The Muslim World | Medusa's Wreck!

[Hiptullha]

Really? You want an article or a study on how colonialism screwed Africa?

And I thought I was high!!!

My first paragraph was a response to your first paragraph...

Really? You want an article or a study demonstrating how colonialism screwed Africa?

And I thought I was high!!!

Let's start you up with this:


BBC NEWS | Africa | Rwanda: How the genocide happened

My first paragraph was a response to your first paragraph.

 

[cyphercide]

My first paragraph was a response to your first paragraph...

Sure. I can cite a source for that as well, Alan Krueger is pretty well known:

Princeton Economist Says Lack of Civil Liberties, Not Poverty, Breeds Terrorism

 

[Hiptullha]

Sure. I can cite a source for that as well, Alan Krueger is pretty well known:

Princeton Economist Says Lack of Civil Liberties, Not Poverty, Breeds Terrorism

>No sources
>No citations

Ok.

I always found that children in the West or ones who are quite privileged are usually guilted into following the more extremist doctrines. Nadeem F Paracha has written about this in several articles and how it's easy to go from completely left to right. I could link a couple of articles. Forgive me for not mentioning that.
The brunt of militant fighters, however, aren't rich Western kids. What about the Taliban and ISIS footsoldiers? Are they all owners of a PhD?

 

[VCheng]

I agree with you, a political co-operation like EU, an economic co-operation like EEC and a defense co-operation like NATO will be serve the purpose well.

That can happen only if individual nation states contemplating such unions are themselves strong, developed and enlightened in their own rights first.

 

[cyphercide]

>No sources
>No citations

Ok.

I always found that children in the West or ones who are quite privileged are usually guilted into following the more extremist doctrines. Nadeem F Paracha has written about this in several articles and how it's easy to go from completely left to right. I could link a couple of articles. Forgive me for not mentioning that.
The brunt of militant fighters, however, aren't rich Western kids. What about the Taliban and ISIS footsoldiers? Are they all owners of a PhD?

?

I just gave you a source. You can rummage through Alan Krueger's Princeton site for specifics.


Of course, not every ISIS member is researching a thesis paper on astrophysics in his free time. But many, especially western immigrants, are educated and are from middle class families. It's probable that Islamist funding networks(Hawala) grooms and sends them over to the conflict zone.


European jihadists form ISIS brigades in Syria - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

German ISIS Supporters Started a Jihadist Social Media Campaign | VICE United States

ISIS chief confirms Indians could be part of insurgent group - Hindustan Times

Let's not pretend that these are impoverished migrants leading a hand-to-mouth existence.

 

[haha]

The dichotomy in that statement is that if "the Muslim world" finally evolve, then there would be no Muslim world.

Oil is the misfortune of the Muslim world. Its energy gives them a notion that societies can operate by Prescription alone. Actually societies have a need for Discovery. Internal and external situations do not follow a preset pattern and a process of adjustments is needed that produces new solutions. The energy of oil, suitably manipulated by their arch rivals the Americans, has got them into a High. They appear to live in a typical American made comic book world of wishful thinking about powerful princes destroying the big bad guys to purify the world for ever after. They are unstable but in a state of Denial about the urgent need to change internally. Learning is essential for every society, but the dream of an ideal Muslim World has made it extra difficult for them to learn. Letting go of a dream is painful and sad, but that is what they might have to do if the Muslim is to actually get to dominate the whole World.

 

[Hiptullha]

?

I just gave you a source. You can rummage through Alan Krueger's Princeton site for specifics.


Of course, not every ISIS member is researching a thesis paper on astrophysics in his free time. But many, especially western immigrants, are educated and are from middle class families. It's probable that Islamist funding networks(Hawala) grooms and sends them over to the conflict zone.


European jihadists form ISIS brigades in Syria - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

German ISIS Supporters Started a Jihadist Social Media Campaign | VICE United States

ISIS chief confirms Indians could be part of insurgent group - Hindustan Times

Let's not pretend that these are impoverished migrants leading a hand-to-mouth existence.

There are people of all kinds out there. There won't be one exact type of terrorist will there? You can't claim because of a few examples, that now extremists aren't influenced by poverty. The majority are.

Alan Krueger isn't on the Princeton site. Instead, I'm re-directed to a "Page Not Found".

 

[Zabaniyah]

I still see it that way now. You have your opinion based on whatever you think, and I have mine based on facts I know, read my other posts on this thread, you might get an idea about now and the future of the Muslim world.
What I have added to the conversation is my optimistic view, that you couldn't see. I lived in the NL and I know their mentality and their Anti-Muslim propaganda.
The gesture is much welcomed from all sides. Can't you offer your support instead.?

Yes practical applications at least in economy, technology and education can be warranted by this fellowship.

Are you certain you understand the depth of the issues that stand against that ideal? I don't think that applies to those European right wingers. In fact, their personal opinions do not warrant any attention.

