The Rise of Feminism

[TheGreatMaratha]

We all have so many identities. We have a national identity, then a state identity, regional identity, linguistic identity, religious identity, gender identity, class identity, urban vs rural identity, etc. For example, if I'm living in my own state, I'll have more of a city identity. I'll try to distinguish myself from people of other regions by owning my city identity. For example, since I'm from Pune, I'll look at myself more of as a Punekar (we speak the most pure Marathi, atleast according to ourselves ) when I live in my own state. I'll differentiate myself from a Mumbaikar or a Nagpurkar, etc. If I travel outside my state for my work or for a trip, I'll tend to adopt more of a state/linguistic identity. (In India, many states have unique linguistic identities unlike other states). I'll look at myself more as a Maharashtrian. Similarly, if I travel outside India, I'll adopt more of a national identity, in this case being Indian.

We behave according to our different identities in different situations. We behave differently among relatives, friends, workplace colleagues,etc. Among friends, we are more easy going while among relatives we may be easy going when we are with our parents but maybe not when we are with our distant relatives.

Now comes the gender identity. Since time immemorial, men have asserted a lot of their gender identity. But it's not the case with women. Women have just now started asserting their gender identity and have started demanding their own rights. And kudos to them. Why? Because they have been suppressed for thousands of years by men. They have occupied positions that have been the least influential. Our history is full of kings fighting each other. But what about women? Well, in some wars they were treated as sex slaves of conquering armies, in some wars it was voluntary for them to suicide if a war is lost so that they may not be raped. The world history is 95% dominated by men. Wars, scientific inventions, radical ideas, religious figures, writers, poets, organization leaders, military leaders, scientists, etc. Why were women lacking behind? Especially when they have been 50% of world population? It's just because they didn't have equal rights as men. They didn't have equal status as men. Thus they didn't have equal opportunities. Now that they are demanding rights, men have become uncomfortable. Because men will lose their centuries old hold over women.

What do you guys think?
@Juggernaut_is_here @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri @Smarana Mitra

 

[El Sidd]

Please move this thread to Indian Defence section.

Thanks

 

[Raghav_101]

There is no denying the fact that women should have equal rights as men but i have two reservations

1. There are certain fields in which performance does depend on gender. Eg Combat.
Thus, the drive towards equal rights must not result in ignoring the clear demands of certain roles.

2. Feminist movement must understand that women didnt get equal rights over night in the West and it took them an aweful lot of time. Now I dont say that they should wait for a century but they need to take it slow as millions and millions of men in South Asia are just not ready for gender equality in everyday life.
P.S. I consider myself being biased against women too. This male ego is wrong. I accept it. I wish it wasnt there but thats how our society raised us. Hope it withers away.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

We all have so many identities. We have a national identity, then a state identity, regional identity, linguistic identity, religious identity, gender identity, class identity, urban vs rural identity, etc. For example, if I'm living in my own state, I'll have more of a city identity. I'll try to distinguish myself from people of other regions by owning my city identity. For example, since I'm from Pune, I'll look at myself more of as a Punekar (we speak the most pure Marathi, atleast according to ourselves ) when I live in my own state. I'll differentiate myself from a Mumbaikar or a Nagpurkar, etc. If I travel outside my state for my work or for a trip, I'll tend to adopt more of a state/linguistic identity. (In India, many states have unique linguistic identities unlike other states). I'll look at myself more as a Maharashtrian. Similarly, if I travel outside India, I'll adopt more of a national identity, in this case being Indian.

We behave according to our different identities in different situations. We behave differently among relatives, friends, workplace colleagues,etc. Among friends, we are more easy going while among relatives we may be easy going when we are with our parents but maybe not when we are with our distant relatives.

Now comes the gender identity. Since time immemorial, men have asserted a lot of their gender identity. But it's not the case with women. Women have just now started asserting their gender identity and have started demanding their own rights. And kudos to them. Why? Because they have been suppressed for thousands of years by men. They have occupied positions that have been the least influential. Our history is full of kings fighting each other. But what about women? Well, in some wars they were treated as sex slaves of conquering armies, in some wars it was voluntary for them to suicide if a war is lost so that they may not be raped. The world history is 95% dominated by men. Wars, scientific inventions, radical ideas, religious figures, writers, poets, organization leaders, military leaders, scientists, etc. Why were women lacking behind? Especially when they have been 50% of world population? It's just because they didn't have equal rights as men. They didn't have equal status as men. Thus they didn't have equal opportunities. Now that they are demanding rights, men have become uncomfortable. Because men will lose their centuries old hold over women.

