The Myth of Bharat

[Bang Galore]

After the victory it was mentioned that they crossed the Indus river to do some rituals. I read it some where and I will post the link once I get it.

Unlikely. I'm not aware of any mention. Neither Mandalas 3(Vishwamitras) or 7(Vashistas) which are the two that are connected to King Sudas mention the Sindhu.

 

[Srinivas]

Unlikely. I'm not aware of any mention. Neither Mandalas 3(Vishwamitras) or 7(Vashistas) which are the two that are connected to King Sudas mention the Sindhu.

Parsuni is river Ravi not Beas !

I will post the link ... soon !!

 

[Shoaib Aziz]

Ummm ..... I don't have clear answer .
But one thing is sure ,
South Asian civilization originated from the Fertile lands of United Punjab . Barathas were living somewhere in United Punjab .



Rig Veda written between 1700 BCE to 1200 BCE . Talks about Battle of 10 Kings . Baratha Tribe were one of those

I know about that and timelines of Rigveda and other evolutionary milestones in Hinduism. Punjab was basically an advanced civilization and, as it happens, their life style and culture dominated others around them. It includes their religion, from which modern Hinduism is derived, and their language Sanskrit affected every language of this region. But that's not my point.

Sir Gee, I believe in God, Allah, Ishwara! and I believe He is above the narrow mindedness of declaring a part of land to be preserved. I am trying to pinpoint those who actually did this. My findings till now say, its Mauryans. I could be wrong and that's why I am discussing.

 

[Bang Galore]

Parsuni is river Ravi not Beas !

I will post the link ... soon !!

You are right, it is Ravi, I intended to mention Vipas(Beas) (Vishwamitra mentions the westward movement of the Bharatas over the Sutudri &Vipas )in a longer argument which I then cut down and kept the wrong name. Thanks. Corrected.

 

[Abotani]

Here we have, a whole bunch of people suffering from the same cognitive disability, all at once! Or perhaps, an innate tendency to deviate from what's being discussed, when what's being discussed doesn't suit one's narrative. My point is, my point is, my point is.... the myth of Bharatvarsha was concocted during the Maurya Empire, I ain't talking about King Bharat of Rigveda. A typical case of religio-political indoctrination for personal ends. On the other hand, you could disagree with me and elaborate on how your gods destined Bharta. Also clarify whether it was done before or after the Big Bang!

This is what happens when people use fairy tales/myths as history or rather to make up for the lack of it.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

I know about that and timelines of Rigveda and other evolutionary milestones in Hinduism. Punjab was basically an advanced civilization and, as it happens, their life style and culture dominated others around them. It includes their religion, from which modern Hinduism is derived, and their language Sanskrit affected every language of this region. But that's not my point.

Sir Gee, I believe in God, Allah, Ishwara! and I believe He is above the narrow mindedness of declaring a part of land to be preserved. I am trying to pinpoint those who actually did this. My findings till now say, its Mauryans. I could be wrong and that's why I am discussing.

Before Mauryans , there were 16 Kingdom known as Mahajanpadas . After Mauryans , came the Golden age under Guptas . So Anyone of those can be the possible answer .
The seed of Bharat may be sown by Mahajanpadas which became a seedling under Mauryans and Finally evolved into full grown tree by the Coming of Guptas .

But that is just a guess . The further we go in the past , the lesser the content .
Mahajanapada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bang Galore]

. My point is, my point is, my point is.... the myth of Bharatvarsha was concocted during the Maurya Empire,

Only works if your argument is that the Mahabharata dates to the Mauryan times. Most people would disagree.

 

[Shoaib Aziz]

As with the rest of the OP, big exaggeration. The Rg Veda does mentions areas of Pakistan but the heart of it is still situated in Haryana+Eastern UP belt.

Thats desperate I should say. The Sapta Sandhu, the land of seven rivers, the Rigveda calls it. Satluj, Beas, Ravi, Chenab, Jehlum, Sindh and River Swat, 5 of them are in Pakistan and you are saying the heart of it was in Haryana. You can appreciate something without laying a claim to it. Grow up a little may be.

Nice
So make sure no nutjob blows up this place As we value it for both reasons

Indus Valley civilization has nothing to do with any religion in practice today.

Only works if your argument is that the Mahabharata dates to the Mauryan times. Most people would disagree.

Sir Gee, Time of Mahabharata is also around 4 BC. On the other hand, there is a possibility that someone after Mauryans invented this myth.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Thats desperate I should say. The Sapta Sandhu, the land of seven rivers, the Rigveda calls it. Satluj, Beas, Ravi, Chenab, Jehlum, Sindh and River Swat, 5 of them are in Pakistan and you are saying the heart of it was in Haryana. You can appreciate something without laying a claim to it. Grow up a little may be.


