The role a girls parents, siblings should play in her married life?

[Haris Ali2140]

She immigirated all by er own?

What is the age of her children?

Both are adults.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

To my parents delight they found a Pakistani American doctor in his early 30's

"Did you iron your father's shirts like this"

"I want you to do all the dishes, don't make my parents do them"

"Why do I always see my parents do the dishes", the guy leaves for work early in the morning ie 7 and comes home late at night by 9-10 and just because he sees his dad or mom clean a few dishes, he assumes that my sister didn't do anything at all in the kitchen

"I worked hard and managed to get myself a scholarship of $500,000 and some student loans which I paid off myself, you have been given everything on a platter by daddy"

They also think that in order for her to really win the respect of her new family, her husband, it is imperative for her to clear her USMLE exam, find a good residency and become an American doctor so that she has an income of her own.

My dad has also set up an account for them and wishes to help my sister and her husband a down payment for their first house.

She was like she was sick and tired of the emotional abuse from her husband, his demanding nature, his expectations of perfectionism, the fact he was always treating her as a servant. That she was now in a family where you either compete or get left behind, no sympathy for issues. His demands for high quality fresh food cooked for him everyday, his unsympathetic attitude towards her studies, his comments that she is not what he expected and her frustrations with mom, dad that she tells them everything but they keep ignoring her by telling her to suck it up, deal with it, compromise, study for her exams and she in her frustration commented that her own parents had zero idea about how difficult her life was balancing married life, domestic duties and then studies because they benefitted massively from having servants in Pakistan

I am deeply troubled and upset right now.

Just a few observations. I think it would have been a smarter move to have your sister take the USMLE before getting married or at least discuss it during the marriage negotiations. Preparation is a long process and being made a servant has completely ruined it.

Why does she need to clean dishes? We have machines that do that. Is he clueless in buying one for her? It's pretty standard in US homes since the 1960's. You can buy one for $250.

Why does she have to iron his clothes? They make clothes these days that are non-iron/wrinkle-free (from $100+ Brooks Brothers dress shirts all the way down to the $10 Costco ones). I don't think my wife or I have ever picked up our house iron in the last 10+ years (it's sitting on the floor in the back of a closet). Even clothes dryers have wrinkle free settings. During vacation trips we just toss our clothes in the hotel dryer and never use the room iron.

Not sure why he is expecting an exquisite 10 course meal every night. I guess I'm not fussy. Whatever my wife makes I'm happy with it.

You can either make your life really hard or easy. My wife sometimes mows our lawn. She bought me a battery powered one that you can pick up with one finger so she can do it...she couldn't handle my old ~70lb one.

 

[Longhorn]

Just a few observations. I think it would have been a smarter move to have your sister take the USMLE before getting married or at least discuss it during the marriage negotiations. Preparation is a long process and being made a servant has completely ruined it.

Why does she need to clean dishes? We have machines that do that. Is he clueless in buying one for her? It's pretty standard in US homes since the 1960's. You can buy one for $250.

Why does she have to iron his clothes? They make clothes these days that are wrinkle-free (from $100+ Brooks Brothers dress shirts all the way down to the $10 Costco ones). I don't think my wife or I have ever picked up our house iron in the last 10+ years (it's sitting on the floor in the back of a closet). Even clothes dryers have wrinkle free settings. During vacation trips we just toss our clothes in the hotel dryer and never use the room iron.

Not sure why he is expecting an exquisite 10 course meal every night. I guess I'm not fussy. Whatever my wife makes I'm happy with it.

Someone has to put the dishes into the dishwasher and it's not going to be him

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Someone has to put the dishes into the dishwasher and it's not going to be him

Well every time I put them in she says I do it wrong and she has her own specific way. I just stack them nearby.

 

[Longhorn]

Well every time I put them in she says I do it wrong and she has her own specific way. I just stack them nearby.

Leave her to it mate.

 

[Hiraa]

People should do isthekhara before any commitment.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

This is bad but being in US, they can get marriage counselling as it's easy available and not a taboo.

But firstly your parents have to intervene and raise the concerns without aggression. Give the guy some time before making radical decisions.

I think your sister is crushed with over-expectations from susral, husband and parents. You want her to be a super performer in her career and family life. This is the biggest dilemna with doctor bahus. Society wants them to give 100% at both career and house. This will crush her. Lower expectations.

 

[cleverrider]

@Savak
1 – When something is too good to be true it’s not usually true.

2- Yes you are over thinking this, for example you won’t have the same perspective 6 months down the line - not as harsh.

