The United States of Islam

[SkyWolf]

It's a noble thought but it won't work YET.

Why not?

1. The leadership of the vast majority of Muslim countries is part of the corrupt elites responsible for the plight of Muslim countries. The vast majority of our countries have not achieved anything close to their potential. These people are interested in themselves and their own pockets.

2. The majority of Muslims are uneducated or under educated and don't know about the benefits of political/economic/militart unity or it's history and value. They are all taught by the mullah class to look at anyone other than themselves with suspicion.

3. The educated amongst us, are also fully signed up to capitalism and nationalism, anything that is different to that, potentially threatens their comfortable existence and therefore will not support any such notion.

How to rectify this?

Many of the things i will suggest are already happening but need to be rolled out wider.

1. Greater education. This ranges from basic literacy through to people writing political thesis or thinktanks doing funded research on the benefits and the steps that could be taken to have greater cohesion between Muslim states. This information must be spread through the different levels of society so this is an idea that is not just at the fringes of society.

2. Practice what you preach. Within our own homes, within our own nations we must show unity and a spirit of cooperation for the greater good. Only when this is engrained within us and becomes part of our ethos can we really roll it out further.

3. Add value to yourself and your nation. Nobody wants to be trading partner or in cultural exchange or military ally of someone who has nothing to add to the partnership. When the EU was formed, initially it was made of nations in similar economic positions. New member states had to meet certain requirements to enter.

What next?

1. Follow the money. Trade relations between nations are the strongest and most likely bond to form.

2. Start local and aim for the low hanging fruit. We are next door to Afghanistan and Iran, we should try to build economic, cultural and security ties with them. It's easier than building those ties with Algeria who are in the other side of the world. We have strong ties with Turkey and Saudi Arabia, we should continue to work on those.

3. Be pragmatic. Not everyone has to be friends with everyone, nobody has to be all in, do what you can get done with whoever you can get it done with. Don't turn down economic ties because someone won't offer visa exchange or whatever.

4. Work together on common interests. There is no point forming a partnership with Iran to liberate Palestine. Lets focus on security on our own border. If Russian oil is going to flow through Afghanistan and Pakistan into the Arabian sea, lets work on a deal to get the best transit price together - rather than individually.

5. Start small but aim big. We might start with preferential trading rates, but lets work towards FTA and then extend it to include more nations. Maybe have our own joint currency in the future, like our own euro?

6. Don't try to do the impossible. Iran and Saudi will never be friends, Shia Iran will never include itself in a predominantly Sunni Caliphate, but there is no reason why we can't work with them, or why we can't work to de-escalate hostilities towards them. The UK and France fought each other on and off for the best part of a 1000 years.

Zabardast Post. Fyi i am working on a response to all the great feedback from this educated and knowledgeable group.

 

[drmeson]

Typical victim mentality, anyone who attacks your regime is anti shia.

Iranic plateau is a land of warriors and cradle of civilizations. Your own kind got created because of neolitihic iranic migrations into your region. Does this sound like victim mentality ? really ...

- You backed Hizbollah in Lebanon, a militant group which was running a shadow government. They forced Lebanon into a war with Israel in 2006 and later even expressed regret for the decision. Tell me this - would Iran tolerate a militant group acting in it's territory? Then why provide support for Hizbollah in peacetime? I can understand during times of war, but why maintain a proxy in Lebanon?

You did same in Afghanstan with beheading nomads called talibans. Turkey did it with FSA in suriye. KSA tried and failed with Al nusrah ... Why blame us only ? this is the modus operandi of governments. Mind you that Hezbollah Fights Israel and Daesh. Turkish FSA or Saudi Nusrah were cutting heads of muslim children in Syria. I do not see you objecting to that. Hezbollah doesnt or never has done that. They are tough warriors with morality.

- In Iraq you supported shia militias and backed elements who engaged in sectarian cleansing of sunnis.

Iraqi shiites (the majority) did what they wanted to do. They have been there and have been shiites before most of Iran was even muslim. Iran has little to do with inner arab tribal fights. Yes we have allies and partners but what Iraqi shiites do with Iraqi sunnis is upto them similiarly what Secular Syrian government does to Syria is upto them.

- In Syria you did the same. You sent forces to support Assad and engaged in sectarian cleansing against sunnis.

there is no proof of that. This is a BS claim. There has never been any ethnic or sectarian sunni cleansing in Syria. Our forces in Syria are there to back a secular Arab leader who was being toppled by western governments for their own gains. He is a strategic ally. Do you think Russia also backed him because Russia has sunni hatred ? lol

Our boys there massacred only those who were chopping heads of children. You support Daesh then you should question yourself not people who laid their lives to save innocent.