What do you guys think?
@Juggernaut_is_here @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri @Smarana Mitra

Men are horrified if sexual selection is driven by women...Men feel (and may be rightly so) that civilizations will collapse if women are given complete free rein in choosing mates...But if you look in a spiritual sense sexual/romantic freedom is perhaps the one freedom a woman desires the most, probably more so than economic freedom...Economic freedom is just a stepping stone to exercise sexual freedom...Why men are horrified? Because men and women see sex differently.....If you ask many sexually frigid women whether it would be a big sacrifice for them if they had to give up sex forever, they might just give an uninterested shrug...but if you ask the same women how would they feel if their right to motherhood were to be taken away for their entire life, they might protest intensely ...Sex with desirable women for men is the equivalent of desire for motherhood for women............................For a woman, the feeling of being in love is of paramount importance, that an all encompassing romantic feeling has engulfed her life...How would a woman behave if she were to have complete sexual freedom whatsoever and on top of that had moderately high sexual hormones flowing through her? look no further than Catherine the Great of Russia...She is the
prototype woman as much as the Ottoman Sultans or Genghis Khan were protoytpe men...

What's the solution?

Although I think guranteeing every male member of the tribe a virgin on the wedding night confers societal stability, but I feel it weakens the lineage and population over several generations...as men who would have never found the love of women in a free and fair Darwinian competition are unworthily rewarded...But unmitigated sexual selection controlled by women is also not the answer as most of the biological energy of men will be used up in wooing women, leading to societies like pre-colonial sub Saharan Africa

There has to be a middle ground

1) Absolutely no arranged marriage

2) Let women choose and convey romantic interest to men on their own accord

3) Have responsibly adventurous time in young adult phase

4) when it comes to marriage, choose wisely , settle down and never look back at anybody else

5) This system will lead to one child family and general reduction of population

This system is not without its fault...But it has been in the West for a 100 years and the West is still going strength to strength

The Chads get to enjoy female company earlier in life and they join sports teams, armies and become the best commandos in the world

The nerds though bereft of female adoration early on, build tech empires and in their late thirties early 40s start enjoying life (Uber Kalanick, Tesla Musk etc)

Fair system and women also have their romantic sexual pleasure---->countries also remain strong


PS:Thanks for the positive rating @jaibi
@OsmanAli98
@Indus Pakistan
@jamahir
@Nilgiri
@Vergennes

 

[jaibi]

This is a 'Social Affair' and this is the closest section we have to it. I think it's OK if it stays here.

Nice of you to develop ideas and express them cogently, I'll add my two cents later.

We all have so many identities. We have a national identity, then a state identity, regional identity, linguistic identity, religious identity, gender identity, class identity, urban vs rural identity, etc. For example, if I'm living in my own state, I'll have more of a city identity. I'll try to distinguish myself from people of other regions by owning my city identity. For example, since I'm from Pune, I'll look at myself more of as a Punekar (we speak the most pure Marathi, atleast according to ourselves ) when I live in my own state. I'll differentiate myself from a Mumbaikar or a Nagpurkar, etc. If I travel outside my state for my work or for a trip, I'll tend to adopt more of a state/linguistic identity. (In India, many states have unique linguistic identities unlike other states). I'll look at myself more as a Maharashtrian. Similarly, if I travel outside India, I'll adopt more of a national identity, in this case being Indian.

We behave according to our different identities in different situations. We behave differently among relatives, friends, workplace colleagues,etc. Among friends, we are more easy going while among relatives we may be easy going when we are with our parents but maybe not when we are with our distant relatives.