3 – Similar thing happened to my cousin (but both not as educated), She started working now (teacher) things are a little better.

4- The level this sheep is at is pretty low, he has gotten to that with 1 channel of academic means e.g. medicine. When he has pressure from work, society or just in general, mostly responds with that the one level he has exceeded in. He is still low level sheep, overall low by the looks of it and his actions/responses speaks for themselves. (my class of levels, academics/maturity/experience/unbiasedness /intelligence) etc.

5- Apart from the above advice given by members, I will advise your sister to get herself busy with something, physically and emotionally. Get a job, part time teaching, care home work, anything. Even if she has to volunteer.

I hardly post (coz i am lazy) but i have a sister too and mostly I will have the same feelings as you mentioned above.

You are thinking about punching him in the throat, as pathans.. we dont tend to use our hands as often. I joke

Hopefully you found something useful or made you smile, coz that’s what matters life is too short.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Advise him respectfully and let him know how his actions are affecting your sister. Let him know that he also has a sister and if she were to be treated this way, he would not stand for it either. Allah swt has a funny way of punishing arrogant people.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Not too long ago there was a thread of someone in france marrying a nawabzadi from Lahore.

What your family is going through is culture shock.

The perfect progressive image presented to us in Hollywood movies is not true at all. Many new Pakistanis go through a hard awakening.

 

[PakSword]

My Baby sister immigrated to Canada in the beginning of 2018 after graduating from one of the top medical schools in Pakistan. My parents wanted her to get married afterwards as she turned 25 and I backed my parents decision.

To my parents delight they found a Pakistani American doctor in his early 30's ie my age via a referral from their professional circles of friends. The guy immediately managed to strike a very amazing impression on everyone in our family. The guys mother had been battling terminal breast cancer for the last 15 years and her story was even more remarkable because the doctors only gave her 6 months to live and she has been a heroic survivor.

My parents were super impressed to discover that the guy being the eldest of his 4 siblings in his family took on the responsibility of his mothers care himself compared to the younger siblings. The guys father has set backs during the time period as he got laid off from his engineering job and was never able to find employment in his field again. Eventually he had to make a decision and he decided to operate a home based business. But bottom line the father's financial situation was precarious and he was not able to support his kids education and was battling really hard to focus on his business and his wife's illness and this is where the eldest son had to step up. The father himself developed a stroke as a result of which the right side of his body is weaker compared to the left side.

My parents especially my mom felt that given how responsibly and lovingly the son took care of his ailing mother especially was a very good sign and that he would be equally caring and compassionate towards my sister.

The other plus point for my parents naturally was that he was a doctor who had trained to become an interventionist cardiologist and given that my sister herself was a Pakistani Doctor who had plans to study for her USMLE and later do a Masters in Public Health and a PhD this would again be a very good fit as doctors should ideally marry doctors as they both understand each others fields and the academic and professional pressures involved best.

The guy was a very gifted individual and had successfully achieved scholarships and very high grades another thing my parents were impressed with.

The guy being a 5 times namazi who never missed a single prayer was a big plus for my mom.

Apparently the guy had been having a tough time getting rishtas because his mothers illness became a source of concern for the girls family members. In fact the guy has a younger sister and even she was engaged once and the engagement was called off the moment they found out about the girls mothers suffering from breast cancer and they were upset at not having being told before hand.

My sister and the guy had met in the beginning of 2018 and have literally spoken every single day since they met on social media, whatsapp and phone. He even once flew down to Canada to meet her and she flew down to the US to meet him. Eventually my parents asked my sister if she was happy and comfortable with the guy and she said yes and so did the guy. Me and my elder brother got to meet the guy in the US later on as a formality and we found the guy to be socially very confident, opinionated and an excellent conversationalist and personally we all as a family felt this was an excellent match given that my sister herself was a super talkative social personality and therefore it was imperative that she also found a guy who matched her in that regard We finally made the engagement public with our immediate family members who met the guy during a family dinner and they were super impressed with him and his ability to be charming, to create an impression, to easily talk playfully with kids and to have a mature engaging conversation with adults

They got nikaofied by the end of the year and they kept talking each and every day on the phone for 3-4 hours almost daily. He even flew down once to Canada for 3-4 days during which my sister went to live with him as she was his wife now. My baby sister used to be very close to me and would never hide anything from me and would always confide in me whenever she was upset or depressed about something. However ever since her fiancé and her husband came to her life, her attitude and opinion changed for the worst and I almost felt like she felt I was not as mature, personally, professionally as well settled as I should be and in many ways she stopped confiding with me and didn't want anything much to do with me as her entire world was her fiancé and her husband now. I accepted it as a gradual inevitability of life that everyone goes through and that everyone has the right to move on in their lives and that siblings should give each other their spaces.

