The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China

[gambit]

I agree that there is no way that PLA can compare its battle experience with US force. They have not killed anyone in past quarter century, while US has engaged in countless wars/conflicts around the world, and may have eliminated half millions enemies.

Not 'countless'. You can find the list easily enough...

 

[Dungeness]

Not 'countless'. You can find the list easily enough...

Open or covert, you would never know how many operations there are, until someone leaks.

 

[Dungeness]

You do know the Navy SEALs weapon are Speciality, and each individual weapon are custom to their liking, you don't just pick up a government issue M4 and use it if you are a SF member.

They like to "recycle" their weapon because they know they are set and ready to go. If you care to read the reference you supplied you will see this paragraph



The problem is that those weapon have customized barrel, customized handguard, the bolt are retracted and the ACOG are always zeroed. It's not about how much money you put in it, but how much work.

They are asking to keep their weapon if they are not active. Which would be a big ask, well, they wish. Even each M4 does not cost the government anymore than $1200. And never try to mess up SF weapon, you will be out there doing 3 hours airborne shuffle.

Another reason why they don't have enough "weapon" and "ammunition" to go around is basically they use them all in battle, and also the SOCOM community have expanded 200% over the last 10 years, and they are still getting the same budget over and over.

And finally, always spell with Capital SEAL and small s, otherwise you mean this

View attachment 297523

Yap, the budget has been stretched, so it maybe high time to reduce this useless FONOPS?

To be honest, I never know what is the point of this high profile FON in SCS. It seems to me if USA is not ready for an all out war with China, what the Navy is doing is just like swimming against incoming tide. US could send reconnaissance planes to China's air space at will in 60s-70s; and US Navy could do FONOPS anytime they wanted in Yellow Sea and Taiwan Strait in 80s-90s. All are history now, and the FON in SCS will meet the same fate. What China needs to do is just doing what they have been doing, and the time is on their side. After all, it is their backyard.

 

[Dungeness]

Hmm, I'm kind of suspicious of this whole ordeal... Why US choose to confront China in SCS now when it's already too late? US did help China expel the Japanese from the mainland back then. Also remember the financial crisis right after Beijing olympics in 2008? I doubt China would be where she's at right now, if billions weren't forced to save and buy cheap stuff from China as a result of a bad global economy (thnx to the financial crisis caused directly by the US).

I'm thinking US is heavily invested in China. Chinese economy goes up USA investors win. The only way to continue to prop up Chinese economy is destroy those around it, namely the countries involved in the TPP... What you think? Is USA move concerning SCS backed by USA investors and hence colluding with Chinese government?

Seems to me like what is happening in the SCS is something like a wrestling match, where the players throw fake punches and slams just to wow the spectators... (the fake punches would be the warships / SAMs / carrier groups / China's next response to the carrier groups, where each player takes turn screaming into the TV camera and news channel about how the other side wants hegemony over the area, while they both belong to the same organization that profits from a strong China...)

At the end of the day USA had historically helped China more than it had hurt. Can't say the same for Japan...

As to what USA would gain if China controlled the entire SCS. It's hard for me to say at this point, but USA is kind of being overtaken by non-Whites as we speak. The future looks kind of bleak in US where the elites must live behind the safety of walled communities. Perhaps they want to make China their future home...

In the past USA had favored Japan d/t its technological advancement. Then, they realized they could do so much more with China. And USA also knows China is benign, not bent on world conquest, which is why China is currently USA's main interest.

I'm saying all of this b/c there is an element of conspiracy in all of this SCS affair. At the end of the day Chinese workers become more productive if they have something to feel nationalistic about. And there can be no glory for the light light w/o the dark, which is why US is there in the SCS to stage the "dark element" to benefit the overall scheme...

(Btw, I think it was clear b4 USA even made its 1st FONP that the end game is to let China win. The win can only be glorious if there is a losing side. Eventually, USA will back out of the SCS to give the Chinese [economy] an ego boost. But before that the [fake] show/wrestling match will only get more intense to attract the widest audience possible!)

