The untold story of Malaysian Airlines MH17

[gambit]

lol... People don't really know how Air-Air Engagement works here

In almost all Jet to Jet combat, if gun (or cannon) were involved, the attacker usually needed to be fire from the victim 6 o'clock, unlike missile, gun can't turn and chase their prey and with 2 fast jet merge can have a combine speed of 1000 to 1200 mph (Boeing 767 can go as fast as 570mph cruise while Su-25 can go up to 670 mph cruise)

so, if that hole in the cockpit near fuselage are indeed cannon or bullet hole, the attacker much be at 90 degree left (Bearing 270) with the MH-17, with gun accurate anywhere between 3 to 5 nm, it give the fighter/bomber pilot roughly 0.3 second to fire a burst and hit the MH-17 and dodge out of the way.

If that's what exactly happened, then either the pilot (Be that Russia or Ukrainian) would either be a crack shot or extremely lucky.

If that is indeed a cannon strike, then it is highly probable it was from ground AAA, not really likely from an air-air engagement. Chances of an Air-Air engagement resulting that kind of hole that kind of position is much like the chance a pig can fly.

@gambit would give you more insight.

Or it is a Hollywood production.

Head on and off angle gun shots are the staples of fiction, not real combat. That is not to say such situation never occurred or that aircrafts have not been shot down that way. What it means is that these situations are situations of last resort, extremely of preferable choices.

People should just leave these loony conspiracy theories alone. They usually defy logic, common sense, real experience, and often the laws of physics.

 

[jhungary]

Or it is a Hollywood production.

Head on and off angle gun shots are the staples of fiction, not real combat. That is not to say such situation never occurred or that aircrafts have not been shot down that way. What it means is that these situations are situations of last resort, extremely of preferable choices.

People should just leave these loony conspiracy theories alone. They usually defy logic, common sense, real experience, and often the laws of physics.

lol, all I can say is, stranger than fiction........

 

[jhungary]

Those holes in the cockpit are consistent with rounds exiting the aluminum skin. It could either be some proximity fuse missile or machine gun pock marks.



But if it was a ground AA, can the rounds reach that high?

By the way @Penguin west does propaganda all the time. But when Russia or someone else says something that does not conform to their narrative, thats branded propaganda immediately.

You missed my point, the hole being a cannon strike (either by aircraft or AAA) are unlikely. Shrapnel or even damage from the ground can make that hole, we (Everyone of us) cannot be save for sure that this is or isn't a bullet hole as we are only looking at a picture, when anyone of us have the access of the real thing, then maybe, we can speculate.

Until then, it would not look like a cannon strike or bullet hole to me, and if it does, it have a better chance that it come from AAA then A2A engagement. As me and gambit explained already, most attack came from behind, firing on the side like this may make good movie, but this never happen IRL

 

[Penguin]

Those holes in the cockpit are consistent with rounds exiting the aluminum skin. It could either be some proximity fuse missile or machine gun pock marks.

This is a 9n314 warhead . It has 2 layers of different sized prefragmented fragments, total numbering 7600. Visible are fragments of about 13mm.
A detailed description of the BUK SA-11 which could have shot down MH17 | What happened to flight MH17?

By the way @Penguin west does propaganda all the time. But when Russia or someone else says something that does not conform to their narrative, thats branded propaganda immediately.

Sure, whatever you don't like call it propaganda. I could say the same of a fair number of Eastern European posters here. Please indicate (i.e. quote) instances I've claimed someone else's post was propaganda.

Bblablablabla

http://s13.postimg.org/xnl7712sn/BUK_shrapnel_pattern.jpg

 

[Basel]

I want to know what really happened to MH-17 & MH-370?? Surprisingly both planes belonged to Malaysian Airlines.

 

[Penguin]

Now answer me why
1.No black box report was released
2.No ATC tower records were released
3.No questions asked to ATC operators
4.No AWACS/sat intel released
5.Why Ukraine(country which during exercises before shot down passenger jet ) has a right to veto .
And we can talk after about your "premature","secrecy "and "classified" .

http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/upload...3acad0ceprem-rapport-mh-17-en-interactief.pdf
Preliminary report
See page 9 for an overview of the information made available to the Dutch Safety Board
See page 15 for a transcript of ATC communications
See page 33 for Flight Data Recorder information (together with Cockpit Voice Recorder the 'black box')

Dutch Safety Board | Investigations & Publication | Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014

I've posted in other thread here the applicable treaty protocols, which also included clauses on release, veto etc.

 

[BHAN85]

Check this flightradar24 forum, 7777-Malaysian-B777-MH17-crash-poss-shot-down/page11

¿ADS-B / GPS spoofing in order to deceive ukrainian militias?

 

[Penguin]

Check this flightradar24 forum, 7777-Malaysian-B777-MH17-crash-poss-shot-down/page11

¿ADS-B / GPS spoofing in order to deceive ukrainian militias?

Malaysian B777 MH17 crash - poss shot down - Page 11