from other parts of the world and, to tell you the truth, its pretty horrifying. Like l said in one my posts, you should really take a good, hard look in the mirror.

Of course, everyone's here to stay. The days of genocide and extermination are (hopefully) behind us. But people with your mindset of racial superiority are also here to stay. Its the unavoidable consequence of lack of individual self-worth.



So has yours. You, yourself, have pointed out with quite a bit of pride how your people built the 3 largest empires. As I'm sure you can imagine, those empires weren't built just with winning personalities and brilliant smiles.

Your regime never questioned our friendship because your regime doesn't doubt where our loyalties lie. They're concerning themselves with their state. You, on the other hand, are concerning yourself with a wider spectrum. At this point, I just want to point out that we didn't kill thousand upon thousands of your brethren, your own brethren did had a lot to do with it.

Wait, there's more. I don't think we went to war in Iraq without the blessings of your king. I think it was discussed with the Saudis and approved by them. I think they were happy that we're taking Saddam down. The only thing they probably asked for, is not be named so people like you wouldn't freak out. I don't see how we'd go to war without talking to our biggest and most influential ally in the region.



Here's the thing, I wouldn't have even thought about if you hadn't in jumped into the mix. I was just having a discussion with the OP regarding the drawbacks of a rushed nuclear deal with Iran. You're the one who decided to bring up the past. Now it looks like your feelings are hurt. How is that my problem?



Technically, yes. But there's a very long waiting list and lottery system and a lot of hoops to jump through. But the thing is, we don't tell a man that holding a US passport doesn't make him sufficiently American if he doesn't belong to one tribe or the other.



Not sure why that's relevant since we don't discriminate based on race or origin but ok.



People aren't Muslims and speaking Arabic throughout the middle east and north Africa because of your winning personality and brilliant smiles. So lets try not to get into this. Like the good book says, Judge not, lest ye be judged,

Change your disc. I might take you seriously then.

 

[DrawingDead]

Change your disc. I might take you seriously then.

You cannot seriously believe I care about what you think of me.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

You cannot seriously believe I care about what you think of me.

Don't care but you are apparently willing to write novels aimed at me. Anyway let's leave it here. If I was in the mood for a long detailed discussion I would have taken it. Since you omitted large parts of my reply to you I don't really bother right now.

 

[Madali]

I don't believe those reports nor do I care about them.

That does not make him a Saudi Arabian. Millions of other Arabs (non-natives) and others from across the world were born in KSA and lived their whole lives there. Does not make them Saudi Arabian due to that if you ask me. Just like dozens of European citizens do not recognize the migrants that have native passports as natives and they are in their right to do so.

I am just telling you about their origins.

Here is exactly why you will never understand Iran and how it has survived for centuries even though it has multiple ethnicities & religions. To you, a person born in Saudi with a Saudi citizenship is not really a Saudi.

In Iran, that's not how it is. If a person was born in Iran and had an Iranian citizenship, then he would be as Iranian as me. We wouldn't have to look at his complete family ancestry and then take him for a blood test to check out his DNA to see if he is "Iranian".

Of course, in your situation, it's even weirder that you are so clear cut on who is Saudi and who is not, given that your country is the only country in the world that is named after a ruling family...