Funny, I had the same feeling.

In the other post, I said that current situation in SCS is a win-win-win scenario for all parties involved:

USA gets to flash its muscle, and show to the world who the Boss is;
Vietnam and Philippines get the much needed hug from Uncle Sam;
China gets the excuse to build even more islands to protect itself

So everyone involved gets what he needs. Everyone is happy.

 

[Daniel808]

Only 19% of Vietnamese have favorable views about China:

Nice Pictures.

I don't know, If more than Half of Philippines people have a Positive view about China Influence (54%)

Majority People, Especially in Asia, Latin American, Africa, and Eastern Europe have Positive view about China Influence.
and the Trend is Keep Rising today from Several years ago

 

[jhungary]

Yap, the budget has been stretched, so it maybe high time to reduce this useless FONOPS?

To be honest, I never know what is the point of this high profile FON in SCS. It seems to me if USA is not ready for an all out war with China, what the Navy is doing is just like swimming against incoming tide. US could send reconnaissance planes to China's air space at will in 60s-70s; and US Navy could do FONOPS anytime they wanted in Yellow Sea and Taiwan Strait in 80s-90s. All are history now, and the FON in SCS will meet the same fate. What China needs to do is just doing what they have been doing, and the time is on their side. After all, it is their backyard.

I never said the budget is stretched. In fact, at 597 billions, we have the biggest peacetime budget that we ever have during the last 100 years. Remember, we only had 618 Billions when we are fighting 2 wars in the middle east. The fact is that now we have 597 billions with no war. Unless you can fight 2 war with 20 billions a years, you are having an increase, not stretching it.

What you said before is misleading, the SEALs have no enough rifle to go around because all their weapon are customerized and they have expanded 200% since 10 years ago. While they still have the same TO&E, it's maths really, you had 10 men and 10 rifles 10 years ago, now you have 20 mens yet you still have 10 rifle now, you will naturally need to reuse the weapon. As I said, SF weapon is not just a normal weapon, you cannot just get a standard M4 and go to battle with.

And you seems to forget, SCS and asia is also US backyard, US have territories in West Pacific too, all US need to do is to do what they are doing now, you can think all you want, but if you think US is not ready for everything, well....Maybe you should really think like that.

 

[gambit]

It seems to me if USA is not ready for an all out war with China,...

Is China ready for an 'all out' war against US ?

We do not need to land on mainland China to make the SCS empty of Chinese military presence. If China want a fight, the PLA is useless. This will be navy vs navy. The DF-21D is not going to help. We can sink enough Chinese ships that it will make China abandon those fake islands.

 

[hirobo2]

Nice Pictures.

I don't know, If more than Half of Philippines people have a Positive view about China Influence (54%)

Majority People, Especially in Asia, Latin American, Africa, and Eastern Europe have Positive view about China Influence.
and the Trend is Keep Rising today from Several years ago

View attachment 297652

Quite surprised myself Philippines is overall positive. Well, what can I say, everyone wants to hug the big Panda...

 

[Dungeness]

Is China ready for an 'all out' war against US ?

We do not need to land on mainland China to make the SCS empty of Chinese military presence. If China want a fight, the PLA is useless. This will be navy vs navy. The DF-21D is not going to help. We can sink enough Chinese ships that it will make China abandon those fake islands.

I do not think either side wants to fight, and I have been saying no a single shot will be fired in SCS. Come on, don't sound like an amateur military fanboy, it reduces your credibility as a "professional".

I never said the budget is stretched. In fact, at 597 billions, we have the biggest peacetime budget that we ever have during the last 100 years. Remember, we only had 618 Billions when we are fighting 2 wars in the middle east. The fact is that now we have 597 billions with no war. Unless you can fight 2 war with 20 billions a years, you are having an increase, not stretching it.