Yes, that is a good point. The concept of ummah as a loosely defined fellowship is perfectly fine. Recall the the Quran also says that tribes and groups were created amongst men so that we could recognize each other. Thus, there need not be complete political or economic homogenization for this fellowship to hold true. There need not be a single Caliph for all the various groups and tribes, and by extension in the present day era, nations.

The original idea was simply to unite the various Arab tribes under one band so that they can form their own empire. As Islam reached far-away shores, that idea became less ideal over time throughout history. I don't see how this can be applied today.

Another thing is that the country would be too big to manage even if it were to become a reality. Dreams aside, I don't see any "facts" from the proponents of this idea in regards to researching and applying this in the realms of political science. Is there even such a thing even?

 

[VCheng]

The original idea was simply to unite the various Arab tribes under one band so that they can form their own empire. As Islam reached far-away shores, that idea became less ideal over time throughout history. I don't see how this can be applied today.
Another thing is that the country would be too big to manage even if it were to become a reality. Dreams aside, I don't see any "facts" from the proponents of this idea in regards to researching and applying this in the realms of political science. Is there even such a thing even?

A loose union might be possible in this day and age, but the romanticized notion of a single Ummah led by a Caliph is just a dream that some people espouse without critical thinking.

 

[The SC]

Are you certain you understand the depth of the issues that stand against that ideal? I don't think that applies to those European right wingers. In fact, their personal opinions do not warrant any attention.



The original idea was simply to unite the various Arab tribes under one band so that they can form their own empire. As Islam reached far-away shores, that idea became less ideal over time throughout history. I don't see how this can be applied today.

Another thing is that the country would be too big to manage even if it were to become a reality. Dreams aside, I don't see any "facts" from the proponents of this idea in regards to researching and applying this in the realms of political science. Is there even such a thing even?

Any one of the issues can be countred by the will of the people to achieve a Muslim union, The foudations are there, where the Muslim world exists.
There are many scholarly works done on most of the issues involved.

 

[notsuperstitious]

See first paragraph.

The pan islamist religious spark behind the riots can not be ignored. While the untold vandalism slavery and slaughter by muslum rulers in india is dismissed as political by muslim apologists now for mopilla riots you are offering socio economic reasons.

Fact is there is too much call to violence in islam, too much us vs them, too much political imperialism, too many examples by the perfect man of force and murder and idol breaking... i know i know always with some impossibly esoteric explanation only good for an a academic apology... THAT is the problem.

 

[user1]

That can happen only if individual nation states contemplating such unions are themselves strong, developed and enlightened in their own rights first.

Let me remind you that when those individual nation states were strong, developed and 'enlightened' (with half the world abused and enslaved by them), then they did not come together and make a Union. Instead they went to wars - World Wars I & II and even then this Union (European Union) has not been brought by some internal incentives but it was thrust upon them from the external factors - an overarching fear of Communism and the hegemonic United States which imposed it's will in the form of United Nations, Marshall Plan, Bretton Woods Accord and NATO. Do I need to tell you that how many of these enlightened nations have US bases on their lands?

 

[VCheng]

Let me remind you that when those individual nation states were strong, developed and 'enlightened' (with half the world abused and enslaved by them), then they did not come together and make a Union. Instead they went to wars - World Wars I & II and even then this Union (European Union) has not been brought by some internal incentives but it was thrust upon them from the external factors - an overarching fear of Communism and the hegemonic United States which imposed it's will in the form of United Nations, Marshall Plan, Bretton Woods Accord and NATO. Do I need to tell you that how many of these enlightened nations have US bases on their lands?

However you spin this process, please do note that religion had nothing to do with it. Similarly, Muslim majority countries will come together or not based on these other considerations, and never on the basis of Islam.

 

[user1]

However you spin this process, please do note that religion had nothing to do with it. Similarly, Muslim majority countries will come together or not based on these other considerations, and never on the basis of Islam.

This may be just your understanding, but, at this point in the history there is already an existential threat present to the whole Muslim heartland in the form of Neo-Cons and their New World Order. If Muslim nations get together it would definitely be in response to that external threat and when they get united, they will identify it as an Islamic Unity.

Now don't tell me that nobody can stand up to The Superpower. US came to Afghanistan with the agenda to make Pipelines (TAPI for example) and is leaving - humiliated - without achieving it's goals.

 

[VCheng]

This may be just your understanding, but, at this point in the history there is already an existential threat present to the whole Muslim heartland in the form of Neo-Cons and their New World Order. If Muslim nations get together it would definitely be in response to that external threat and when they get united, they will identify it as an Islamic Unity.

Now don't tell me that nobody can stand up to The Superpower. US came to Afghanistan with the agenda to make Pipelines (TAPI for example) and is leaving - humiliated - without achieving it's goals.

Sure, I would welcome any practical demonstration of this Muslim unity that you describe rather than mere rhetoric.