Now comes the gender identity. Since time immemorial, men have asserted a lot of their gender identity. But it's not the case with women. Women have just now started asserting their gender identity and have started demanding their own rights. And kudos to them. Why? Because they have been suppressed for thousands of years by men. They have occupied positions that have been the least influential. Our history is full of kings fighting each other. But what about women? Well, in some wars they were treated as sex slaves of conquering armies, in some wars it was voluntary for them to suicide if a war is lost so that they may not be raped. The world history is 95% dominated by men. Wars, scientific inventions, radical ideas, religious figures, writers, poets, organization leaders, military leaders, scientists, etc. Why were women lacking behind? Especially when they have been 50% of world population? It's just because they didn't have equal rights as men. They didn't have equal status as men. Thus they didn't have equal opportunities. Now that they are demanding rights, men have become uncomfortable. Because men will lose their centuries old hold over women.

What do you guys think?
@Juggernaut_is_here @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri @Smarana Mitra

 

[Mugen]

The biggest problem with feminism is that it does not take in to account female privileges that exist and always have and only focuses on male privileges therefore they are dishonest about wanting equality.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

The biggest problem with feminism is that it does not take in to account female privileges that exist and always have and only focuses on male privileges therefore they are dishonest about wanting equality.

women have always called the shots within the home regarding the expenditure of money..at least in SOuth Asian context ..I don't know about other cultures

 

[YeBeWarned]

Modern day feminism is just like a Abusive cult .. them combine with LGBTQRSTUVWXXYZ are enough to destroy any society from within ..

 

[Mugen]

women have always called the shots within the home regarding the expenditure of money..at least in SOuth Asian context ..I don't know about other cultures

Yes, that and as you pointed out above, the sexual prowesses. Men are very vulnerable to it, and can easily be manipulated if there is no control in place, and of course this reproductive value also makes women less disposable than men hence why men are tasked with dangerous jobs/war.

 

[Dalit]

If I were an Indian I would also hate feminism. A good distraction to the rape crisis in Hindustan. Put the blame squarely on female gender.

It is hilarious how Indian male gender has suddenly turned against feminism since the rape epidemic. Surely not a coincidence.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

If I were an Indian I would also hate feminism. A good distraction to the rape crisis in Hindustan. Put the blame squarely on female gender.

It is hilarious how Indian male gender has suddenly turned against feminism since the rape epidemic. Surely not a coincidence.

Have you even cared to read what I've written. I'm actually pro feminism.

This is a 'Social Affair' and this is the closest section we have to it. I think it's OK if it stays here.

Nice of you to develop ideas and express them cogently, I'll add my two cents later.

Thanks, waiting for your inputs as well.

Modern day feminism is just like a Abusive cult .. them combine with LGBTQRSTUVWXXYZ are enough to destroy any society from within ..

Demanding rights is not an abusive cult. Men are just uncomfortable because they lose their centuries old dominance over women.

Yes, that and as you pointed out above, the sexual prowesses. Men are very vulnerable to it, and can easily be manipulated if there is no control in place, and of course this reproductive value also makes women less disposable than men hence why men are tasked with dangerous jobs/war.

Can you please elaborate on that? I didn't quite get you.

 

[H. Dawary]

Feminism is great as an idea, but that’s as far as it goes, in practice it has produced MGTOW. Just like how communism was great in paper but in practice produced mass killers.

Check out this former Soviet agent who professionalized in ideological warfare.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Men are horrified if sexual selection is driven by women...Men feel (and may be rightly so) that civilizations will collapse if women are given complete free rein in choosing mates...But if you look in a spiritual sense sexual/romantic freedom is perhaps the one freedom a woman desires the most, probably more so than economic freedom...Economic freedom is just a stepping stone to exercise sexual freedom...Why men are horrified? Because men and women see sex differently.....If you ask many sexually frigid women whether it would be a big sacrifice for them if they had to give up sex forever, they might just give an uninterested shrug...but if you ask the same women how would they feel if their right to motherhood were to be taken away for their entire life, they might protest intensely ...Sex with desirable women for men is the equivalent of desire for motherhood for women............................For a woman, the feeling of being in love is of paramount importance, that an all encompassing romantic feeling has engulfed her life...How would a woman behave if she were to have complete sexual freedom whatsoever and on top of that had moderately high sexual hormones flowing through her? look no further than Catherine the Great of Russia...She is the
prototype woman as much as the Ottoman Sultans or Genghis Khan were protoytpe men...