This is all part of the shia crescent policy persued by your regime.

Offcourse

no denying but we do have Sunni and secular allies. Its more of a Iranian crescent. I do not know what to call it but its a strong alliance of Iranic and Levant, Penninsular nations.

Even in Pakistan Iran has supported criminals like Uzair Baloch and faciliated indian terrorism in Pakistan - google who kulbhushan Yadav is. This is despite Pakistan playing a neutral role in Iran/Saudi proxy war in the region.

Give me one solid evidence that Indian spy was being directed by Iranian authorities. Can you do that ?

Iran can only move forwards when it recognises the impact of it's actions. You might well have justification for what you do, but at what cost? What is the long term impact of that cost?

I am not into politics much. Sorry Azizam

 

[SkyWolf]

Should be posted under "Stupid and Funny" section.

With Muslims killing Muslims all around the world, with divided Middle East, with Shia Sunni,Ahmadi, Bora conflicts, with Greed and Corruption rampant in most of these Muslim/Islamic republics...you are dreaming of an Islamic Bock.

Tell me a period in whole history when Muslims were united.....they have been slaying each other for crown, wealth, power....Oh yes, long back Arabs invaded and won large swaths of lands in middle east, Africa and south western Europe....that was the only time there was a Muslim block called Caliphate...after that they kept on sinking in Abyss.

You are a very intelligent person. You should stay out of this discussion. you are too good for it. Thanks.

 

[313ghazi]

Iranic plateau is a land of warriors and cradle of civilizations. Your own kind got created because of neolitihic iranic migrations into your region. Does this sound like victim mentality ? really ...

Funnily enough the earliest records of mankind are from South Africa - make of that what you will. You yourself were created when someone stuck a ... in a ...., just like the rest of us. I don't think it holds any relevance to this moment or this discussion, much like the migration patterns of early mankind.

You did same in Afghanstan with beheading nomads called talibans. Turkey did it with FSA in suriye. KSA tried and failed with Al nusrah ... Why blame us only ?

Why do you Iranian guys always engage in whataboutery? Why do you people assume because i have called you out of it, i must secretly support others who do the same? Read some topics about SAudi influence, i am just as critical, if not more of them.

I mention later on in my post the exact point you have raised about Afghanistan. We made a choice, it had consequences. Iran has made choices - people of Iran must consider implications of those consequences.

this is the modus operandi of governments.

Yes it is. If we consider ourselves allies, this must change. Pakistan and Iran are neighbours. You have your problems with us, we have our problems with you - to address these there needs to be a will to listen to the opinion of others, accept that for what it is, then take steps to move forwards and have confidence building measures.

Hezbollah doesnt or never has done that. They are tough warriors with morality.

There are plenty of allegations and evidences against shia death squads in Iraq and Syria. These have been armed indirectly and in some cases directly by Iran. The Arabs have been backing their own sunni or wahhabi equivalents. The same is true in Yemen.

What is the end game? People made mince meat whilst those in Tehran and Riyadh enjoy life. I am not internationa lawyer, i cannot make a case to take your country to court.

======

My whole point is - what you called an alliance, it's no alliance, it's a list of civil wars where Iran and Arabs have picked sides. That is not the alliance Pakistan can be part of, nor one your country should be a part of. There is more than one way to achieve a goal.

 

[drmeson]

Funnily enough the earliest records of mankind are from South Africa - make of that what you will. You yourself were created when someone stuck a ... in a ...., just like the rest of us. I don't think it holds any relevance to this moment or this discussion, much like the migration patterns of early mankind.

Yes it makes difference. You called us having victim mentality and I merely pointed out that we are very proud (but not supremacists or haters) people with ancient history.

Iranic land gave you Indus valley, Aryans , Sychtians .... Islam ... think before hating us

Why do you Iranian guys always engage in whataboutery? Why do you people assume because i have called you out of it, i must secretly support others who do the same? Read some topics about SAudi influence, i am just as critical, if not more of them.

I mention later on in my post the exact point you have raised about Afghanistan. We made a choice, it had consequences. Iran has made choices - people of Iran must consider implications of those consequences.

So you do agree that what our backed militias do ... is nothing different from what other countries do ? Thanks for agreeing with me and again stop pointing us out when you yourself belong to a country using violent militias for political gains.