What you said before is misleading, the SEALs have no enough rifle to go around because all their weapon are customerized and they have expanded 200% since 10 years ago. While they still have the same TO&E, it's maths really, you had 10 men and 10 rifles 10 years ago, now you have 20 mens yet you still have 10 rifle now, you will naturally need to reuse the weapon. As I said, SF weapon is not just a normal weapon, you cannot just get a standard M4 and go to battle with.

And you seems to forget, SCS and asia is also US backyard, US have territories in West Pacific too, all US need to do is to do what they are doing now, you can think all you want, but if you think US is not ready for everything, well....Maybe you should really think like that.

China did not come up with the idea of building those islands at a moment of heat. They have been contemplating for the last quarter century. Hawkish talk will not help the situation, and I do not believe it is in the best interest of USA to fight a war with China in SCS for those rocks or for the benefit of Vietnam and Philippines. In the SCS, the National Interest for the US is the freedom of Navigation, which I believe China will not hesitate to ensure to US.

 

[gambit]

I do not think either side wants to fight, and I have been saying no a single shot will be fired in SCS. Come on, don't sound like an amateur military fanboy, it reduces your credibility as a "professional".

You are telling me that and YOU asked if we are ready for an 'all out' war against China ?

I do not care one whit what you guys think of me. This is a military oriented forum, so when it comes to military related issues, particularly in the technical front, I have contributed far more than all of you combined. Together with the other Americans who are veterans on this forum, why should any of us care for you guys' opinions of us ? Did you chastised thermonuclear Marty for being an 'amateur military fanboy' every time he used the word 'thermonuclear' just to sound like he know what he is talking about ? Of course not. He is a fellow Chinese and all of you must stick together.

Look at your own before you criticize us.

 

[Daniel808]

Quite surprised myself Philippines is overall positive. Well, what can I say, everyone wants to hug the big Panda...

Yes, that Shocked me too.
And also for Malaysia, Almost 80% of Malaysian People have Positive view for China Influence.
That's very Huge !

 

[gambit]

China did not come up with the idea of building those islands at a moment of heat. They have been contemplating for the last quarter century.

Fine...So China have been planning the takeover of the SCS for a while.

Hawkish talk will not help the situation,...

So you think China is in the right to claim the entirety of the SCS as territorial waters ?

 

[jhungary]

China did not come up with the idea of building those islands at a moment of heat. They have been contemplating for the last quarter century. Hawkish talk will not help the situation, and I do not believe it is in the best interest of USA to fight a war with China in SCS for those rocks or for the benefit of Vietnam and Philippines. In the SCS, the National Interest for the US is the freedom of Navigation, which I believe China will not hesitate to ensure to US.

It's not about hawkish or not, it's about learning the fact and truth about something.

I don't ever think US want to go to war with China, but that does not mean they should not be prepare for it.

The question is, the US never claim the SCS as their own, it was the Chinese. And to say "China will not hesitate to ensure US FON" is laughable. How about US will ensure China FON in Pacific Ocean? And we started to claim the whole pacific ocean 60,000km around Hawai'i were US territorial water? What would China think by then??

You can build whatever you want in SCS, so does Vietnam, so does Philippine, so does Taiwan and so does Malaysia. The problem is, it matter nothing if no one think this is your at the get go. Why would US "Wanted" the Chinese to ensure their FON in SCS when US believe SCS belong to no one in the first place?

On the other hand, while you keep asking would US be willing to start a war with China for Philippine and Vietnam, ask yourselves this, would China willing to start a war with US over these island? US does not care about anything, they start war in the middle east just the say "they can" would China do it is another problem.

Kids, I fought in Iraq and I fought in Afghanistan, would I want to go back there and kills again? No, But if I was asked, would I go back? That's is not even a question to begin with. But would you drop everything and go back to China and start killing people when you are told?

Also, you may not think about this before, it is quite unwise to antagonize the US, even US withdraw completely form SCS, they still hold every other ocean in this world which the PLAN have NO REACH AT ALL, think about it, even if China have free control in SCS, but US shut down the tap from Malacca Strait, the Japanese Sea and the Indian Ocean, all the way to Hawai'i. What China can do about it beside sitting with their thumb up their arse?? So would this what you want for China?