The marriage ceremonies finally took place in the Summer this year and during this whole time all of us felt this was an excellent union where both the couples personality wise, education and field wise very an excellent combination for each other. However, since then so many things have come to light which have petrified me that things are not rosy, milk and honey as people expect it to be. It's almost like as if the guy has completely dropped his guard down now that he has successfully managed to marry my sister and that he doesn't have to worry about losing her.

My sister naturally speaks to only my mom and dad on whatsapp but she doesn't seem me mature enough to talk too about these things.

My first major concern about the guy and his family occurred during the Valima when the guys brother in his speech made comments that my sister should be very grateful that she did not have to work as hard as her husband, struggle and battle through tough times as her husband did during his journey to become a doctor. That speech really got me very very upset and was the first real warning sign to me about this Pakistani American family thinking they were far superior compared to Pakistanis born and raised in Pakistan. My parents, immediate and extended family members were very upset with the speech especially with the sight that my sisters husband was smiling, smirking the whole time without any feelings of offence over his brothers comments towards my sister. My parents decided to let the matter go and not make a big deal out of it in the largest interests of piece and harmony

Now I am not out here to claim my baby sister is perfect or flawless. She was born and raised in Pakistan where we enjoyed the benefit, privilege of having a nice comfortable lifestyle of servants and never had to worry about money problems. But she has battled very hard through her own problems. She was diagnosed with Dyslexia and she was having problems in keeping her numbers decent in high school because she was not naturally as gifted and bright compared to other normal bright students. But she still took on the challenge of being the only child to pursue medicine which is always a challenge for even normally bright students, battled through many resits, re examinations, sleepless nights, kept dusting herself off the floor and eventually graduated to be a doctor from the top medical school in Pakistan

It's been 3 months now since the marriage took place and a lot of troubling things keep coming to light. Apparently the guy is not exactly the loving compassionate guy that he portrayed himself to be in front of us and our family. In fact what I am learning is that he cares more about the well-being of his family ie parents, even siblings even if it comes at the expense of my sisters emotional well being. The guy has been non stop criticizing my sister day in day out about her imperfections on every single thing that he could find and I am going to quote some of the things he has been saying to my sister

"Your cooking sucks, what the hell did you do all these years living in your parents home"

"Did you iron your father's shirts like this"

"I want you to do all the dishes, don't make my parents do them"

"Why do I always see my parents do the dishes", the guy leaves for work early in the morning ie 7 and comes home late at night by 9-10 and just because he sees his dad or mom clean a few dishes, he assumes that my sister didn't do anything at all in the kitchen

"This is what you signed up for, suck it up, this is your life now" When my sister was upset about missing her parents and family

"It's a pity that your father's excellent world wide reputation, professional qualifications, achievements does not reflect on any of his kids"

"I worked hard and managed to get myself a scholarship of $500,000 and some student loans which I paid off myself, you have been given everything on a platter by daddy"

"I better not here him complain about you, everyone is being so nice, understanding and accepting towards you but you are the one who is being difficult and impossible". This was after my sister had to use the younger brothers computer to send a few emails because the WiFi was not working in her room and she needed to send it urgently and the younger brother was in the washroom and couldn't be approached for permission at the time. He got upset and complained to everyone including his elder brother

Now I am not trying to say here that my baby sister is perfect or doesn't have flaws like we all do, but I know for a fact that she is trying her level best to adjust and adapt to married life. She now wakes up in the morning at 6 to make sure her husband has his breakfast before he leaves for work and packs lunch for him. She helps his mother with cooking, kitchen and house work as much as possible. She makes sure when he comes home at night he has dinner immediately

The guy hounds her over spending with a fine tooth comb, if she buys a cup of coffee, women cosmetics or even groceries he keeps mentally torturing her with comments that you are financially reckless and irresponsible even though he himself has no qualms on spending as much as he wants on himself, his luxury items, his countless lunches and dinners outside.

My sister came to Toronto for a week last month and on the night of her departure he again sent her a very demeaning whatsapp message regarding her spending habits and I could over hear my sister crying like mad next to my mom "Mom, how much can I change, compromise and take? He only married me for my face, he should have married someone more suitable for him, I can't take it anymore"

My parents especially my mom are off the view point that in order for any marriage to be successful, it is the girl who has to make more sacrifices than the guy and that it is her duty to suck it up and deal with it especially when there are kids involved. My mom also have the viewpoint that my sister has been raised with a lot of love, pampering and that she needs to toughen up and accept the realities of life in her susral and married life.

