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The sad irony of today's fatal MiG-21 crash

As per Indian government nearly half the fleet is not operational at a given time. Maintenance is big challenge for IaF, thats what happens when you fly 7 different types of combat aircraft. There is famous saying for such situation “Amateur talks about strategy, professionals talks about logistics”.

What strategy ? India has no strategy.
India front line fighters probably have 6 different engines family from at least 4 countries.
What kind of strategy is that ?
This is a setup for failure !
 
Why is the Indian so quiet? No comment there?

@SuperStar20 @Jackdaws
What strategy ? India has no strategy.
India front line fighters probably have 6 different engines family from at least 4 countries.
What kind of strategy is that ?
This is a setup for failure !
Then they brag it's the brilliant of diversify without putting all eggs in a basket by heavily complicate their logistics and maintenance with so many different aircraft models. :rofl:
 
The sad irony of today's fatal MiG-21 crash
Death of Group Captain Ashish Gupta, a seasoned fighter pilot, in a MiG-21 Bison fighter crash today over has cast a pall of gloom over the Indian Air Force.


Shiv Aroor

Shiv Aroor New DelhiMarch 17, 2021UPDATED: March 17, 2021 19:46 IST
Mig21 crash indian air force

File photo of a MiG-21 fighter aircraft.


Two MiG-21 crashes 71 days apart. In one, the Commanding Officer of the squadron survived. In the second, the man who was to replace him as Commanding Officer, didn't. A bitter irony that has emerged in the latest tragedy to hit the Indian Air Force.
The death of Group Captain Ashish Gupta, a seasoned fighter pilot, in a MiG-21 Bison fighter crash today over Central India has cast an especially dark pall of gloom over the Indian Air Force.
The officer was on a combat training mission, which ended in an emergency he apparently couldn't eject from. While a Court of Inquiry will go into every last detail of what happened, the irony is a deeply tragic one.
Earlier posted to the IAF's Tactics and Air Combat Development Establishment (TCDE), late Group Captain Gupta was all set to take charge as the Commanding Officer of a frontline MiG-21 squadron in Rajasthan last month -- a move that was delayed by January MiG-21 fighter crash in January in Suratgarh, in which the then Commanding Officer of the squadron Group Captain Nitin Nayal had managed to eject.
That the outgoing and inbound Commanding Officers of the same frontline MiG-21 squadron faced crashing aircraft just over two months apart is only the latest in a saga of controversy surrounding the vintage Soviet aircraft type.
Months before the pair of MiG-21 accidents, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria had flown in a MiG-21 Bison in Suratgarh in August last year.
Once operated in a huge numbers as the backbone of the Indian Air Force, four squadrons of the type remain. Upgrades and upkeep have kept the jets not just fit for flight, but effective in combat too.

It was a MiG-21 Bison that went head to head with inbound Pakistan Air Force jets in the post-Balakot air skirmish over the Line of Control.
But a spate of crashes, many of them fatal, has amplified the urge to see the backs of these ageing jets as quickly as possible.
The Indian Air Force will soon have its first full squadron of indigenous Tejas jets. With the IAF signing up for over 100 more Tejas jets, most of them of an improved variety, the IAF leadership could theoretically be in a position to hasten the retirement of its MiG-21 fighters.
The challenges of squadron strength and depleting numbers, however, make any drastic moves unlikely and difficult.
The IAF has consistently held that there is never a single compromise on keeping aircraft flightworthy, no matter how old they are. Apart from the sheer number of flight hours generated by these jets, several other variables have crept in from time to time across accidents involving MiG-21s, including quality control in license manufacture of MiG-21s by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, availability of quality spares and, quite simply, the age of the jets themselves.
While vastly improved over their baseline variants, it is still true that the IAF has been using MiG-21s since the late 1960s.
Arguments that the MiG-21s ought to be retired post haste since brand new Rafale jets are trickling in also don't really hold weight.
The Indian Air Force has acknowledged the legacy leap provided by the Rafales, but wisdom, experience and doctrine still dictates there is no replacement for sheer numbers of airframes that an air force can throw into a fight.
India's airspace and security atmosphere since early 2019, and right through 2020, has proven that the need for credible, dependable airpower is being felt more than at any time since the Kargil conflict.
The IAF, Army and Navy have lost at least 60 aircraft and helicopters in crashes just since 2015-2016,
which have claimed well over 70 lives, in a grim reminder of the unacceptably high military crash rate in India.

