The saga of an intrepid PAF pilot who humbled the Israelis

[qaisar52]

Dear all, Please also do not forget that like America, some Muslim Countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan Egypt they help us in different condition but also they have Put our country in dangerous situation like Extremism. Money and Heated Litterateurs is coming from Saudi Arabia sour side bomber are coming from Jordan and also they help the terrorist groups like Lashker e Jaghvi, Leshker e Teiba and Taliban to kill innocent peoples on the name of Islam as they were Shia. Thanks. Regards.

 

[x_man]

...it was easy for me to marry a Christian Girl than to marry a Shia girl and I being a muslim.

Very well said...

@shehbazi2001........

If you are considering to unite Muslim countries on the lines of EU, then I would suggest to consider your alternates.

Unfortunately, today’s Islam has so many versions and is divided into so many sects , that the very force ( Islam ) that was deemed to bring Muslims together , somehow has become its own enemy and has turned into a repelling force that will probably not let the Muslims to unite… ….

 

[shehbazi2001]

Murad Sahib.....ok I leave this topic of Ummah, this being last on the topic.

You are one of those veterans about whom I have been reading all my teenage. I cant argue with you. It will be possible only if u allow it yourself.

With all due respect, I would say that u r not alone in marrying christian girl. Some other fighter pilots of your era married foreign-nationality holders too. But still we are only concerned with your A7 performance, not other things.

Let me say some last words on this topic now.

The conquest of holy land of Jeruslam in 1187 was only possible when Salahuddin Ayubbi united the shia and sunni countries of Syria and Egypt.

We are divided mainly in shia and sunni only. Now read the following...

Northern Europe is Catholic, Southern Europe is Protestant and Russia is Orthodox. Still they are united.

we diverted from our main topic of runway destruction in dhaka in 1971 to ummah.

I would like to add that there was a AAA gunner who had long mostaches and had shot down IAF fighters over dhaka in 1971. After the surrender, he cut off his mostaches.The gunners and technicians were equally brave. Just one event to shake the souls.

Once a Sabre got off the runway during landing and ditched into grass. The indian aircrafts were flying overhead and the Sabre was as easy as a sitting duck.

A PAF technician and driver were sent to recover the aircraft by a tractor and bring it back to (perhaps) hangor. As they neared the Sabre, the indian fighter started turning around to take aim of that Sabre.

As the PAF team started pulling the Sabre with tractor, the Indian fighter had straightened itself and started to dive for a strafing run........

At that moment, the bengali driver ran away.......leaving the Sabre to the mercy of Indian fighter.....the pathan technician was not a driver....yet not fearing the death and trusting his God, he took the driver's seat....

As he started driving, the fighter pilot's finger was about to press the button, the cross-hair well over the Sabre, the technician started saying Kalma-Shadat.......Allah listened to his mujahid....suddenly the indian fighter turned into a fireball.....a gunner had done yet another miracle......

In an another scene, a formation of IAF Canberra bombers attacked the Tejgaon airbase.......everyone started shouting "Ya Allah ek gira, ya Allah ek gira"..........dua accepted....one bomber shot down by gunners.....


These were spirits of soldiers.

 

[vish]

The EU has been forrmed because culturally and economically it makes sense for the member countries to do so. Religion has nothing to do with it. Turkey's application is in the midst of doldrums largely because of the Cyprus issue. Please do not drag in religion everywhere.

 

[shehbazi2001]

European Union is great. I am impressed by them.
Vish.....To respond to your post, have a look at these sites,

Autocollants - Occidentalis

Cross Turkey off the Euro Map !

On the currency note of Euro, there is a map of Europe and in that map, Turkey. A movement is going on which urges people to CROSS that Turkey on all currency notes.

This is last on this topic of turkey. I dont want a prolonged and useless debate.

 

[blain2]

10 years at Sargodha, max I saw somebody in CCS was B-6....pilots did perform well in Air Superiority phase but it was the surface attack that brought them down in overall grades......perhaps too many mission / conduct failures or stringent ROEs.....