 

[Dungeness]

Fine...So China have been planning the takeover of the SCS for a while.


So you think China is in the right to claim the entirety of the SCS as territorial waters ?

Here is your problem that you get really angry before you figure out what China's claim is. China has never claimed the entire SCS as its territorial waters, it just inherited the claim from ROC that considered all islands and reefs within the dash line as their assets. The "dash line" merely means "undefined".

Yes, China has been considering expending the reefs they were on for a while but they did not do anything until Vietnamese started their reclamation on some of those 49 posts they are now occupying.

It's not about hawkish or not, it's about learning the fact and truth about something.

I don't ever think US want to go to war with China, but that does not mean they should not be prepare for it.

The question is, the US never claim the SCS as their own, it was the Chinese. And to say "China will not hesitate to ensure US FON" is laughable. How about US will ensure China FON in Pacific Ocean? And we started to claim the whole pacific ocean 60,000km around Hawai'i were US territorial water? What would China think by then??

You can build whatever you want in SCS, so does Vietnam, so does Philippine, so does Taiwan and so does Malaysia. The problem is, it matter nothing if no one think this is your at the get go. Why would US "Wanted" the Chinese to ensure their FON in SCS when US believe SCS belong to no one in the first place?

On the other hand, while you keep asking would US be willing to start a war with China for Philippine and Vietnam, ask yourselves this, would China willing to start a war with US over these island? US does not care about anything, they start war in the middle east just the say "they can" would China do it is another problem.

Kids, I fought in Iraq and I fought in Afghanistan, would I want to go back there and kills again? No, But if I was asked, would I go back? That's is not even a question to begin with. But would you drop everything and go back to China and start killing people when you are told?

Also, you may not think about this before, it is quite unwise to antagonize the US, even US withdraw completely form SCS, they still hold every other ocean in this world which the PLAN have NO REACH AT ALL, think about it, even if China have free control in SCS, but US shut down the tap from Malacca Strait, the Japanese Sea and the Indian Ocean, all the way to Hawai'i. What China can do about it beside sitting with their thumb up their arse?? So would this what you want for China?

See, you are making the same mistake. China doesn't claim the entire SCS as their territorial waters. If what US wants is not "Innocent Pass" in SCS, what exactly US wants from China, what the fuss is all about?

I have been telling you I do not think there will be even a single shot fired in SCS, why you keep telling me you are willing to fight? There is no point. US would not even engage NK or Iran, why they want to fight with China now?

China is not interested being a police in he world. So your last paragraph is not relevant.

You are telling me that and YOU asked if we are ready for an 'all out' war against China ?

I do not care one whit what you guys think of me. This is a military oriented forum, so when it comes to military related issues, particularly in the technical front, I have contributed far more than all of you combined. Together with the other Americans who are veterans on this forum, why should any of us care for you guys' opinions of us ? Did you chastised thermonuclear Marty for being an 'amateur military fanboy' every time he used the word 'thermonuclear' just to sound like he know what he is talking about ? Of course not. He is a fellow Chinese and all of you must stick together.

Look at your own before you criticize us.

I have been reading your posts, and some of them of high quality and I personally benefit a lot, which gave me an impression that we can expect higher quality posts from a "professional" like you. Well, I guess everyone has a fanboy inside of him.

 

[Tiqiu]

US would not even engage NK or Iran, why they want to fight with China now?

LOL. So far the US responses for these were no response.


'Israel must be wiped out': Iran launches two missiles with threat written on them in Hebrew as the country ignores criticism of its ballistic weapon tests

• Ballistic missiles were test-fired in Iran's eastern Alborz mountain range
• Claims that the words 'Israel must be wiped out' were written on the side
• Launches took place while US Vice President Joe Biden was visiting Israel
• See more news from Iran at www.dailymail.co.uk/iran

By Julian Robinson for MailOnline and Associated Press

Published: 21:01 EST, 9 March 2016 | Updated: 04:00 EST, 10 March 2016

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