a possible option is to offer the Jf-17 block 1 to India in this role or better yet, the cranked double delta f-7pg should be offered to India as a quick replacement 😀
With over 250 SU-30s and over 100 Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s combined plus 100 + upgraded Jaguars.....how is the IAF lacking modern equipment.
That’s true jammer!
However the thing is India has to counter Pakistan and China at the same time. Rafales has definitely given a breathing space to the establishment however the fact remains China is on another level when it comes to level playing field (the Himalayas save us for now)
India and Indians have to realise the ultimate enemy of the state is China.
BTW it’s less to do with Pakistan and more with competition.

you trying a fast one windjammer there are 45 mirage 2000 according to Wikipedia when did india buy another 55 jets ? Moreover, 10 Rafael’s provide india with breathing room Against the 3rd and 5 th largest air forces in the world? What is this lord Rawan the greatest Indian king ever ?

I never understand that why do we have such a high casualty rate. Generally, the pilots of Western Countries survive more than us South Asian nations when fighter jet crashes. Or maybe it is just a wrong perception on my part.

nope, it’s only India’s against flying IAF that have this problem all other air forces are good they even crashed 80 basic trainers.it’s just poor quality all around in the IAF

k
 
Making statements just to convince your bewildered public is not exactly planning.
No country with the exception of one or two super powers can even dream of fighting a two front war....specially when on one front you are out numbered and out gunned.
Hey what do i know? I was Just quoting the IAF chief.

Defends on against which countries. For example if IAF is planning to take on srilank and Nepal then ok.
 
Huge land forces can help make up for it/balance the disadvantage in airpower out? just wondering.
I
No..

Maybe against nepal or bhutan. Against burma and bangladesh to some extent.

Against china and pakistan? No way. The way IAF is detiorating. PAF and PLAAF will have a field day.

With such an airforce that is going down, this will decrease IA offensive thrust radius into pak. Before the threat was that IA backed by IAF will be able to cut Pakistan in half. Now they will be maximum reach the attock before PA counter offense pushes them back..
 
what combat training he was doing on a junk ? are they still willing to use this pipe shape 20th century jet for combat ?
 
what combat training he was doing on a junk ? are they still willing to use this pipe shape 20th century jet for combat ?
You forget the Indian inferiority complex psyche. Since Mig21 was shot down, it must now be shown to be superior to a Pakistani jet. Its retirement will be delayed until it has exacted verifiable revenge upon a Pakistani jet. Even if they need to shoot it up with steroids for one final mission, they will do so. Then and only then will they put it out to pasture.

PAF rolls its eyes and waits eagerly.
 
You forget the Indian inferiority complex psyche. Since Mig21 was shot down, it must now be shown to be superior to a Pakistani jet. Its retirement will be delayed until it has exacted verifiable revenge upon a Pakistani jet. Even if they need to shoot it up with steroids for one final mission, they will do so. Then and only then will they put it out to pasture.

PAF rolls its eyes and waits eagerly.
and you dont know how bad i feel when every 20 years i read news PAF shot down mig-21 . it seems in my life PAF will have no other hope . :lol:
 
Group captains and Air commodores doing training missions

Nice work IAF :tup:

Air Commodore Hameed Qadri Base Commander Paf Minhas died flying an F.7P.
Group Captain Asad OC flying Masroor died flying a Mirage,sadly a CFIT.
Air Commodore Shafqat Base Commander Paf Rafiqui died in a Mirage due to bad weather.

