The two hindu girls who were allegedly forced to convert are flirting with their husbands.

[Chhatrapati]

These girls never met these boys before, then how could they be involved in love with each other?

You never heard of love at first site. These guys are 30 yo eye candies for them 14 - 16 girls. No wonder they fall in love.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Regardless of age, if one person feels enough adult to be ready for marriage, then it is halaal provided they consent to the marriage in their own wills.

Parents cannot force them not to marry. The only argument can be made is they are under 18. But that has no bearing in Islam.

As per Pakistani Constitution, no law can be made which is against the Quran and Sunnah.

Age of consent in Islam is puberty, therefore there is a discrepancy in the law.

If the society states 18 is the age for marriage, then appropriate to exceptions should be made for those children who come from abusive homes, escape family to embrace Islam, or cannot afford to be taken care of by parents.

It is not fair to limit a woman’s options. Now I hope everyone sees the hikmat in Islamic fish to make marriage easier and not more difficult for youth.

Did Orya also talk about under age marriage of the girls to be against the Law and Liberals being totally correct on this Issue?

Did Orya also talk about punishing the Molvi who married them?

Did Orya asked the question if these girls did all this willingly, why then Pakistani Police have to search for them and these pairs are not appearing themselves if they have done nothing wrong?

If Orya has not asked these questions, then Orya is himself totally wrong in this issue. Liberals seem to be asking the very valid questions.

In Islam, State has all the power to make the public laws according to the situation and they overrule the default rules of Sharia.

For example, the age of girl should be 18 years to marry in State of Pakistan. Now the Molvies are not allowed to go against this Pakistan law by blaming it to be against Islam. No, it is according to Islam that State has the power to make laws according to time and situation.

Age of consent for liberals should be 35 because a woman should be allowed to enjoy her life, explore multiple relationships, and gain two PhDs before she is permitted to marry.

Liberal male defenders can wait while all their peers marry and move on with their life, cursing their lot in life.

This should only apply to liberals. @Wa Muhammada @Yaseen1 @OsmanAli98

 

[HAIDER]

koi masla haal howa ... ka abhi chal raha haa?

If the girls were 14 and 16 (although they both look 18 to me), what were the ages of their husbands/boyfriends at the time of snapping the photos?

@xyxmt

Those who know Sindhi culture , they know its not religious thing. It's the feudal culture of Sindh....where woman worth is less then a 1 pisa...

 

[Pakistani E]

Minorities tend to convert, as can be seen with cases of some Muslim in India.

Conversion happens both ways. It's just that people tend not to publicize it in Pakistan for fear of being lynched for becoming an "apostate".

Well to be honest if something like this happens as a "love" marriage then I imagine the best way to get support for the couple is to actually take the backing of clerics. It provides a sense of protection for the couple as now they have significant support and can't be separated. I'm not saying that's what has exactly happened but it's one reason that the couples may turn to clerics.

That's not a good comparison but I understand why you made it. That would bring issues forward such apostasy etc... so it's not exactly the same thing for a Muslim. Even if the apostate girl wasn't abducted in that situation, I would still return her to her family so she may not fall down a path which could lead to an eternity in hellfire.

If these girls are actually hindu still and have been abducted and forced etc... Then I fully support a very harsh punishment for the people who've abducted. But right now, things seem to be murky and confusing.

You, like other posters here, are taking this case in its isolation. Whilst the questions I have asked remain. I have a large extended landowning family in Interior Sindh. I know what's been happening with poor Hindu haris for generations. This isn't the first time Hindu girls have disappeared and come out as Muslim after being married to a Muslim guy, with local clerics muscling out any protests. But let's see if this new government is actually serious about protecting minorities, or just like the previous ones, it's all hot air.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Conversion happens both ways. It's just that people tend not to publicize it in Pakistan for being of being lynched for becoming an "apostate".



You, like other posters here, are taking this case in its isolation. Whilst the questions I have asked remain. I have a large extended landowning family in Interior Sindh. I know what's been happening with poor Hindu haris for generations. This isn't the first time Hindu girls have disappeared and come out as Muslim after being married to a Muslim guy, with local clerics muscling out any protests. But let's see if this new government is actually serious about protecting minorities, or just like the previous ones, it's all hot air.

We live in Pakistan, which is Islamic. No law can be made against Quran and Sunnah.

It's not a Hindu Rashtra or Ahmadiyya state.

Where are you getting secret knowledge of forced conversion?

You are discounting the statement of the girls.

 

[Pakistani E]

We live in Pakistan, which is Islamic. No law can be made against Quran and Sunnah.

It's not a Hindu Rashtra or Ahmadiyya state.

Where are you getting secret knowledge of forced conversion?

