The Turks of Southern Azerbaijan

[Nurhak40]

hahahaahhaah

 

[Buğra]

this entire thread is "Turkish wet dreams of annexing Iranian land"

perhaps turks have never heard of the term "if you live in a glass house don't throw stones"

azeri's in Iran are extremely loyal Iranians. The same simply cannot be said of Kurdish people living in turkey.

if you start disrespecting Iranian sovereignty it would be like throwing stones at a concrete house while living in a glass house yourself.

not only would you fail miserably. but Iran will make sure to turn your Kurdish areas into not only "no go zones" for turks. but turks would be afraid to even look east at the general direction of kurds…… be very careful..

Iran respects Turkish sovereignty. I highly suggest you do the same.


last time ottoman troops were in "southern Azerbaijan" (Tabriz)

These were the times long before the spread of modern nationalism. After the weakening of religious bonds and rise of nationalism, Anatolian Turks and Azerbaijani Turks became extremely close like a 'one nation'. Iranian Turks also began to getting closer to both Turkey and Azerbaijan especially after the collapse of the soviet union and the emergence of the sovereign Republic of Azerbaijan. Turkey's soft powers such as its TV programs, printed publications, websites, etc. have accelerated the process in the last twenty years. Now, Iranian Turks see themselves as a part of Turkey-Azerbaijan and neither you nor I cannot change this fact. Turkey does not need to do anything, this is just what it is. This is also true for half of the Kurdish population in Turkey. They see Kurds in other countries more closer to them than Turks. But, we are luckier than you guys because their fellow Kurds are not strong. Actually, Kurds in Turkey are both demographically and economically better than them. So other half of Kurds see independence as a really hard thing to accomplish and do not fight for it. If Turkey continues to develop it can also suppress the pro-independence Kurds, at least most of them. However, this is not true for Iran. Turkey and Azerbaijan together are stronger than Iran economically, demographically, and militarily. Thus, it is really hard for Iran to suppress independence ideas among Iranian Turks. Again, Turkey or Azerbaijan states do not need to do anything for this and they are currently not doing it. I hope we can solve this in a peaceful way between Persians and Turks. We manage to keep the peace between us for a long time and we both benefit from this. Maybe Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Iran get further closer to each other in the future like for example France and Germany(no visa requirements, common market, etc.) so independence ideas become meaningless.

 

[Buğra]

You can’t bark for independent Turkish state in Iran while you have the Kurds and Armenians if I was in your shoes I wouldn’t bark and start a fire in my neighbors houses because it will burn my house too

Did you really read the post? Because that is exactly what i am saying. but even if things go wrong, I am sure turkey will do just fine like it always does. after all, Iraq and Syria did burn recently while turkey remains a strong regional power. also, there are two things that you need to consider while evaluating the situation. first, there are 100 million Oghuz Turks who live in the immediate region while there are only 45 million Persians and also Turks have better economic and military resources which affect the balance of power. second, many national movements have fought against turkey for their independence in the last 2 centuries but none of them could succeed without the super power's direct intervention such as Russian, British, french empires. thus, PKK has no chance against turkey as long as the superpowers do not directly intervene in the conflict and I don't think they will, considering the turkey's nato membership, geostrategic location and the risk of bigger war like ww3 which no one wants. however, although Turks have the upper hand in this I still think that we shouldn't risk anything and try to build something like Germany and France did.

 

[cabatli_53]

 

[cabatli_53]

A Turkish nationalistic football team in Iran! In the last 10-15 years, Tractor Sazi FC has become a channel of Iranian Azeri Turks nationalism and an important subculture in its own right. Iranian authorities have so far been reluctant to ban mass gatherings of football fans – due to the immense popularity of this sport in Iran. Therefore, nationalistically-minded Iranian Azeris (as well as representatives of Iran's other ethnic minorities, for instance Khozestani Arabs) have considered Tractor’s matches an occasion to express their growing frustration with what they perceive as state injustice against their ethnic community. Over time, Tractor’s fans, self-identifying as “red wolves” with reference to the totemic animal of the Turkic peoples, have come to routinely use Turkish and Azerbaijani flags, symbols, and chants during the matches and on other occasions.