Now all this happened in Pakistan airforce in the last 2 decades,reality is that senior officers are still expected to fly in both the airforces.
One problem with IAF is that it's quite top heavy,in Paf a Group Captain commands a flying wing while in IAF the same rank person is only about to command a squadron which to be honest is a bit unfair,this is something that was also pointed out by Pusphinder Singh in his book "Fizaia The Pysche of Pakistan airforce".

Having said all this an aircrash with loss of life is still a major concern. The comparatively low crash rate of F.7's in Pakistan is because of the regular overhauls the aircraft go through which is something the Indians never invested in and that's a big reason for such a high crash rate.We in Pakistan consider F.7's as flying coffins but reality is that majority of F.7 aircrashes have been due to pilot error and one big reason is the inexperience of pilots,very few have crashed because of technical snags.
 
and you dont know how bad i feel when every 20 years i read news PAF shot down mig-21 . it seems in my life PAF will have no other hope . :lol:

I worked it out, 1980s was only decade Pak did not shoot down an Indian aircraft

1950s - Canberra over Pakistan
1965 war
1971 war
1999 - Kargil - MIG-21/MIG-23
2000s- Hermes UAV
2010s - Balakot MIG-21/SU-30


We spent the 80s shooting down Afghan/Soviet planes instead.....

Now one can start to understand the psychological impact PAF has in Indian public, media and forums
 
What strategy ? India has no strategy.
India front line fighters probably have 6 different engines family from at least 4 countries.
What kind of strategy is that ?
This is a setup for failure !
Interesting observations Indians always talk about two front war without any logistics support 😀
 
Air Commodore Hameed Qadri Base Commander Paf Minhas died flying an F.7P.
Group Captain Asad OC flying Masroor died flying a Mirage,sadly a CFIT.
Air Commodore Shafqat Base Commander Paf Rafiqui died in a Mirage due to bad weather.

Now all this happened in Pakistan airforce in the last 2 decades,reality is that senior officers are still expected to fly in both the airforces.
One problem with IAF is that it's quite top heavy,in Paf a Group Captain commands a flying wing while in IAF the same rank person is only about to command a squadron which to be honest is a bit unfair,this is something that was also pointed out by Pusphinder Singh in his book "Fizaia The Pysche of Pakistan airforce".

Having said all this an aircrash with loss of life is still a major concern. The comparatively low crash rate of F.7's in Pakistan is because of the regular overhauls the aircraft go through which is something the Indians never invested in and that's a big reason for such a high crash rate.We in Pakistan consider F.7's as flying coffins but reality is that majority of F.7 aircrashes have been due to pilot error and one big reason is the inexperience of pilots,very few have crashed because of technical snags.
The Hameed Qadri crash was very unfortunate. . He did not separate from the ejection seat.

I recall hearing 2 crashes that day. One was his F-7P and one was a Hawk 102 student at Dubai that had crashed on base turn to finals. It was a very sad day for us at home.
 
Poor guy hope his family find solace somehow. He was doing his duty.
I’m sure the Tejas will end their dark spell with the Mig-21.
Losing such a highly trained flying leader is not something that can be easily overcome.
 
That’s true jammer!
However the thing is India has to counter Pakistan and China at the same time. Rafales has definitely given a breathing space to the establishment however the fact remains China is on another level when it comes to level playing field (the Himalayas save us for now)
India and Indians have to realise the ultimate enemy of the state is China.
BTW it’s less to do with Pakistan and more with competition.



keep telling your self that...
 
That’s true jammer!
However the thing is India has to counter Pakistan and China at the same time. Rafales has definitely given a breathing space to the establishment however the fact remains China is on another level when it comes to level playing field (the Himalayas save us for now)
India and Indians have to realise the ultimate enemy of the state is China.
BTW it’s less to do with Pakistan and more with competition.
You can not fight and survive two front war even IAF procure 126 rafales. This two front war theory is just spreaded by your generals and beurocracy including politicians to grab more money for acquisition so that they can have their share.

IAF cannot even fight half of PLAAF alone with all their assests on disposal.
 
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