What's the solution?

Although I think guranteeing every male member of the tribe a virgin on the wedding night confers societal stability, but I feel it weakens the lineage and population over several generations...as men who would have never found the love of women in a free and fair Darwinian competition are unworthily rewarded...But unmitigated sexual selection controlled by women is also not the answer as most of the biological energy of men will be used up in wooing women, leading to societies like pre-colonial sub Saharan Africa

There has to be a middle ground

1) Absolutely no arranged marriage

2) Let women choose and convey romantic interest to men on their own accord

3) Have responsibly adventurous time in young adult phase

4) when it comes to marriage, choose wisely , settle down and never look back at anybody else

5) This system will lead to one child family and general reduction of population

This system is not without its fault...But it has been in the West for a 100 years and the West is still going strength to strength

The Chads get to enjoy female company earlier in life and they join sports teams, armies and become the best commandos in the world

The nerds though bereft of female adoration early on, build tech empires and in their late thirties early 40s start enjoying life (Uber Kalanick, Tesla Musk etc)

Fair system and women also have their romantic sexual pleasure---->countries also remain strong


PS:Thanks for the positive rating @jaibi
@OsmanAli98
@Indus Pakistan
@jamahir
@Nilgiri
@Vergennes

Those are really good ideas but you are talking more from a marriage point of view.

What I was trying to say basically is that people have fought for a lot of identities and it has resulted in a lot of bloodshed. An Indian will fight against a Pakistani and vice versa for their country based on their national identity. People also fight based on their religious identity. Wars have been fought over race and also wars have been fought purely based on ego as well. All these wars have been fought because people have asserted their respective identities but when talk of the people who fought, 95% would be males.

The Blacks can openly talk about their oppression at the hands of Whites. The Chinese can talk about the oppression at the hands of the Japanese before WW 2. A woman also can talk about the oppression at hands of her captor. When people talk about these oppression, the people are angry about the injustice right?

Why don't we see women talking about the centuries old male oppression? A woman can say that for hundreds of years, men treated them as just people for reproduction, nothing else. During wars, they were raped. They were given voting rights very late in many countries. They were not allowed to be educated. Basically, men would dictate what women have to do every time and women would just do what men have told them. Men would deny this but this just suppression. Men should come forward and apologize for how men have treated women just like we Indians expect an apology from the Britain. Basically, men act like how they want and they also expect women to act based on men's wishes. Isn't this unfair? Why has not even a single woman raised her voice at this injustice? The result of this centuries old domination is what? 1% female scientists? 1% female entrepenurs? Even food which can be called a women's stronghold is dominated by male chefs. If I was a woman, I would actually feel angry of man. You can't blame a woman when she talks about feminism to be honest.

Feminism is great as an idea, but that’s as far as it goes, in practice it has produced MGTOW. Just like how communism was great in paper but in practice produced mass killers.

Check out this former Soviet agent who professionalized in ideological warfare.

So you expect women to be submissive now as well? Why should women act based on men's wishes? Why not men act based on women's wishes? Tell me, do you believe in the caste system?

@Chhatrapati Your inputs would be extremely valuable as well.

 

[H. Dawary]

So you expect women to be submissive now as well? Why should women act based on men's wishes? Why not men act based on women's wishes? Tell me, do you believe in the caste system?

@Chhatrapati Your inputs would be extremely valuable as well.

I am Afghan I don’t believe in Caste... I will just leave at this, my countrymen and I will follow our beliefs and you and your countrymen can follow yours. In time we will which survives the test of time... good day.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

I am Afghan I don’t believe in Caste... I will just leave at this, my countrymen and I will follow our beliefs and you and your countrymen can follow yours. In time we will which survives the test of time... good day.

You didn't get what I meant to say. Treating women as inferior is also caste system. Treating people differently based on religion is also a form of caste system.

In time we will which survives the test of time... good day.

Umm..we are not interested in any silly competition of whose beliefs will survive the test of time. Maybe you didn't get what I wanted to say.