Yes it is. If we consider ourselves allies, this must change. Pakistan and Iran are neighbours. You have your problems with us, we have our problems with you - to address these there needs to be a will to listen to the opinion of others, accept that for what it is, then take steps to move forwards and have confidence building measures.

Your nation have lots of good people. There were warriors from Afghanistan and Pakistan who saved people in Syria and Iraq from Daesh massacres. I salute those tough boys who forgot about their lives and saved humanity. Imagine how many children they saved from being beheaded. Would you thank them as a human being ?

But your nation also has stupid bigots who think they are arabs or they have some stake in middle eastern tribal fights. You would not see such stupid behavior from Iranian members here. Would you explain why ?

There are plenty of allegations and evidences against shia death squads in Iraq and Syria. These have been armed indirectly and in some cases directly by Iran. The Arabs have been backing their own sunni or wahhabi equivalents. The same is true in Yemen.

What is the end game? People made mince meat whilst those in Tehran and Riyadh enjoy life. I am not internationa lawyer, i cannot make a case to take your country to court.

======

My whole point is - what you called an alliance, it's no alliance, it's a list of civil wars where Iran and Arabs have picked sides. That is not the alliance Pakistan can be part of, nor one your country should be a part of. There is more than one way to achieve a goal.

Iran and arabs ? Biggest allies of Iran today are arabs .. shiite arabs, secular arabs, sunni arabs, levant Arabs, Penninsular Arabs. They were like this even during times of great Iranic empires. What do you think is the spoken language among Hezbollah ranks ? This is no Iranic vs Semite fight.

Iraqi sectarian fights have nothing to do with Iran. They had this problem for centuries. Inner arab tribal fights literally have been going on ever since word arab came into being. Do you seriously think what is happening between Yemen and KSA just started few years back. IRI came into being in 1979 and gained power in 2000s as a regional powerhouse that it has become today. KSA fought wars with Yemen, Egypt, Iraq before that. Would you care to explain that ? You people have become blinded by your stupid sectarian agendas that you have lost common sense.
.............

I am still waiting for the evidence that indian spy was being operated by Iranian authorities. You made a claim please back it up otherwise you will loose credibility as a person.

 

[Hamza913]

Iranic plateau is a land of warriors and cradle of civilizations.

The Fertile Crescent is more deserving of the latter title, and Pakhtunkhwa is more deserving of the former.

Your own kind got created because of neolitihic iranic migrations into your region.

No, those migrations predate the existence of an Iranic people. They just happened to pass through Iran during their migrations out of the Fertile Crescent.

Iranic land gave you Indus valley, Aryans , Sychtians .... Islam ... think before hating us

Islam came from Allah, and Rasulullah (peace be upon him) was not Iranic. Indus Valley Civilisation is also considered to have not been Iranic (but nobody can really agree on what they are), and the Aryans probably came from the Caucasus.

 

[313ghazi]

Yes it makes difference. You called us having victim mentality and I merely pointed out that we are very proud (but not supremacists or haters) people with ancient history.

Iranic land gave you Indus valley, Aryans , Sychtians .... Islam ... think before hating us

The victim mentality is evident on PDF. Anyone who disagrees with the Ayatollah narrative is immediately shouted down as a Saudi supporter or anti Shia.

So you do agree that what our backed militias do ... is nothing different from what other countries do ? Thanks for agreeing with me and again stop pointing us out when you yourself belong to a country using violent militias for political gains.

It's not the same as everyone else. You and the Gulf Arabs have made sectarian proxies a cornerstone of your foreign policy.

Your nation have lots of good people. There were warriors from Afghanistan and Pakistan who saved people in Syria and Iraq from Daesh massacres. I salute those tough boys who forgot about their lives and saved humanity. Imagine how many children they saved from being beheaded. Would you thank them as a human being ?

But your nation also has stupid bigots who think they are arabs or they have some stake in middle eastern tribal fights. You would not see such stupid behavior from Iranian members here. Would you explain why ?

You're so blinded by your sectarianism it's not even funny. Praising Shia terrorists because they killed sunnis in Syria.

Iran and arabs ? Biggest allies of Iran today are arabs .. shiite arabs, secular arabs, sunni arabs, levant Arabs, Penninsular Arabs. They were like this even during times of great Iranic empires. What do you think is the spoken language among Hezbollah ranks ? This is no Iranic vs Semite fight.[ /QUOTE]

I did not paint this as an ethnic conflict. It is you and the Gulf Arabs fighting each other for influence in the region.