So the point or question is, are the student pilots really not performing as their predecessors did or have things become a lot more complex and demanding since the earlier times?

I don't think that PAF training has slipped but maybe the years of Zia (when schools and universities were all trashed) are catching up with us.

 

[fatman17]

So the point or question is, are the student pilots really not performing as their predecessors did or have things become a lot more complex and demanding since the earlier times?

I don't think that PAF training has slipped but maybe the years of Zia (when schools and universities were all trashed) are catching up with us.

Blain2,
there was a post some months ago on recruitment standards or qualifications to apply in the armed forces.
in the 70s the min.passing grades required for induction into the PAF was 55%and 50% in PA. i dont remember for PN but i am sure it was similar.

in the 80s/90s this benchmark was reduced to 45% for PAF and 33% for PA. why? maybe because they were not achieving their recruitment quotas with those high standards. this can lead to what x_man has alluded to "lower performance".

i dont know maybe u r right - the weapons systems are more complex.

 

[x_man]

Pilots and controllers come to do CCS with an average of 11 to 13 years of commissioned service and they bring with them good experience of controlling and fighter flying. I won’t go into the detailed breakdown of course but its mainly split into Air Superiority and Surface attack phases. I don’t think that pilots have slacked or the standards have gone down , I would rather say that with enhanced avionics , AIs , VTRs in cockpits , accurate NAVAIDS, automation etc etc, standards have raised and things have become a bit tougher. Its difficult to get away with the mistakes because 20 things will point out your error, one such example would be old 35 mm CINE cameras in A-5/F-6 compared to VTRs in F-7P/PG…

There is nothing wrong with the selection procedure or the standards…. Its just that things have become a bit more difficult, systems more complex , pilot workload has increased tremendously and yard sticks have become tougher…

 

[fatman17]

Pilots and controllers come to do CCS with an average of 11 to 13 years of commissioned service and they bring with them good experience of controlling and fighter flying. I won’t go into the detailed breakdown of course but its mainly split into Air Superiority and Surface attack phases. I don’t think that pilots have slacked or the standards have gone down , I would rather say that with enhanced avionics , AIs , VTRs in cockpits , accurate NAVAIDS, automation etc etc, standards have raised and things have become a bit tougher. Its difficult to get away with the mistakes because 20 things will point out your error, one such example would be old 35 mm CINE cameras in A-5/F-6 compared to VTRs in F-7P/PG…

There is nothing wrong with the selection procedure or the standards…. Its just that things have become a bit more difficult, systems more complex , pilot workload has increased tremendously and yard sticks have become tougher…

Sir-u r the expert - i cannot challenge your reasoning!

 

[fatman17]

F-16.net :: The Ultimate F-16 Reference

Blue on Blue or own goal...

"Between May 1986 and November of 1988, PAF F-16s have shot down at least eight intruders from Afghanistan. The first three of these (one Su-22, one probable Su-22, and one An-26) were shot down by two pilots from No. 9 Squadron. Pilots of No. 14 Squadron destroyed the remaining five intruders (two Su-22s, two MiG-23s, and one Su-25). Most of these kills were by the AIM-9 Sidewinder, but at least one (a Su-22) was destroyed by cannon fire. Flight Lieutenant Khalid Mamood is credited with three of these kills. At least one F-16 was lost in these battles, this one in an encounter between two F-16s and six Afghan Air Force aircraft on April 29th, 1987. However, the lost F-16 appears to have been an 'own goal', having been hit by a Sidewinder fired by the other F-16. The unfortunate F-16 pilot (Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan) ejected safely."

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Pilots and controllers come to do CCS with an average of 11 to 13 years of commissioned service and they bring with them good experience of controlling and fighter flying. I won’t go into the detailed breakdown of course but its mainly split into Air Superiority and Surface attack phases. I don’t think that pilots have slacked or the standards have gone down , I would rather say that with enhanced avionics , AIs , VTRs in cockpits , accurate NAVAIDS, automation etc etc, standards have raised and things have become a bit tougher. Its difficult to get away with the mistakes because 20 things will point out your error, one such example would be old 35 mm CINE cameras in A-5/F-6 compared to VTRs in F-7P/PG…
There is nothing wrong with the selection procedure or the standards…. Its just that things have become a bit more difficult, systems more complex , pilot workload has increased tremendously and yard sticks have become tougher…

sir what is VTR and NAVAIDS?