Naturally, Iran’s security services are concerned by this development. According to Iranian Azeri sources both in the region and in the diaspora communities, the security services have in recent years successfully infiltrated the ranks of Tractor Sazi’s hardcore fans, keeping a watchful eye on their activities. Yet due to the movement’s massive character, only large scale arrests could decisively change the makeup of the football club’s hardcore fans, an option that Tehran has so far avoided. However, tensions have risen considerably between the Iranian Azeri supporters of the legendary Tebriz club and the predominantly Persian supporters of major clubs from Tehran and Isfahan. During the matches, racist insults are common. Instances of physical clashes between Azeri and Persian supporters have also been on the rise, with authorities outside the Azeri provinces usually backing the Persian fans. Tractor Sazi fans have even acquired a reputation across Iran as fighters who travel with their club to specifically engage in clashes with the competition. Iranian authorities have frequently accused Tractor’s fans of separatism and other “deviations,” with dozens of fans subjected to interrogation and hundreds to surveillance.

For more info!
https://www.cacianalyst.org/publica...-football-nationalism-among-irans-azeris.html

 

[Saithan]

hm... so they were told the rival team's game had ended in a draw which would make them champions, and Traktör decided let go off the game. Without getting those information double checked.

Uh... sounds so familiar, like how some among us celebrates victories before seeing the corpse of our enemies.

 

[Deactivated]

that why I am fighting these Persian lies in the AZ thread and in their section...I'm telling people, that Iran is pushing the assimilation of Turks in Iran, that they are backing Armenians against Turks because they fear Turks in their own country... I think - a lot of users in this forum don't know much about these issues

 

[Shawnee]

Back in the day we had a user named @ir_tab or something like that from Tabriz who was a Tractor fan and knew all different Turkish dialects. Some Turkish members banked on him a lot but he adhered to Iran completely.

It was to the point that @-SINAN- called him a dog (not a wolf).

@BordoEnes @cabatli_53
You should remember well the conversations with @irtab and how patriotic he was.

Many of the current users are Azerbaijani or partly Azeri (including me) and we have no wolfish thoughts.

Finally as I have mentioned before:
We are not enemies despite these trolling. Your enemy is somewhere else.

Adios.

 

[Deactivated]

Back in the day we had a user named @ir_tab or something like that from Tabriz who was a Tractor fan and knew all different Turkish dialects. Some Turkish members banked on him a lot but he adhered to Iran completely.

It was to the point that @-SINAN- called him a dog (not a wolf).

@BordoEnes @cabatli_53
You should remember well the conversations with @irtab and how patriotic he was.

Many of the current users are Azerbaijani or partly Azeri (including me) and we have no wolfish thoughts.

Finally as I have mentioned before:
We are not enemies despite these trolling. Your enemy is somewhere else.

Adios.

why you always come here for your propaganda - you are not from our blood false flagger - "US/UK" talking about being "Irani" in Irani section, now you became Azeri... man what is wrong with you trolls.. yesterday we had a lot of trouble because of you guys infiltrating this section like typical Irani snakes... now get off - stop talking shit! NO AZERI EVER WILL CONSIDER HIMSELF AS AN IRANI TOY! Mark my words... all you do is trying to assimilate Turks with Irani women for 100 yrs now ... but you cant mute us...

"adios"

 

[Armchair]

The US and Israel have a war on Iran coming just as the ones for Iraq. This is a prime opportunity for Azeris to seek independence, just as the Kurds of Norther Iraq did. But wait for the US to bomb Iran to the stone age first.

 

[Deactivated]

The US and Israel have a war on Iran coming just as the ones for Iraq. This is a prime opportunity for Azeris to seek independence, just as the Kurds of Norther Iraq did. But wait for the US to bomb Iran to the stone age first.

yes... that will happen my friend... be sure - the day will come, and the mullah regime knows that very well...

 

[Armchair]

yes... that will happen my friend... be sure - the day will come, and the mullah regime knows that very well...

Lets prepare for that day then, because all too often, countries like Turkey and Pakistan do not think long term enough to effectively take advantage of geopolitics.

 

[Deactivated]

Lets prepare for that day then, because all too often, countries like Turkey and Pakistan do not think long term enough to effectively take advantage of geopolitics.

I think it will be as always - turkey will oversleep the right moment, like during the collapse of the USSR - Iraq war (we could have taken the north) and Cyprus (occupy the whole island)

and 20 years later, we will cry again and search for guilty people... as we have for 100 years

 

[Armchair]

I think it will be as always - turkey will oversleep the right moment, like during the collapse of the USSR - Iraq war (we could have taken the north) and Cyprus (occupy the whole island)

and 20 years later, we will cry again and search for guilty people... as we have for 100 years

And that is the single biggest reason why Turkey stopped being a great power, and became a pawn in the chessboard till Erdogan came. But Erdogan is still not sure footed enough, aggressive enough, strategic enough, though million times better than the secularists.

