The Muslim World | Medusa's Wreck!

[Hiptullha]

The pan islamist religious spark behind the riots can not be ignored. While the untold vandalism slavery and slaughter by muslum rulers in india is dismissed as political by muslim apologists now for mopilla riots you are offering socio economic reasons.

Fact is there is too much call to violence in islam, too much us vs them, too much political imperialism, too many examples by the perfect man of force and murder and idol breaking... i know i know always with some impossibly esoteric explanation only good for an a academic apology... THAT is the problem.

What?
The slavery and slaughter by Muslim rulers is religious, but by other people, the slavery and slaughter is political?
It's amazing how you'll go far out of your depth to name anything violent committed by Muslims as Islam-influenced.
Do you think that the Spanish invasion of South America, which was also done in the name of religion and to spread Christianity to the 'savages", Christian? The West had colonized many empires in an attempt to bring Christianity and civilization to the "savages". Was this also Christian?

 

[notsuperstitious]

What?
The slavery and slaughter by Muslim rulers is religious, but by other people, the slavery and slaughter is political?
It's amazing how you'll go far out of your depth to name anything violent committed by Muslims as Islam-influenced.
Do you think that the Spanish invasion of South America, which was also done in the name of religion and to spread Christianity to the 'savages", Christian? The West had colonized many empires in an attempt to bring Christianity and civilization to the "savages". Was this also Christian?

The religious extremism by christians is well documented. Heck their longest running inquisition ran in india and ive written abt it on this very forum.

Why are you in denial about christian extremism too... because you do not wish to acknowledge the progress they have done regarding that?

 

[Hiptullha]

The religious extremism by christians is well documented. Heck their longest running inquisition ran in india and ive written abt it on this very forum.

Why are you in denial about christian extremism too... because you do not wish to acknowledge the progress they have done regarding that?

Wait...you think the Spanish invasion can be termed Christian?
....
I need to sit down for a second.

 

[Vinod2070]

What?
The slavery and slaughter by Muslim rulers is religious, but by other people, the slavery and slaughter is political?
It's amazing how you'll go far out of your depth to name anything violent committed by Muslims as Islam-influenced.
Do you think that the Spanish invasion of South America, which was also done in the name of religion and to spread Christianity to the 'savages", Christian? The West had colonized many empires in an attempt to bring Christianity and civilization to the "savages". Was this also Christian?

OK, so if Christians kaffirs also committed vicious crimes in the name of their religion, does it take away from the violence and barbarity committed by Muslims in the name of Islam?

From the massive rapine, genocide, slavery, destruction of entire civilizations and cultures?

And it takes away nothing from claims if being "peaceful and tolerant" and "final and perfect"?

Anyway we have seen that these terms mean something different for you folks than what one would normally assume.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Any one of the issues can be countred by the will of the people to achieve a Muslim union, The foudations are there, where the Muslim world exists.
There are many scholarly works done on most of the issues involved.

The scholars can write up anything they want. A theory is different from practice.

The thing that I'm trying to say here is that organizations like the WTO, IMF, WB and the UN are all dominated by the West. Oil, and other resources of the Muslim World are traded primarily in American dollars with New York as the heart and the capital of the financial world. It is through this networking that America is the super power it is today. At least, part of the reason Without those, they would been goners a long time ago. It's not just military and economic strength that counts here. Add that to the power of science and technology (though, not as much as they should have by now). Also, there are several poor Muslim countries like Bangladesh.

Even if the Muslim World tries to get out of that dependency on the Western system, they will try to stop it. We all saw what happened in Iraq and elsewhere.

It's not establishing brotherly relations that is the hard part. The hard part is getting out of that system, and set oneself on a path to self-determination as one.

 

[The SC]

The scholars can write up anything they want. A theory is different from practice.