 

[x_man]

VTR or AVTR stands for Airborne Video Tape Recorder. In old aircrafts we had 35 m.m cameras that only started to function once trigger was pressed on the control stick. Their picture quality was poor, very short recording time and it used to create lots of confusions when pilots debriefed the mission on the ground.

However, with F-16s also came the AVTRs…its almost like a recording on the VHS cassettes…its quality and recording time was much better and greater than the 35mm…

In F-7 P/PGs/ROSE Mirages, now we have an even better recording and pilot can record his mission from start-up to switch off. The recording help a great deal in mission debriefing, assessing ones mistakes, checking kills etc etc….

NAVAIDS is just abbreviation used for Navigation Aids. And AI is short for Airborne Interceptor i.e. the airborne radar in the nose of the fighter aircraft..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

VTR or AVTR stands for Airborne Video Tape Recorder. In old aircrafts we had 35 m.m cameras that only started to function once trigger was pressed on the control stick. Their picture quality was poor, very short recording time and it used to create lots of confusions when pilots debriefed the mission on the ground.

However, with F-16s also came the AVTRs…its almost like a recording on the VHS cassettes…its quality and recording time was much better and greater than the 35mm…

In F-7 P/PGs/ROSE Mirages, now we have an even better recording and pilot can record his mission from start-up to switch off. The recording help a great deal in mission debriefing, assessing ones mistakes, checking kills etc etc….

NAVAIDS is just abbreviation used for Navigation Aids. And AI is short for Airborne Interceptor i.e. the airborne radar in the nose of the fighter aircraft..

Sir with the presence of ex/active airforce pilots is at its best!
ohh sir cant you just pull out one of videos from 60s and pop it up here..

 

[blain2]

Pilots and controllers come to do CCS with an average of 11 to 13 years of commissioned service and they bring with them good experience of controlling and fighter flying. I won’t go into the detailed breakdown of course but its mainly split into Air Superiority and Surface attack phases. I don’t think that pilots have slacked or the standards have gone down , I would rather say that with enhanced avionics , AIs , VTRs in cockpits , accurate NAVAIDS, automation etc etc, standards have raised and things have become a bit tougher. Its difficult to get away with the mistakes because 20 things will point out your error, one such example would be old 35 mm CINE cameras in A-5/F-6 compared to VTRs in F-7P/PG…

There is nothing wrong with the selection procedure or the standards…. Its just that things have become a bit more difficult, systems more complex , pilot workload has increased tremendously and yard sticks have become tougher…

I concur with you. Additionally I also think that the single biggest factor in grading becoming much more stringent may have something to do with use of ACMI pods in training nowadays. I am not sure what kind PAF is using but supposedly they have had ACMI pods since the last 6-7 years or so and may have already upgraded to more updated ones.

 

[Muradk]

You are very right X:
but when I think back I see why we all got 100% in CCS because we had fought 65 , 71 war. and the pilots who were doing CCS had 1 hunter , 1 gnat, some had 2 , 1 had Mig21 one had a Hunter and a Gnat under his belt, I will give you a few names like Javid latif, Aamir Sharif, Sattar Alvi, jamal Khan, sulaman Nabis ( both twin brothers ) , Ijaz azam,
Naeem Atta, Atta ur rehman , MHK Dotani, Salimudin, Zahid anees, Shaid sarfarz, Shafi, Arif moota , Maroof Mir, mansoor, and many more . These pilots had so much time underneath them from 65 , 71 war and them they all served Arab Wars and they kicked israli *****. So now we come for CCS and we have so much combat experience and time inside a cockpit that most of the times we were better that our instructors who were vetrens as well.

Just replying to another thread the benchmark for PAF had risen to 75% After 2003.