The ‘Quetta shura’?

[koolio]

The Americans have simply lost the plot they cant control Afghanistan and then have to shift the blame to Pakistanis for thier utter failures.

If Pakistan has defeated the militants in SWAT who were recieving outside help why cant US do the same in Afghanistan.

 

[Mansanpk2009]

I feel necessary to post the contents of this article "Quetta the next Baghdad" which has appeared on articlesbase dot com that has important revelations on this alarming issue of American's assault on Balochistan's Provincial Capital.

The shameful report of US considering to begin assault on Quetta the provincial capital of the troubled Balochistan province of Pakistan has raised huge alarm for the Pakistani nation. This nation is facing the worst trauma due to American conspiracies and ugly actions. With Kerry Lugar Bill for sanction of huge Aid to Pakistan is just a sugar coated poison which Mr. Zardari and his PPP Government happily swallowed and thought that people of Pakistan are fool to accept this as their success. Not a day passed when this report of US Plans to attack Quetta came into light which is not a slap but a booted foot on the face of this democratically elected Government and toothless opposition lead by Mr. Nawaz Sharif.

Since long, USA is insisting that Osama and Mullah Omar are hiding in Pakistan. The conspiracy behind specifically targeting Quetta for this particular reason has many reasons to understand. Balochistan is facing a very potential uprising to fight for its rights and for its Independence too. Right now, due to immense and intense vigilance and actions against Baloch Nationalists and separatists, the movement seems to be dieing quickly and loosing its touch. More over the growing influence of Taliban inside south eastern part of Afghanistan has blocked the access of American and Indian aided agents to enter and create unrest inside Balochistan. To aid and to protect Baloch separatists, American and Indian coalition had no other option but to build reason for American forces to land inside this province and more specifically to Quetta which has an Army Garrison too. The charges on ISI to support Mullah Omar is clearly seen as a direct threat to the very important Army Base in Quetta. Pakistan cannot take any action inside Quetta right now because the hate for the Army is already reaching highest limits inside this province and USA knows that Pakistan is not in a position to start any operation in Quetta.

The smiling face of Mr. Zardari is telling the story that he is more interested in gathering more and more and more money from the world in the name of loyalty and compliance to the black agenda of USA. Rather than doing more, the situation now seems to me as if he is saying to America that “ask more” and the price for every compliance seems to be fixed already.

Pakistani nation is tormented and mentally paralyzed due to price hike, lack of water, electricity and in winter season the natural gas shortage is also predicted. In present circumstances when America is all set to land its forces in Pakistan, our nation will already be made mentally weak to defend itself from such a huge assault on our sovereignty.

The game plan of targeting Quetta has very deep roots. Quetta is believed to be embracing a very huge population of Pashto speaking people which is believed to be loyal to Pakistan. Although majority of Balochi people are also the supporters of Pakistan but targeting Pashtun community is the prime goal of USA. In the name of hunt for Mullah Omar, the game plan is to expel this Pashtun population out of Balochistan which is expected to be the main resistant force to stop any separatist movement in that province. To be more specific the target of probable American operation would only be the Pashtun community of Balochistan. It seems that all corners have been trimmed and all knitting of this ugly action has been completed and it must be the story of just days or weeks when we will hear that American Marines are landing in Balochistan.

It is believed to be highly criminal from the part of our Government to keep people of Quetta in dark about the situation. The magnitude of loss of lives in Quetta would be unbelievable if the city is not vacated in the next few days. The Government seems to be not interested to give any such advice right now on American orders because any havoc would make the so called targeted Taliban leaders to run with the crowd and fade away. Although it is widely believed that Taliban’s spiritual leader is not in Pakistan but in Iran but American insistence on his presence in Quetta has motives described above which is to strengthen the separatists movement in Balochistan.

In present circumstances, it becomes the duty of every Pakistani to defend our motherland and be prepared to fight hand to hand with the American Marines who would find no resistance from our Politicians, our Army, our Navy and our Air force. The attitude of the defenders of our motherland can be seen from the fact that no Drone has ever been knocked down by Pakistani Airforce and their assaults are crossing the limits every day. If the question of our sovereignty is concerned Black water, Dyn-Corp and many others are already operating inside Pakistan with free movement and access with most modern weapons allowed them to be used whenever and wherever they want. It is our people who should decide that are we ready to bow head in front of USA and become slaves again for centuries to come or we will save our motherland from the claws of opportunist politicians and leaders who are puppets of the super power and have their villas ready in offshore islands.