You are discounting the statement of the girls.

I have never stated that it is a Hindu or Ahmadi state. Even under Islam, forced conversions are not allowed. If the family is saying something, then it is worth investigating, no? If there is historical precedence of this happening, then it is worth investigating?

Or no, because some third grade former bureaucrat/media personality said it's a liberal conspiracy?

Secondly, forced conversions of Hindu girls in Interior Sindh is no secret. Anyone with half a brain cell and living in Sindh, knows its been happening for a while. Maybe you should try googling "forced conversions of Hindu girls in Sindh" for some more knowledge on this topic.

Statements of minors does not discount anything. They are children.

 

[Numerous]

You, like other posters here, are taking this case in its isolation. Whilst the questions I have asked remain. I have a large extended landowning family in Interior Sindh. I know what's been happening with poor Hindu haris for generations. This isn't the first time Hindu girls have disappeared and come out as Muslim after being married to a Muslim guy, with local clerics muscling out any protests. But let's see if this new government is actually serious about protecting minorities, or just like the previous ones, it's all hot air.

I'm not, I was just replying to your post and to the example that you gave.

 

[Yankee-stani]

As per Pakistani Constitution, no law can be made which is against the Quran and Sunnah.

Age of consent in Islam is puberty, therefore there is a discrepancy in the law.

If the society states 18 is the age for marriage, then appropriate to exceptions should be made for those children who come from abusive homes, escape family to embrace Islam, or cannot afford to be taken care of by parents.

It is not fair to limit a woman’s options. Now I hope everyone sees the hikmat in Islamic fish to make marriage easier and not more difficult for youth.



Age of consent for liberals should be 35 because a woman should be allowed to enjoy her life, explore multiple relationships, and gain two PhDs before she is permitted to marry.

Liberal male defenders can wait while all their peers marry and move on with their life, cursing their lot in life.

This should only apply to liberals. @Wa Muhammada @Yaseen1 @OsmanAli98

First off the case is fishy anyways and per this was caused by the Indian press I dont buy the ballocks of the crap they peddle tho I do think our society puts too much pressure to get married quick which is annoying but I also dont like the liberal NGO crap infecting our society we must emphasis on moderate population control not extreme like the PRC or Vietnam have done we dont want millions of men with very few women around lol also on getting an education not just college but technical skills as well so low class can climb to middle class quick

 

[niaz]

Arguably I belong to the liberal brigade so maligned by the followers of the militant Islam. Orya Maqbool Jan, on the other hand, is the face of the militant Islam that the bigot Zia imposed on Pakistan. Here is a thought-provoking article by IA Rehman published in the Dawn. Whether you agree with Mr. Rehman's or not, one thing cannot be denied that Pakistan society is polarised with the hardcore self-righteous militancy & intolerance choking off the difference of opinion and open-mindedness.

The seeds of intolerance
I.A. RehmanUpdated March 28, 2019

I.A. Rehman

THE wave of intolerance sweeping across Pakistan is posing a more serious threat to the country’s most vital interests and the people’s mental equilibrium than any other problem, including the threat of external aggression.

Let us take a look at some recent incidents of intolerance.

A student killed Prof Khalid Hameed, head of the English department at a Bahawalpur college, because he thought that a mixed gathering of male and female students that was planned to welcome newly enrolled students was un-Islamic. This is a new excuse for taking the life of a fellow Muslim, and a teacher at that.

Two Ahmadi doctors were abducted and murdered and their bodies stuffed inside a canal head. The level of brutality against Ahmadi doctors even in personal quarrels has risen considerably.

The campaign of vilification launched by the pious and patriotic men of the country against the audacity of the women who joined the Aurat March on International Women’s Day continues to become more and more vicious. The prominent targets of male venom include some of the organisers of the event in different cities.

From where does the vigilante brigade derive its sanction to enforce its morality code?

Two minor girls belonging to the Hindu community of Ghotki in Sindh were apparently abducted, converted to Islam and married off to Muslim men.

What makes these manifestations of intolerance more ominous than they are generally believed to be is that the objects of unmitigated violence are women and minority communities that deserve extra protection in view of their known vulnerability. Besides, the government has not taken due notice of the threats to the lives and peace of mind of innocent citizens. It has not bothered to denounce the foul murders nor has it shown concern at vigilante violence except for the last-mentioned incident, which has propelled the prime minister into action against the culprits.

It would be idle and dangerous to pretend that the latest surge in intolerance is the work of some overexcited individuals or groups whereas it is rooted in the state’s failure to precisely define the place of belief in politics and governance. The problem has confronted successive governments and none has attempted a complete or long-term remedy.