Indus Valley civilization has nothing to do with any religion in practice today.


Sir Gee, Time of Mahabharata is also around 4 BC. On the other hand, there is a possibility that someone after Mauryans invented this myth.

Whether u believe it or not , its up to U .

We trace our cultural and religious origins with Indus Valley .

 

[Shoaib Aziz]

Whether u believe it or not , its up to U .

We trace our cultural and religious origins with Indus Valley .

It has been discussed at length in other threads. Excavations revealed, that people of Indus valley didn't worship the gods of modern Hinduism, Shiva or Krishna. They ate beaf, wrote from right to left and their culture declined before Rigvedic village culture of Punjab. Arguments of continuity of culture are rather weak. Anyway, both Rigvedic & Indus Valley are parts of ancient history of Pakistan which spread in South and parts of Central Asia. The impact of our culture was so strong in South Asia that they started identifying themselves after our land that is Sindh, Hindh, Hindustan or India. Another example of such profound impact was of Islam and Arab culture on North Africa who now all speak Arabic and are part of Arab League.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

It has been discussed at length in other threads. Excavations revealed, that people of Indus valley didn't worship the gods of modern Hinduism, Shiva or Krishna. They ate beaf, wrote from right to left and their culture declined before Rigvedic village culture of Punjab. Arguments of continuity of culture are rather weak. Anyway, both Rigvedic & Indus Valley are parts of ancient history of Pakistan which spread in South and parts of Central Asia. The impact of our culture was so strong in South Asia that they started identifying themselves after our land that is Sindh, Hindh, Hindustan or India. Another example of such profound impact was of Islam and Arab culture on North Africa who now all speak Arabic and are part of Arab League.

Adam and Eve lived much before Torah , Bible and Quran got written down .

After the extinction of IVC , many cultures and practices also got extinct . Those who survived the hammer of Time , evolved into what we see in South Asia . Fire alters are present in IVC , Male god and Female god figurines . Well they are pretty much similar to my culture of 1 male and 1 female god with Fire worship/ritual etc .

Vedas were oral tradition much like others . With the development of Written script , They were put down latter .

, SO what they ate Beef ( many of us still eat beef ), So what if they didn't worshiped modern day Gods . Change is in nature . Those who change with time , evolve and survive . Those who don't are lost in the pages of history .

It has been discussed at length in other threads. Excavations revealed, that people of Indus valley didn't worship the gods of modern Hinduism, Shiva or Krishna. They ate beaf, wrote from right to left and their culture declined before Rigvedic village culture of Punjab. Arguments of continuity of culture are rather weak. Anyway, both Rigvedic & Indus Valley are parts of ancient history of Pakistan which spread in South and parts of Central Asia. The impact of our culture was so strong in South Asia that they started identifying themselves after our land that is Sindh, Hindh, Hindustan or India. Another example of such profound impact was of Islam and Arab culture on North Africa who now all speak Arabic and are part of Arab League.

You must have read this

This Garuda-standard of Vāsudeva, the God of Gods
was erected here by the devotee Heliodoros,
the son of Dion, a man of Taxila,
sent by the Great Yona King
Antialkidas, as ambassador to
King Kasiputra Bhagabhadra, the Savior
son of the princess from Varanasi, in the fourteenth year of his reign.

Sir Gee, Time of Mahabharata is also around 4 BC. On the other hand, there is a possibility that someone after Mauryans invented this myth.

Time Line of Lord Krishna Supported by Science

 

[Shoaib Aziz]

After the extinction of IVC , many cultures and practices also got extinct . Those who survived the hammer of Time , evolved into what we see in South Asia ......

, SO what they ate Beef ( many of us still eat beef ), So what if they didn't worshiped modern day Gods . Change is in nature . Those who change with time , evolve and survive . Those who don't are lost in the pages of history .

My point

 

[Viny]

Before Mauryans , there were 16 Kingdom known as Mahajanpadas . After Mauryans , came the Golden age under Guptas . So Anyone of those can be the possible answer .
The seed of Bharat may be sown by Mahajanpadas which became a seedling under Mauryans and Finally evolved into full grown tree by the Coming of Guptas .

