The Rafale vs F22 video that the web is abuzz on! From ATLC 2010.

[gambit]

Why is the pilot breathing so hard continuously?

Under high G forces. I know what on/off 9gs feels like. I also know what continuous 9gs feels like. It is not pleasant. The HUD video does not show it, but I know that tunnel vision begins at around 4-5 gs and increases as g force increases in pressure and duration. That Rafale pilot probably does not see the entire HUD at max g. You clench your guts and just about everything else on your body, to try to keep as much blood upstairs as possible. You grunt and even screams as if you are on your last rep on the squat.

 

[gambit]

Absolutely, "active cancellation"...or when the active radar signals are scrambled and deflected and similar 'artificial' frequency is sent back, the return on the radar isn't precise anymore as it mathematical calculation processor is off.
Anything fired on the object being locked or tracked will probably miss it by good few meters at the least. Something that the EFT used in an exercise was the FLIR and that seems to work better as there were no broad spectrum radio waves to scramble, it's just the IR running in sort of in a snapshot mode.

If you are talking about SPECTRA or similar, then it will be good against 3rd or 2nd tier radars, not likely against ours. The true 'active cancellation' is when the body negate the impinging radar signal under its surface, not by replicating reflected signals and altering them slightly to fool the seeking radar.

 

[dbc]

To me, this Rafale HUD video hinted at problems tracking the Raptor within visual range. Not impossible, but given how often the Raptor was not inside the aiming reticle, it seemed like the Rafale pilot had serious problems against the Raptor.

hmm... tracking problems not explained by ground clutter,target aspect,shaping, jamming or radar FOV.
Any other ideas?

 

[gambit]

hmm... tracking problems not explained by ground clutter,target aspect,shaping, jamming or radar FOV.
Any other ideas?

Errr...Sh1tty radar? The French will not like that...

 

[dbc]

Errr...Sh1tty radar? The French will not like that...

Ok I'll leave this thread now. Good luck with them Rafale fanboys.

 

[Bratva]

Under high G forces. I know what on/off 9gs feels like. I also know what continuous 9gs feels like. It is not pleasant. The HUD video does not show it, but I know that tunnel vision begins at around 4-5 gs and increases as g force increases in pressure and duration. That Rafale pilot probably does not see the entire HUD at max g. You clench your guts and just about everything else on your body, to try to keep as much blood upstairs as possible. You grunt and even screams as if you are on your last rep on the squat.

Let's take an example of rafael pilot here, how come under extreme G, he still retained his senses and manage to simulate a kill despite his attention divided due to extreme pain he is in?

Is it due to extreme and continuous trainings, veteran pilots become used to high G's and able to maintain their vision and ward off pain during high G WVR fights or veteran pilot do become victim of High G's often and lose control of their aircraft?

 

[rockstarIN]

Ok I'll leave this thread now. Good luck with them Rafale fanboys.

Well, can't be F-22 fan boys are you are not selling it(with ToT )

 

[gambit]

Let's take an example of rafael pilot here, how come under extreme G, he still retained his senses and manage to simulate a kill despite his attention divided due to extreme pain he is in?

Is it due to extreme and continuous trainings, veteran pilots become used to high G's and able to maintain their vision and ward off pain during high G WVR fights or veteran pilot do become victim of High G's often and lose control of their aircraft?

Yes, it is all about training. Of all the air forces in the world, American flyers have the most hours per month, just so you know.

Anyway...The more experience you have under high gs, the better you become at dealing with them while trying to multi-task. You will lose your vision under stress. No getting around that. So the more you train, the better you become on knowing when tunnel vision begins to occur for you because every person is slightly different, and you will learn on how to focus as your vision decreases. Knowing your aircraft's performance envelope is a great help because you will know which maneuvers and how to execute them to better deal with those high gs effects and still fight effectively.