Take the case of the alleged forced conversion of two minor Hindu girls — a horrible crime that is un-Islamic too. One should like to see how far the government will go. The existence of centres in certain parts of Sindh that specialise in abduction-conversion-marriage procedures is no secret. These centres have flourished under the patronage of feudal politicians who have been courted and pampered by the country’s major political parties. If the government does not proceed against these conversion centres, it will be guilty of abetment.

Quite a few issues relating to forced conversion need to be earnestly examined and resolved. The women in our subcontinent have been led to believe that victims of forced marriages won’t be accepted by their parents/siblings and they must resign themselves to their fate. Some of them are afraid of being killed if restored to parental custody. The courts usually do not allow the victims to meet their parents/siblings. Being sent to a shelter for some days to enable them to make up their minds does not seem to have worked.

The questions regarding the marriage of underage girls and the age at which a girl’s conversion can be deemed valid need to be settled beyond any doubt. The government should support the new bills on child marriage and forced conversions, especially the former that should be easy to enforce. Measures to prevent forced conversions also demand properly thought-out policies and guidelines for the law-enforcing and judicial authorities.

The murder of Prof Khalid Hameed, the abduction and killing of the Ahmadi doctors, and the frenzy of attacks on women activists denote a new high in vigilante activity, an assertion of the self-acquired right by any Muslim to question a fellow Muslim about his performance of religious rituals.

C.M. Naeem, who has been a distinguished teacher at the Chicago University for over four decades, could not believe his ears when for the first time in his long career he was queried by two of his students about missing his prayers. The killer of the Bahawalpur teacher and the instigators of violence against the organisers of the Aurat March are the advanced models of the Chicago vigilantes.

But from where does the vigilante brigade derive its sanction to enforce its morality code? For an answer, one has to go far back in the past to the point when Pakistan decided to become an Islamic state without working out a mechanism for interpreting Islam and left the various schools of thought free to interpret the state religion in different ways. Ijtehad was sacrificed at the altar of traditionalism. Came Gen Zia and overruled Allama Iqbal’s 1930 call to defreeze Islamic fiqh that had been frozen for 500 years and to free it of the stamp of Arab imperialism.

Pakistan is now governed under the Zia constitution of 1985. The conservative traditionalists are determined to defend Zia’s version of state-enforced belief as the original and real Islam. Further, some people seem to have joined the hisba force Gen Zia had proposed for enforcing moral discipline, a move that was foiled by the judiciary.

The members of the private hisba force derive strength from the interpretation of religion by militant extremists, especially their view that jihad can be carried out by individual Muslims, and their complete reliance on the theory of takfir, which means that a good Muslim has a right and a duty to behead a person who claims to be a Muslim but does not qualify as such by the former’s standard.

Hitherto the state has gone along with the interpretation of Islam by traditionalists and militants. If it wishes to break out of its self-acquired shackles it must encourage intra-religion discourse and define the role of belief in matters that are apparently outside its jurisdiction.

Published in Dawn, March 28th, 2019

https://www.dawn.com/news/1472368/the-seeds-of-intolerance

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Why malign Orya Maqbool Jan? he was simply a messenger. He is in the good books of PTI and also he is a not a militant but a well connected nationalist.

Ask the girls why they rejected the liberal brigade and Indian allegations that they were kidnapped and forcibly converted.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Why malign Orya Maqbool Jan? he was simply a messenger. He is in the good books of PTI and also he is a not a militant but a well connected nationalist.

Ask the girls why they rejected the liberal brigade and Indian allegations that they were kidnapped and forcibly converted.

Its easy to blame random people sadly in our country

 

[Psychic]

Ask the girls why they rejected the liberal brigade and Indian allegations that they were kidnapped and forcibly converted.

Hindu males also convert but the liberal propaganda machine stays silent on male conversions. They are always propagating the narrative of our enemies just to make themselves look good in the eyes of those who will never accept them as their own no matter how hard they try to appease.

Interesting episode, exposing their propaganda. Please note that not all converts are those "poor Sindhi haris" but girls from rich business families as well.

 

[Rasengan]

Those boys need to be punished and the girls need a good slap in the face. They are minors thus have no right under Pakistani law to marry at that age. Those who defend this are sick, this is why pedophilia is so prevalent in Pakistan. You don't need to marry to convert to Islam.

 

[Numerous]

Those boys need to be punished and the girls need a good slap in the face. They are minors thus have no right under Pakistani law to marry at that age. Those who defend this are sick, this is why pedophilia is so prevalent in Pakistan. You don't need to marry to convert to Islam.

You speak like a gora.

 

[Rasengan]

You speak like a gora.

I don't give a damn what you think. You do know white people can also be Muslim's or does that thick skull of your's that lives in Britain fails to understand such a simple concept.