The assault on ISI is visible because those elements inside ISI who are safeguarding the national interest are being targeted repeatedly. There have been many changes made and many forced retirements have been seen in the most effective Intelligence Agency which are effecting negatively to the capability of this agency and may result in its subsequent dilution.

In short, people of Pakistan should be ready both mentally and bodily to accept that our days of Independence are limited now. If we really want to save it, then we should decide now or may be it will be too late to curse our weaknesses and our inability to defend our motherland.

It is now useless to see towards our leaders who are already a sold product and have no interest in saving us from the bloodshed by US Marines, the Drone attacks and they have already taken their salary for throwing us at the feet of America to become slaves not only for now but for generations to come.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Quetta Shura
​

Friday, October 02, 2009
Washington, Patterson playing good cop, bad cop?

By Mariana Baabar

ISLAMABAD: The government on Thursday expressed its ‘surprise’ at the latest volatile interview of US Ambassador Anne W Patterson and said there was clearly a “huge disconnect” between Washington and the US Embassy in Islamabad.

In the latest interview to the media, Patterson had claimed the Taliban leadership was hiding in Balochistan and coordinating anti-US operations from Quetta. After reports in the US media, including the interview of Ambassador Patterson, Deputy Chief of the Mission at the US Embassy Gerald M Feierstein told the media on Thursday that Osama bin Laden was alive and that the Taliban leadership, including Mullah Omar, was present in Quetta.

Asked to comment on these allegations, the Foreign Office spokesman told The News: “This is all very speculative. Pakistan, as the world is acknowledging, has shown zero tolerance to terrorism. The US has passed real-time intelligence to Pakistan in the past and we have acted on it. Similarly, if the US claims to have such intelligence about the Taliban activities in Quetta, then they should pass it on to us.”

Another senior official, who was privy to the New York meetings, told The News, “In meetings at the highest level in New York recently, this issue of the Quetta Shura did not arise. A passing reference was made to old reports about Balochistan but they (US participants) insisted that they could not confirm the same. No great concern was shown nor was there any mention of future strikes in Balochistan. We were asked to intensify our efforts but nothing of the sort that we are hearing from the US Embassy. There appears to be a very serious disconnect between Washington and the US Embassy here.”

Responding to a query, the official ceded this “disconnect” had been there for several years now but did not elaborate on the government’s possible response to this latest serious development. Normally, the US ambassador is summoned and a protest note handed over by the foreign secretary.

On Wednesday, another official told The News the government at the military level had already taken up the matter directly with Admiral Michael Mullen, Chairman Joint Chief of Staff, and General David Petraeus of the US Central Command. It remains to be seen how the Ministry of Foreign Affairs handles these allegations.

Quetta Shura

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And Rehman Malik confirms what Marriana Babr was told:

Quetta not on hit list: Malik​

​

Friday, October 02, 2009
ISLAMABAD: Minister for Interior Rehman Malik on Thursday rejected the news report that Quetta was on the US hit list.

“I was with President Asif Ali Zardari during his meetings in the US with Hillary Clinton, the director CIA, Holbrooke and other US dignitaries. They said nothing such like that, as there are only apprehensions that some Taliban and Mulla Omar might be in Quetta. We have categorically told them that they are not in Quetta and if they have real time information, they must give it to us and we will take action on it,” he said while talking to journalists here after the meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Interior at Nadra office. “The media reports are not true and there is no talk on the hit list,” the minister added.

Quetta not on hit list: Malik

So not only a disconnect between what Anne Patterson herself said (very little intelligence and no men on the ground) and her accusations, but also a disconnect in terms of the messages from DC and the US Embassy in Isloo.

 

[fatman17]

the quetta shura (read maulvi omar) has been relatively quiet as they dont contemplate any action against Pakistan (and thus the govt. allows them refuge) - they (shura) have also not supported any group like TTP and others who have taken up arms against the Pakistani state but now that the army has taken action against such militants and is winning the battle, and our "ally(ies)" now have nothing to complain about the "intent" and "resolve" of our army, the shura issue would now have to be brought up because the US/Nato forces who are "not winning" on their side of the border have to blame someone for their failures - thus the shura!!! - the shura is directing the afghan taliban! and since they are given "safe heaven" on our soil, we are also accused of supporting them - this will not go away soon!!!

Shoo the Shura will be the mantra henceforth!

 

[All-Green]

Afghanistan is our neighbor till the end of time, we have to tread carefully so as to avoid being seen as an enemy of Afghan people and this is complicated by the fact that the belt adjacent to Pakistan is not sympathetic to Karzai and his goons due to their distinct anti Pashtun attitude....most of the Pashtuns are more sided with Taliban in a common cause against what they see as an anti Pashtun alliance...