But that is just a guess . The further we go in the past , the lesser the content .
Mahajanapada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quoting from Markandey Purana

Kraustuki asked Markandeya- 'O lord! Please describe about Bharatavarsha.' Markandeya replied- 'Bharatavarsha is surrounded by oceans on all its three sides. People living towards the east of Bharatavarsha are known as Kirat while people living towards the west are called Yavan. The central part of Bharatavarsha is inhabited by all the four castes- Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. The seven mountains are situated in the central part of Bharatavarsha. They are Mahendra, Malaya, Sahaya, Shaktiman, Riksh, Vindhya and Pariyatra. There are thousands of hills situated in the vicinity of these seven mountains. The central part of Bharatavarsha is sub-divided into Janpadas. The residents of these Janpadas are known as Mlechha and Arya. All the major rivers of Bharatavarsha like Ganga, Saraswati, Sindhu, Chandrabhaga, Yamuna, Shatadru, Vitasta, Irawati, Gomti, Vipasha and Gandki etc. originate from the mountains situated in the central parts. The names of the prominent Janpadas situated in the central part of Bharatavarsha are Matsya, Ashwakoot, Kulya, Kuntal, Kashi, Koshal, Arbuda, Kalinga, Malak, Vrik etc. River Godavari flows towards the north of Sahya Mountain.

A city named Govardhan is situated near this mountain. Some other prominent places situated in the vicinity of this mountain are Bahalik, Vataghan, Amir and Kaltoyak. Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudras live in the following states- Shudra, Pahalav, Charmakhandika, Gandhar, Yavan, Sindhu, Sauveer, Bhadrak, Shatadruj, Parad and Kekaya. The following states are situated in the north of Bharatavarsha- Tamas, Hansmarg, Kashmir, Shulik, Kuhak, Urna, Darva etc. States like Abhrarak, Mudgarak, Antagiri, Plawang, Mal, Damal, Vartik, Uttarbrahma, Pragjyotish, Madra, Videha, Tamraliptak, Malla and Magadh are situated in the east of Bharatavarsha. States situated in the south of Bharatavarsha are Pandya, Kerala, Chola, Maharashtra, Mahishik, Kalinga and Amir. These are the Janpadas where Shabar live.'

'Janpadas situated in the west of Bharatavarsha are Suryarak, Kalibala, Durg, Kaha, Pulind, Toshal and Koshal etc.

It has been discussed at length in other threads. Excavations revealed, that people of Indus valley didn't worship the gods of modern Hinduism, Shiva or Krishna. They ate beaf, wrote from right to left and their culture declined before Rigvedic village culture of Punjab. Arguments of continuity of culture are rather weak. Anyway, both Rigvedic & Indus Valley are parts of ancient history of Pakistan which spread in South and parts of Central Asia. The impact of our culture was so strong in South Asia that they started identifying themselves after our land that is Sindh, Hindh, Hindustan or India. Another example of such profound impact was of Islam and Arab culture on North Africa who now all speak Arabic and are part of Arab League.

Aziz, I would be interested in knowing more about your findings in relate to writing from right to left and other findings in regard to IVC, because its sounds more like giving a green color to facts.
IVC script is more of pictorial representation or so called logo-syllabic which make up sentences and it can be at times read or written bidirectionally and at times boustrophedon. Also IVC is far from any form of Abramic base as per findings.

Leaving aside the english history that we read, most of the civilizations will have there own traditional history writeups, be it chinese, turkish or be it egyptians which will go 100s to 1000s of year before BC. Whats interesting to note is there are many times common connections and sometimes overlaping connections in these stories. Getting a written history notes from BC era is very difficult so connecting civilizations based on written evidences that came in later part will be hard, but more convincing way to connect is to relate the day to day practices and objects in use with later part of history.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Lol. How this thread is belong to 'Pakistan history section'??

 

[Shoaib Aziz]

Aziz, I would be interested in knowing more about your findings in relate to writing from right to left and other findings in regard to IVC, because its sounds more like giving a green color to facts.
IVC script is more of pictorial representation or so called logo-syllabic which make up sentences and it can be at times read or written bidirectionally and at times boustrophedon. Also IVC is far from any form of Abramic base as per findings.

Leaving aside the english history that we read, most of the civilizations will have there own traditional history writeups, be it chinese, turkish or be it egyptians which will go 100s to 1000s of year before BC. Whats interesting to note is there are many times common connections and sometimes overlaping connections in these stories. Getting a written history notes from BC era is very difficult so connecting civilizations based on written evidences that came in later part will be hard, but more convincing way to connect is to relate the day to day practices and objects in use with later part of history.

It was not my intention to give it the green color. No, its not. Findings on the excavations of Indus valley are available for reference. I do not have privileges to post a link but you could look for them. I do not intend to make a point with that. My stance and the accepted stance world wide is that the history belongs to the land and its people and not to a religion. Vedic Culture and IVC both belong to the people of Pakistan, though it was not called Pakistan then. Just as the Greece of Aristotle and Alexander belongs to the people of modern Greece, though it was not called Greece then and despite the people of Greece now follow an Abrahmic religion.