 

[LittleFish]

These were the times long before the spread of modern nationalism. After the weakening of religious bonds and rise of nationalism, Anatolian Turks and Azerbaijani Turks became extremely close like a 'one nation'. Iranian Turks also began to getting closer to both Turkey and Azerbaijan especially after the collapse of the soviet union and the emergence of the sovereign Republic of Azerbaijan. Turkey's soft powers such as its TV programs, printed publications, websites, etc. have accelerated the process in the last twenty years. Now, Iranian Turks see themselves as a part of Turkey-Azerbaijan and neither you nor I cannot change this fact. Turkey does not need to do anything, this is just what it is. This is also true for half of the Kurdish population in Turkey. They see Kurds in other countries more closer to them than Turks. But, we are luckier than you guys because their fellow Kurds are not strong. Actually, Kurds in Turkey are both demographically and economically better than them. So other half of Kurds see independence as a really hard thing to accomplish and do not fight for it. If Turkey continues to develop it can also suppress the pro-independence Kurds, at least most of them. However, this is not true for Iran. Turkey and Azerbaijan together are stronger than Iran economically, demographically, and militarily. Thus, it is really hard for Iran to suppress independence ideas among Iranian Turks. Again, Turkey or Azerbaijan states do not need to do anything for this and they are currently not doing it. I hope we can solve this in a peaceful way between Persians and Turks. We manage to keep the peace between us for a long time and we both benefit from this. Maybe Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Iran get further closer to each other in the future like for example France and Germany(no visa requirements, common market, etc.) so independence ideas become meaningless.

I know it may not be proper to quote a comment made 1 year ago, but I think he got the point.

So called "South Azerbaijan" to Iran is just like Inner Mongolia District to China:
1.Majority of Azeris are in Iran --- Majority of Mongolians are in China.
2.Azerbaijan is split by Russia --- Mongolia is split by Russia.
3.Azeris in Azerbaijan Republic is Russified --- Mongolians in outer Mongolia is Russified
4.Azeris were loyal to the Safavid/Afshar/Qajar Empire --- Mongolians were loyal to Qing Empire(Manchu-Mongolia alliance, the Emperor must learn Mongolian language and take Mongolian women as concubines). Torghut Mongolian tribute made an costly exodus from Russian Empire and go back to China, since they thought it is their home and China would treat them well, and they won the bet. The remaining Torgults in Russia is now known as "Kalmykia".
5.Persian Culture is dominant in Iran historically and accepted by Azeris--- Chinese Culture is dominant in China historically and (partially) accepted by Mongolians.

But Inner Mongolians in China seldom has independence orientation because:
1.Economically, China is much more stronger and richer, which is the most important factor. You won't seek independence if independence worsen your life. Outer Mongolia is not some heaven, Xiongnu, Turks, Mongolians all tried their best to get out of that infertile lands, and Outer Mongolia quickly became a failed state after USSR broke apart. Inner Mongolia has much better climate and grasslands. China treats Mongolian minority very well, Erdos's GDP is even top in China.
This also applies to Korean Chinese. They'll never want to join North Korea. Some of them do prefer South Korea, but South Koreans look down upon them.
2.Golden Family (the descendants of Genghis Khan, like the concept of Sayyid in Islam) is in Inner Mongolia. Outer Mongolia only consists of some Khalkha tributes who were thought humble in tradition, Inner Mongolians look down upon them.
3.Outer Mongolians are Russified and are thought to be traitors by Inner Mongolians. Outer Mongolians lost many traditions due to Russification, i.e. Inner Mongolia still uses old-style Mongolians scripts while Outer uses Russian scripts.
4.Mongolians is a minority (1~2% of total population). Outer Mongolia got independence when China was weak as Osman Empire used to be. When China reunited, there would be no possibility for independence.

For Iran:
1. Economic problem. This is the most important, but not some unsolvable problem. Due to 40 years of US sanction, Iran's GDP per capita falls behind Turkey and Azerbaijan Republic. It is understandable for some Iranian Azeris to admire Turkey and Azerbaijan Republic --- we also admired Westernized Hong Kong decades before since we were poor then, and Hong Kong movies used to be dominating in Mainland China, but now we thought Hong Kong is just-so-so since Hong Kong is no more advanced compared with Shanghai/Beijing/Shenzhen. If one day Tabriz become richer than Baku and Istanbul, the problem will be solved naturally.
2. Cultural problem. Pan-turkism is stronger than Shia Commonwealth and Aryanism? I don't think so. Azeris were always the co-founder of Iran since Safavid Empire, and they will be as long as Iran keep Shia Islam and inclusive Aryanism.