Whether good or bad, we have to keep this reality in mind and take future steps in view of this...

Our task should be to protect the border within the limitations encountered in performing such a task...it should also be to ensure that this border remains peaceful and not hostile to Pakistan in the long run...this is no mean feat and is very difficult...

Quetta and Chaman is the traditional trade route between Pakistan and Afghanistan...to say that Quetta is the HQ and Taliban safe haven since it is being used to reinforce the Taliban is a most stupid implication...it is one of the very few trade routes so ofcourse anything which Taliban will purchase or procure in the vicinity will most likely come from this route...on the other hand millions of Afghan depend on this channel to buy the commodities of life...it is only natural for Taliban to attempt to supply themselves via this trade...

We cannot shut down this trade both from humanitarian and from business point of view...
How can we distinguish which sack of wheat lands in which hands?
It is not our job and those who think this is something doable by Pakistan are not in a sane state of mind...

It is the job of authorities on the other side to check the goods being transported and if there is hanky panky then by sharing the information they can alert the Pakistani authorities as well who will investigate the parties responsible by tracing the shipment...

If the allegations are based on evidence of arms shipments then US must share the detailed evidence with Pakistan about the prime contact persons, the front organizations and the transporters involved in the supply effort and we shall act on the evidence...

I see such statements and then i realize that this war will end in failure if such an attitude persists...
When dealing with such a delicate situation, off the cuff remarks are extremely counterproductive...
Pakistan is a key ally and keeping in mind the sensitivities of the matter...it is essential that US stops badmouthing Pakistan like this...
such statements will not achieve anything else except turning all Pakistanis away from the US...

More maturity from US could go a long way in establishing a very stable and sustainable effort...i do not see it forthcoming and i see there are reasons for it...

US political leadership is pinning the blame elsewhere instead of openly accepting the fact that the decision to launch operations with inadequate forces was the primary reason...

To date this remains the key reason for failure...nothing else is of equal significance...with enough forces and local support they will never be defeated...in the current scenario US does not have both these factors in its favor and that is why it is not successful...whereas they can bolster their forces and address one of the key factors i have doubts about how they will gain support of the people who are siding with Taliban because of their dislike for US-Karzai alliance...for that some more radical steps need to be taken...if the practicality is considered that is...

Secondly, now that there are increasing demands of additional boots on the ground, the political leadership will want to minimize the deployment...same thing as in Iraq when the military wanted something else and the armchair generals in the political leadership provided something else...

This is classic case of politicians versus the military...usually the military calculations are precise and to the point...the politicians on the other hand are like businessmen and do a lot of haggling to get the bang for buck...in such cases the disconnect between the two is more of a deliberate attempt by the politicians to make the military see common economic and political sense...point is that military should make military sense...not a political or economic bargain...otherwise the consequences are not only a military defeat but a much larger spending on the subsequent efforts to turn the tide...

Once US has made a long term commitment then it shall not shy away from aggressive additional deployment...the highly complex situation that it is...I cannot help but smile at the irony a bit...

...reason is simple...

Additional deployment of troops is something which not only the friends and allies of US want...it is something which the enemies of US also want to take place with equal desire...

 

[fatman17]

^one example of why the US/Nato is not winning - remember the air-strike on a oil tanker recently where anywhere from 20-80 afghans were killed and wounded - well, i just happened to run into a reporter of the Times newspaper (UK) - cannot divulge his name - he has visited most of afghanistan, and gave feedback that the german soldier/officer who called-in the air-strike was not in control of his faculties (read inebriated) - there were no talibs there except local villagers who had hijacked the nato oil tanker!!! - wrong intell - bad result!!! - aint going to win hearts and minds very soon!!! - on the contrary, Gen.Kiyani made sure the govt and the people were behind the army action and it resulted in a great success!!! which the US says only "better since march" - i can bet bottom $$$ that they would love such a result in afghanistan!!!

 

[Patriot]

^one example of why the US/Nato is not winning - remember the air-strike on a oil tanker recently where anywhere from 20-80 afghans were killed and wounded - well, i just happened to run into a reporter of the Times newspaper (UK) - cannot divulge his name - he has visited most of afghanistan, and gave feedback that the german soldier/officer who called-in the air-strike was not in control of his faculties (read inebriated) - there were no talibs there except local villagers who had hijacked the nato oil tanker!!! - wrong intell - bad result!!! - aint going to win hearts and minds very soon!!! - on the contrary, Gen.Kiyani made sure the govt and the people were behind the army action and it resulted in a great success!!! which the US says only "better since march" - i can bet bottom $$$ that they would love such a result in afghanistan!!!