They also think that in order for her to really win the respect of her new family, her husband, it is imperative for her to clear her USMLE exam, find a good residency and become an American doctor so that she has an income of her own. In fact my dad is also encouraging my sister to aim big by looking to do a masters in public health program and then a PhD so that she can have expanded career options. My dad knowing full well that her husband cannot afford the tuition amount has already set aside the money for her to fund her education.

My dad has also set up an account for them and wishes to help my sister and her husband a down payment for their first house. Which girls father is willing to provide such gifts for his son in law especially it is the son in law, his family who is responsible for taking care of his wife and her needs

Today after a long long time, my baby sister reached out to me after almost 2 years as the elder brother she had always been close to on Whatsapp and it literally felt like she was crying in front of me. She was like she was sick and tired of the emotional abuse from her husband, his demanding nature, his expectations of perfectionism, the fact he was always treating her as a servant. That she was now in a family where you either compete or get left behind, no sympathy for issues. His demands for high quality fresh food cooked for him everyday, his unsympathetic attitude towards her studies, his comments that she is not what he expected and her frustrations with mom, dad that she tells them everything but they keep ignoring her by telling her to suck it up, deal with it, compromise, study for her exams and she in her frustration commented that her own parents had zero idea about how difficult her life was balancing married life, domestic duties and then studies because they benefitted massively from having servants in Pakistan

I am deeply troubled and upset right now. I know my parents are not going to do anything. Ideally speaking I feel like going to the US right now and delivering the most powerful Mike Tyson right hand as possible on the guys jaw or going up to the guy John Rambo style, grabbing him by the throat and threatening to rip his insides out if he doesn't mend his ways and change his attitude, behavior towards my sister. But alas, I know this is real life and not a movie.

I think the guy is now talking full advantage of the fact that divorce for Pakistani women and girls is a big no and they become heavily socially stigmatized because of which they suck it up and as a result of which they have nothing to fear anymore.

Anyways the reason for me creating this thread is because I need some feedback from experienced people here who have dealt with these things when their sisters have gotten married into a new family? Am I over thinking this? Is stuff like this natural in a newly wed couples early married life? Do the girls parents and her siblings have the right to forcefully intervene to correct unacceptable behaviour and attitude in the guy? Is there some way we can put the fear of God and consequences in the guy I can't stand my sister being miserable like this any longer.

I feel like aggressively talking to my parents now about this issue and that we need to do something about this to resolve these problems otherwise it's not going to get better on its own But before I discuss this with them, I thought I would ask everyone over here

Brother, listen to his side of the story. If you still think that these are not the usual fights that happen between a husband and wife, and that your sister is not at fault, ask your sister to file for a divorce.

Sorry for saying this, but living alone is much better than living in an abusive relationship.

One more thing you need to take care of: Kids. If they have kids, give this relationship another chance (but just one), and if not, come out of this relationship ASAP.

Stress is a major cause of many diseases and by the time people realize, it's already too late.

Say "thank you" to your brother in law for showing his true self earlier in the married life, and then say "good bye".

Just a few observations. I think it would have been a smarter move to have your sister take the USMLE before getting married or at least discuss it during the marriage negotiations. Preparation is a long process and being made a servant has completely ruined it.

Why does she need to clean dishes? We have machines that do that. Is he clueless in buying one for her? It's pretty standard in US homes since the 1960's. You can buy one for $250.

Why does she have to iron his clothes? They make clothes these days that are non-iron/wrinkle-free (from $100+ Brooks Brothers dress shirts all the way down to the $10 Costco ones). I don't think my wife or I have ever picked up our house iron in the last 10+ years (it's sitting on the floor in the back of a closet). Even clothes dryers have wrinkle free settings. During vacation trips we just toss our clothes in the hotel dryer and never use the room iron.

Not sure why he is expecting an exquisite 10 course meal every night. I guess I'm not fussy. Whatever my wife makes I'm happy with it.

You can either make your life really hard or easy. My wife sometimes mows our lawn. She bought me a battery powered one that you can pick up with one finger so she can do it...she couldn't handle my old ~70lb one.

What you have suggested are few things. An abusive relationship can't be handled with these little changes.