Iraqi sectarian fights have nothing to do with Iran. They had this problem for centuries. Inner arab tribal fights literally have been going on ever since word arab came into being. Do you seriously think what is happening between Yemen and KSA just started few years back. IRI came into being in 1979 and gained power in 2000s as a regional powerhouse that it has become today. KSA fought wars with Yemen, Egypt, Iraq before that. Would you care to explain that ? You people have become blinded by your stupid sectarian agendas that you have lost common sense.

The conflicts today are fueled purely by Iran and its proxies. The houthis are armed and manned exclusively by you.

I am still waiting for the evidence that indian spy was being operated by Iranian authorities. You made a claim please back it up otherwise you will loose credibility as a person.

I didn't say that. You seem to be in the habit of making up lies about people but the text is there to see. You facilitated it, you provided India access to charabar port where this Raw operative was working from.

 

[drmeson]

The victim mentality is evident on PDF. Anyone who disagrees with the Ayatollah narrative is immediately shouted down as a Saudi supporter or anti Shia.

Its not victim mentality lol Its called patriotism. I love my country like how others love theirs. And btw What exactly is ayatollah narrative ?

It's not the same as everyone else. You and the Gulf Arabs have made sectarian proxies a cornerstone of your foreign policy.

Its Persian Gulf and you will be very illiterate if you call it otherwise.

You accuse Iran of wielding sectarian militias but your country did same with Talibans, Turkey did same with FSA, KSA does same with its own factions. Why accuse us only ?

You're so blinded by your sectarianism it's not even funny. Praising Shia terrorists because they killed sunnis in Syria.

Right ... you are such a cute Daesh supporter that you are calling them "sunnis in syria" and brave people who fought them as shia terrorist.

 

[313ghazi]

Its not victim mentality lol Its called patriotism. I love my country like how others love theirs. And btw What exactly is ayatollah narrative ?



Its Persian Gulf and you will be very illiterate if you call it otherwise.

You accuse Iran of wielding sectarian militias but your country did same with Talibans, Turkey did same with FSA, KSA does same with its own factions. Why accuse us only ?



Right ... you are such a cute Daesh supporter that you are calling them "sunnis in syria" and brave people who fought them as shia terrorist.

This mentality here is exactly why Iran is and will remain a pariah in the region. You followers of the Ayatollahs are arrogant, self obsessed and insular.

You're so wrapped up in your inner narrative that you assumed the term Gulf Arab refers to the body of water known as the Persian Gulf, rather than the Arab nations dotted around the Gulf. You're incapable and unwilling to listen to any arguements that don't self validate your narrow view of the world.

Just because other people also do wrong things does not mean I will support and validate Iran using terrorism and proxies as a tool of foreign policy. The Shia cresent policy being followed by the Ayatollah has backfired already in Iraq and eventually will do in Lebanon and Syria too. Meanwhile Iran is isolating itself from all it's othjer neighbours.

I can't want until we you people get a progressive leader like the Shah again, so we can have a neighbour who we can work with, rather than one we have to work around.

 

[drmeson]

The Fertile Crescent is more deserving of the latter title, and Pakhtunkhwa is more deserving of the former.

Your "pakhtunkhawa" is part of Iranic plateau. An average Afghan is just a basic eastern Iranic man altered by mild mixes from mongoloid (mostly female lines) and to some extent by Indid mixing (towards east). Afghanistan is an integral and always been part of Iranic empires until recent times. Challenge me and I will start pulling Autosomal DNA matches to prove that an Afghan, Tajik is just as Iranic as any Kurd, Persian etc is.

Read what Iranic Plateau is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Plateauhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Plateau

read by genetics, phenotypes, language ... which subgroups are part of Iranic nation. Modern day Iran is just one nation representing Iranic race. There are many others as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples#Eastern_Iranian_peoples

No, those migrations predate the existence of an Iranic people. They just happened to pass through Iran during their migrations out of the Fertile Crescent.

Iranic people are older than any other cline.

Iranic neolithic farmers (Iran_N) migrated to what is now pakistan and mixed with south Indian ASI (mostly females) to create IVC. Again challenge me and I will start posting Autosomal DNA of lots of you to prove that. CHG component in south asia was brought by none other than Iran_N. CHG in an average IVC man even today is as high as any Iran_N of that time. IVC was literally built by Iranian neolithic farmers.