When under gs, it may sound like the pilot is in pain but actually he is not. I felt no pain, at least not in the sense like if you sprain your ankle or cut yourself shaving. There is pressure on the body that restrict breathing and movement and that pressure increases in proportion to the rate of change commanded. You have to breath but pressure prevent you from exhale so you have to force the CO2 out, else you will intoxicate yourself, and that forceful exhale will come out as easy as a grunt or as loud as a scream, depending on the rate of change commanded and how long in the maneuver. It will be very difficult to turn your head so you should have strong shoulder and neck muscles. That is what gymnasiums are for.

A fighter pilot is very much an athlete, and more like a boxer where stresses on the body is unpredictable and inconsistent. And here is an odd part -- high blood pressure is helpful in dealing with high gs.

 

[rockstarIN]

Yes, it is all about training. Of all the air forces in the world, American flyers have the most hours per month, just so you know.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-wa...eo-web-abuzz-atlc-2010-a-2.html#ixzz2WecGy4OO

@gambit, how much hour an American Pilot flies in an year on an average?.

I read somewhere 150 hour per year is the NATO standard.

 

[Srinivas]

@gambit what is your take on Rafale locking on to F22.

In wvr TVC come in handy, in the video it seems F22 have not used the TVC.

 

[gambit]

@gambit, how much hour an American Pilot flies in an year on an average?.

I read somewhere 150 hour per year is the NATO standard.

We get at least 200 but more like 250-300.

There are great differences. Bombers and tankers fly less sorties but each sortie is much longer than fighters. Conversely, fighters averages a couple hrs per sortie but each can fly 2-3 times per week. Back in Desert Storm, it was daily. Instructors averages more than 'regular' pilots. So if a USAF F-16 pilot fly just once a week at 2-3 hrs per sortie, with 52 weeks that would be around 130-150 hrs/yr. We fly more than once a week.

@gambit what is your take on Rafale locking on to F22.

At this close range, radar lock is guaranteed for 'non-stealth' aircrafts but seems to be problematic against the Raptor. Not impossible, just problematic.

In wvr TVC come in handy, in the video it seems F22 have not used the TVC.

There is no way to tell.

 

[Srinivas]

@gambit regarding flanker's cobra maneuver

There seems to an opinion that flanker being heavy will loose altitude and at the same time there will have some drag during maneuvers like cobra.

Is there a possibility executing the cobra maneuver with speed so that there will be less drag due to momentum??

 

[Tihamah]

F-22 is the most maneuverable and the best jet fighter in the world period.

 

[gambit]

@gambit regarding flanker's cobra maneuver

There seems to an opinion that flanker being heavy will loose altitude and at the same time there will have some drag during maneuvers like cobra.

Is there a possibility executing the cobra maneuver with speed so that there will be less drag due to momentum??

You mean not lose so much speed that the aircraft loses altitude? It depends on the aircraft's speed immediately before the maneuver is executed and how long will the pilot hold that extreme nose up attitude. If your engines are powerful enough, you could theoretically hover in one spot. But we know that is not the case here. If the aircraft's speed is around TO/L, the moment he pulls that cobra maneuver, he is going to sink like a stone tossed in water.

 

[Taygibay]

Hello guys!
I'll be quick for IRL calls for lots of work today but quickly before I can come back at length :
The comments on the pilot's audible efforts already made cover it well. And yes the PAF has an excellent record for training especially in dogfight/BFM. Their presence including ATLC always carried such compliments from Western AFs.

The movements of the FSO should not be construed as important since at that distance, it is a little close for it and radar or other sensors come in too.

And the radar is not a problem but in all truth, the distance in high altitude would have favored the F-22 long beforehand.

The TVC on the Raptor is a minus at low altitudes as it degrades energy a lot to use it but then that is not where it should shine anyway.

We also miss the seconds prior to engagement to know more on conditions of it.

As for Abingdonboy, I'll comment more when possible for me but the MMRCA is a good deal for both nations. India needs it for filling in depleting squadron numbers and facing China and the French for export of course. I posted a semi-humorous piece on it in my blog :
Jet fighters : Why France should thank India. | Definitive Lapse of Reason

Good day all for now, talk to you soon.