If one party is abusive, it will bring up new issues all the time, even to the point of "look how you sit, or walk, or stand.... disgusting!" And that "I am much better than you in every respect".

This relationship is going that way.. iron free cloths or a dishwasher will not help at all.

 

[Sabretooth]

I respect OPs point of view and do not blame his sister at all but I would like to add my 2 cents on the following sentence from his post;

''In fact, what I am learning is that he cares more about the well-being of his family ie parents, even siblings''

Mind you that I have sisters and all are happily married (Alhamdulillah).
Now as an upstanding person, caring more for your parents and siblings is only natural. Woman who carried you for nine months in her womb and then took take care of you at the expense of all her comforts and desires to see you succeed and stand on your own 2 feet so that you can carry yourself with pride and confidence in the society and then another woman whom you have only known for a couple of years or less even comes into your life and demand the attention on equal terms, does that sound agreeable?
Same goes for your father and siblings who know you intimately and have been with you through thick and thin and then a woman who is practically a stranger in comparison demands to be the center of attention, does that sound fair?

 

[Flash_Ninja]

unpopular opinion but the way Pakistanis do marriage is so backwards and flawed.
All the assumptions that go into it "good job, good family, etc" are worthless.
A person can have a great job and great family but still be a total POS.

and if Pakistani men want a house maid, then just freaking hire one.
you are not marrying a servant, you are marrying a person.

Finally, women who go to med school just to become house wives are cancer, they are literally causing death and suffering as they are taking opportunists away from people who will actually serve the community and help people.

/rant

Not unpopular you are completely right

To add to this, husbands who stop their wives from studying or working after marriage are absolute scum

 

[Savak]

I respect OPs point of view and do not blame his sister at all but I would like to add my 2 cents on the following sentence from his post;

''In fact, what I am learning is that he cares more about the well-being of his family ie parents, even siblings''

Mind you that I have sisters and all are happily married (Alhamdulillah).
Now as an upstanding person, caring more for your parents and siblings is only natural. Woman who carried you for nine months in her womb and then took take care of you at the expense of all her comforts and desires to see you succeed and stand on your own 2 feet so that you can carry yourself with pride and confidence in the society and then another woman whom you have only known for a couple of years or less even comes into your life and demand the attention on equal terms, does that sound agreeable?
Same goes for your father and siblings who know you intimately and have been with you through thick and thin and then a woman who is practically a stranger in comparison demands to be the center of attention, does that sound fair?

I think what she was eluding to was the fact he does not consider her a human at all in comparison to his own family members and is not as sympathetic towards her at all.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Let’s address the Issue here:

#1 Guy most probably got too much on his plate (Financially and emotionally), no body wants their sick parents doing house work, when they got jobless wife at home. Therefore your sister was ill prepare to take on the roll of big bahu of the House.

#2 Typically Pakistani girls with decent education lacks cooking and other home management skills. Since they were not put through the physical rigors of hours it takes to cook, clean in their house, now they feel overwhelmed doing this in their new house.

#3 Should have married her in her age group. Instead of going after better degree or guys earning. If he was in his 30’s back then, guys testosterone most probably went down hill even further. Responsible, depression further reduces testosterone. Low testosterone i.e for 35 yoa ( not clinically but by age factor) mean lack of interest in activities and affection for 25 yoa.

Now what can be done to fix this situation:

#1 Your sister needs to get her USMLE and residency done ASAP. Husband thinks she is a dead weight ( liability) at home. Therefore she needs to earn her respect as a equal professional.
There is a possibility her husband things that your sister graduated from Pakistan and may not pass the exam in US or get a job on her own in US. So now he expect her to do home stuff like typical desi wife.

#2 Single men associate women with good smell and sophistication. In our culture Vurnabilities are exposed only after marriage and men lose interest. Tell her to take care of her personal hygiene ( At all times) and immediate personal area. I.e her room. Don’t demand to be treated like a princess, instead try to live like a princess with what she have. But this Is Something only your mother or other female in your family can advise your sister.

#3 Dont disrespect his parents and take care of them like her own with intention of eternal reward.

At the same time,She can tell her husband that Islamically, she has not duty to take care of his relatives ( I.e parents and siblings). So anything she do is considered Ahsaan, a good deed. So that he can fix his expectations of her duties.

For minor complaints, Don’t involve your mother or father unnecessary. Usually things go south. She is a grown women. She gotta face the world on her own. Help her, guide her but don’t give wrong advices without knowing the other side of the story. Hope this helps.

Itni jamae aur mukamal advice app koi aur koi nhi dy sakta.