It will take some time but read this paper

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929718303987

As a matter of fact Iranian and Anatolian Cline are even older than whole indian or european clines. Technically speaking Iranic plataeu (along with Anatolia if one wants to consider it a separate entity) gave birth to almost the whole world. You want to deny that ?

In these published images, try to find the IVC and your very own indian cline and then Iranian one.

You know the fun part. Modern day Iranians show extreme level genetic continity from iron age. Nothing has changed in Iran from that era. Deny that and I will prove it by Autosomal and haplogroup DNA.

Aryans probably came from the Caucasus.

Aryans were mixtures of Steppe EMBA and MLBA (Iranian neolithic Farmers input from Khvalynsk) and BMAC (Iranic Plataeu). Their modern day equivalent are none other than real descendants of BMAC i.e Tajiks (Persian speaking Iranian). The Aryan haplogroup R1a z93 is very high among Caucasian Tajiks today. They entered south asia from modern day Tajikistan and Afghanistan both of which are Integral parts of Iranic Plateau. Challenge me and more shall come.

This mentality here is exactly why Iran is and will remain a pariah in the region. You followers of the Ayatollahs are arrogant, self obsessed and insular.

We are strongly allied with 5 nations in ME. Partially allied with 3 others. I do not see the word Pariah fitting on us.

I follow nothing but Iranian identity. You hate Iranian nation then its your problem not mine. You are not the first one and wont be the last. We are still standing.

You're so wrapped up in your inner narrative that you assumed the term Gulf Arab refers to the body of water known as the Persian Gulf, rather than the Arab nations dotted around the Gulf. You're incapable and unwilling to listen to any arguements that don't self validate your narrow view of the world.

Its Persian Gulf. Rest is trash talk that I do not take part in.

Just because other people also do wrong things does not mean I will support and validate Iran using terrorism and proxies as a tool of foreign policy. The Shia cresent policy being followed by the Ayatollah has backfired already in Iraq and eventually will do in Lebanon and Syria too. Meanwhile Iran is isolating itself from all it's othjer neighbours.

terrorism ? what are you talking about ? your own talibans and Turkish FSA, Saudi Al nusra cut heads than its fun and strategy but if our Hezb or Houthis defend themselves then its terrorism ? are you really that stupid ?

And what has backfired in Iraq please explain ?

 

[fisher1]

LOL

Mahathir banned Dr Zakir Naik from doing Dawah in Malaysia and spreading the message of Islam to his Kafir Malaysian population.

And he's going to form an Islamic channel.

What a pathetic joke.

Also Imran Khan is only good for speeches, he will take a Uturn on this too.

Dr Zakir Naik peace channel has been doing this for free but he is banned by the very same people who are thinking of running an Islamic channel.

 

[Hamza913]

Your "pakhtunkhawa" is part of Iranic plateau.

Agreed, but I don't think the rest of it is as martial.

Iranic people are older than any other cline.

No, Iranic people only existed after the IE migrations occurred. Just because they are called Iranian farmers doesn't mean they're Iranic.

 

[drmeson]

Agreed, but I don't think the rest of it is as martial.

Thats a fun contest we Iranics have between each other. Ask any Kurd he will say Kurdish are the best Iranic warriors because of Medes, Persians take pride in intercontinental massive Persian empires. Azeris (my own group) created modern day Iranian identity, Afghans, Pashtuns, Tajiks have their martial invasions of South Asia. We can go on and on but that does not change the fact that we are all warrior ethnicites belonging to one warrior race called Iranian.

No, Iranic people only existed after the IE migrations occurred. Just because they are called Iranian farmers doesn't mean they're Iranic.

Buddy give up already.

Look how close autosomal DNA of modern day Iranics is to chalco lithic or neolithic Iranians. This age old myth of Iranians are from IE cline, their DNA got changed by greeks has been busted many times in published papers. We show massive genetic continuity. There is no denying that Persian, Kurd etc identities are IE originated but the major part of autosomal DNA of a modern day Iranian is close to his chalco lithic or neolithic ancestor.

 

[Hamza913]

Afghans, Pashtuns, Tajiks have their martial invasions of South Asia.

None of which were successful, only the ones led by Turks managed to succeed.

Look how close autosomal DNA of modern day Iranics is to chalco lithic or neolithic Iranians.

That doesn't mean they were Iranic. Iranics are Indo-Europeans, a group that did not exist back then.