They're doing just what the Soviets did and they can never win in Afghanistan.

 

[waraich66]

They're doing just what the Soviets did and they can never win in Afghanistan.

Defeat of US will be worst then Russia,again stinger will play important role

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

This quetta shura thing is getting louder day by day . Maybe its an attempt by the west to transfer the war From Afghanistan to Pakistani areas which have the potential to cultivate unrest and destabilization .

 

[waraich66]

This quetta shura thing is getting louder day by day . Maybe its an attempt by the west to transfer the war From Afghanistan to Pakistani areas which have the potential to cultivate unrest and destabilization .

Your observation is right , US wanted to get direct access to indian ocean through balouchistan,Quetta shaurah is just a topi drama.

Abtedai ishaq hai routa ha kya
Aghe aghe dekh huta hai kya

 

[fatman17]

The Pakistan angle

Dawn Editorial
Friday, 09 Oct, 2009 According to Gen McChrystal’s initial assessment of the situation in Afghanistan, his demand, it is believed, is for up to 40,000 more troops to try and ‘win’ the war in Afghanistan. –Photo by Reuters/Nikola Solic World
Not Vietnam, not yet The third of five planned meetings between President Obama and his full national security team to review the US strategy in Afghanistan focused on Pakistan, and media reports suggest that the case for a ‘Pakistan first,’ counter-terrorism-oriented strategy is still being made very strongly by some US officials. The thinking behind the alternative strategy is as follows: the larger goal of the US is to prevent attacks on the homeland and its vital interests abroad; the Afghan Taliban do not pose such a threat; Al-Qaeda and associated groups which do pose such a threat can be kept on the back foot through counter-terrorism measures; therefore, the US need not commit itself to a counter-insurgency, nation-building strategy in faraway ******.

The subtext of this alternative strategy is based on several facts: the tainted presidential election in Afghanistan has undermined the government’s claim of having genuine political and moral legitimacy; casualties suffered by American troops in Afghanistan have soared in the face of a Taliban surge; and domestic public support for the war is slipping, making some in the Democratic Party skittish.

At the other end of the spectrum is Gen McChrystal’s initial assessment of the situation in Afghanistan and his demand, it is believed, for up to 40,000 more troops to try and ‘win’ the war in Afghanistan by protecting the population and ramping up the Afghan administration’s security and governance capabilities. Pakistan’s position, as believed to have been communicated by army and government officials, is closer to Gen McChrystal’s ‘stability’ strategy, but minus the troop build-up. It is not yet known which option President Obama will choose from the many alternatives that are being proposed, but several things are already clear.

First, the March mistake should not be repeated — while some argued that the Afghan strategy announced earlier was ‘flexible,’ it is clear by now that it created too much uncertainty. Wars should not be fought and cannot be won if the objectives are not clear. Second, counter-terrorism operations such as drone strikes must not be expanded inside Pakistan. Admittedly, the opposition to drone strikes in Fata has receded, or at least become less urgent, but that arguably would not apply to strikes inside Pakistan proper.

Quetta, for example, is not South Waziristan and the Afghan Taliban are not viewed as a threat the way Baitullah Mehsud’s network and Al-Qaeda are. Third, provocative ideas like ‘Pakistan first’ should be dropped. Whatever aid, and other economic support, the US may be facilitating for Pakistan, it will more than be cancelled out if the country is portrayed as a villainous protagonist.

 

[waraich66]

ISLAMABAD - The United States has reiterated that top Afghan Taliban commanders, including Mullah Omar, are hiding in Quetta and creating trouble for the US led NATO forces in Afghanistan.


Deputy chief of the US mission in Pakistan, Gerald M Feierstein, said Washington has credible information that Mullah Omar is in Quetta and ‘freely moves across the border and some other major cities of Pakistan, including Karachi.’

“We are confident that Mullah Omar is in Quetta. We do believe that these people move around, but their locus of operation is Quetta,” The Daily Times quoted Feierstein, as saying.

Feierstein also pointed out that there were ‘individuals’ in Pakistan, who are sympathetic towards Taliban and support its activities.

Commenting on the Kerry-Lugar Bill, that has witnessed wide scale protests in Pakistan, he rejected the notion that the US has attached severe conditions to the 1.5 billion dollar annual assistance.

“There is no condition attached to the bill … there is nothing in the aid bill that is against the declared policy of the government of Pakistan,” Feierstein said.

He clarified that the certification required in the bill was a routine affair.

“This sort of certification is needed for every sort of assistance US gives to foreign nations,” Feierstein added. (ANI)

What is proof that he is in Quetta ? why dont US inform PA to arrest him?

Easy solution US should put bunty of 40 bill Dollar on his head next day he will be in Washington DC white House LOL

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Washington has credible information that Mullah Omar is in Quetta

Looking forward to the US sharing that 'credible information' from a region where their Ambassador says 'they have no intelligence and few people on the ground'.

“There is no condition attached to the bill … there is nothing in the aid bill that is against the declared policy of the government of Pakistan,” Feierstein said.

And his boss Anne Patterson said:

"US Ambassador to Pakistan Anne W Patterson admitted on Thursday that clauses in the Kerry-Lugar bill regarding the Pakistan Army “are a big mistake”. Separately, the army has also forwarded its reservations over the bill to the Presidency. According to a private TV channel, Patterson said the US government had gone the extra mile to assure the government that the bill was not detrimental to Pakistan’s sovereignty, but conceded the draft of the bill was poorly written, adding the US would address the concerns of Pakistani politicians and military leadership."

Just hoping something sticks eh Feierstein.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistanis say US hoards intel on Taliban in Balochistan​

* US newspaper quotes defence official as saying intelligence provided by Karzai’s government insufficient

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Despite the country’s growing success targeting the Taliban in NWFP, the US is refusing to share intelligence with Pakistan about Al Qaeda and Afghan Taliban leaders thought to be hiding in Balochistan, The Washington Times claimed three senior Pakistani officials as saying on Monday.

According to the newspaper, the officials, two of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity, suggested that some of the blame for the failure to capture Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Omar and other Taliban leaders lies with the US.

"The CIA has not shared any actionable intelligence with the Pakistan government on Al Qaeda in Balochistan since 2006 and 2007,” the newspaper quoted a Pakistani defence official. Islamabad is pushing for more intelligence sharing after a string of terrorist attacks including a weekend strike on the General Headquarters ended with at least 19 deaths.

A suicide car bomb on Friday killed more than 50 civilians at a crowded market in Peshawar, and an attack on a UN office a week ago killed five aid workers.

Insufficient: The official said that “dated intelligence delivered by Afghan President Hamid Karzai to Pakistan months ago” that Al Qaeda leaders and the Taliban leadership led by Mullah Omar were in Quetta, is too “flimsy to act on”.

“Now the US intelligence says that Al Qaeda is holed up in Quetta,” the newspaper quoted the official. “Has any US intelligence agency given us any actionable intelligence with Pakistan? No. This is only talk,” he added. There have been concerns that the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) still contains sympathisers with the Afghan Taliban, the newspaper said.

In a recent assessment of the Afghanistan war that was leaked to the press, Gen Stanley McChrystal noted reports that ties remain between the ISI and the Afghan Taliban, something that Islamabad denies.

Asked about the situation in Quetta, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told reporters and editors at The Times last week the US must trust Pakistan for the fight against terrorism to succeed.

“If you are working for a common objective, the more you share real-time intelligence, the more effective your operations will be,” he said.

“We consider the US to be a friend and we want to be friends,” Qureshi said. “But we want to be equal friends. We want to be friends with a common objective. You’ve got to trust us; only then will we trust you,” he added.

Later, he told the US Council on Foreign Relations, “We have no liking for the Quetta Shura and what it stands for. Collectively we can do a better job. We will have to build a relationship of trust and confidence. If you keep doubting our intentions and we keep doubting your intentions, then where is this partnership going?”

The Washington Times quoted a senior US counter-terrorism official as saying the US took “exception to the notion that information on the Quetta Shura hadn’t been shared with the government of Pakistan”.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, added that “on matters related to terrorism, there is regular information sharing with the Pakistanis at all levels of their government”. The Pakistani defence official said Islamabad had the military and intelligence capabilities in Quetta that could target terrorists with US help.

Although US drone attacks have been increasingly successful, US officials say, Pakistani militants whose groups were supported by the ISI in the past are helping Al Qaeda recruit new operatives.

A US defence official said that the ISI may “have lost enormous control over” these organisations.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

================

"The Washington Times quoted a senior US counter-terrorism official as saying the US took “exception to the notion that information on the Quetta Shura hadn’t been shared with the government of Pakistan”.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, added that “on matters related to terrorism, there is regular information sharing with the Pakistanis at all levels of their government”."

The US CT official 'took exception' to the argument that the US has not provided any new information to Pakistan on the alleged Quetta Shura, but note also that the official avoids answering the question itself, resorting to a very vague 'there is regular information sharing with the Pakistanis at all levels of their government'.