The thing that I'm trying to say here is that organizations like the WTO, IMF, WB and the UN are all dominated by the West. Oil, and other resources of the Muslim World are traded primarily in American dollars with New York as the heart and the capital of the financial world. It is through this networking that America is the super power it is today. At least, part of the reason Without those, they would been goners a long time ago. It's not just military and economic strength that counts here. Add that to the power of science and technology (though, not as much as they should have by now). Also, there are several poor Muslim countries like Bangladesh.

Even if the Muslim World tries to get out of that dependency on the Western system, they will try to stop it. We all saw what happened in Iraq and elsewhere.

It's not establishing brotherly relations that is the hard part. The hard part is getting out of that system, and set oneself on a path to self-determination as one.

I agree with you. All I am saying is that it has to start from somewhere, and the best somewhere I could find is what i have stated previously.

 

[Zabaniyah]

I agree with you. All I am saying is that it has to start from somewhere, and the best somewhere I could find is what i have stated previously.

We can certainly start from somewhere. With the amount of money, effort and the politics that went on behind Israel's claim of the Holy Land, they could have possibly colonized space by now. Only if they weren't so narrow-minded.

America is not the ideal nation for humanity to follow. Just imagine the amount of resources needed to satisfy the appetite of the US consumer market. Now add that to the entire world. Just imagine. America is a baby nation compared to let's say.....Iran. All empires have an expiry date. And that's the reason behind all those global organizations like WTO. And what proportion of American teens actually, and really study?

They have their weaknesses.

All we need to do is think upward. Expand our horizons. What the scholars present is not enough. A more pro-active and low-profile approach is needed. And we seriously need to address the problems in the Muslim World ourselves rather than allowing non-Muslim blocs to settle them for us. That was our biggest mistake.

The remedy, and its effects will take time.

 

[Hiptullha]

OK, so if Christians kaffirs also committed vicious crimes in the name of their religion, does it take away from the violence and barbarity committed by Muslims in the name of Islam?

From the massive rapine, genocide, slavery, destruction of entire civilizations and cultures?

And it takes away nothing from claims if being "peaceful and tolerant" and "final and perfect"?

Anyway we have seen that these terms mean something different for you folks than what one would normally assume.

I never said that, nig nog.
Read my other posts.

Oh and this "massive rapine, genocide, slavery, destruction of entire civilizations, and cultures."

NEWSFLASH. This has happened EVERYWHERE throughout history.

 

[MadeintheUSA]

I've been saying this for years. The Islamic world combined has more geopolitical and diplomatic power and influence than anyone else in the world, maybe apart from the sole superpower America. Not only do they control the vast majority of the world's energy resources, but they also have control over the most important geostrategic regions in the world (the Middle East and Central Asia).

It is such a shame that all this power goes wasted, due to disunity and infighting.

And it doesn't have to be that way. Look at China during our Century of Humiliation, or during our Warlord era... nobody back then believed that we had a chance to be anything except the "Sick man of Asia". Hundreds of millions of Chinese died during this period, not just to foreign invasion but also due to our own Civil wars.

But we are now in the information era, and thus the Muslim world has the tools and ability to avoid our fate. Like China, the Islamic world is a "sleeping giant", but I do not think it will take two centuries for them to wake up. It might only take a few decades, if the will is there.

And unlike China, the Islamic world already has the power. The power is already there, it is just waiting for someone to come along and realize it.

I'm curious having read many of your posts here, why do you digress from the obvious and always compare china to the obvious distinction, namely the Muslim world here?

The MUSLIM world is first and always about being MUSLIMS and not country i.e. religion first. The Chinese history was not, thus having a chance to be corrected.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I'm curious having read many of your posts here, why do you digress from the obvious and always compare china to the obvious distinction, namely the Muslim world here?

The MUSLIM world is first and always about being MUSLIMS and not country i.e. religion first. The Chinese history was not, thus having a chance to be corrected.

Nation states (modern countries) are a relatively new paradigm.

In history, what united us was having a shared Chinese civilization.

I'm loyal to the Nation state of China (PRC), because it is the modern representative of the Chinese civilization. In fact my true loyalty is to the Chinese civilization itself, the nation state is just its modern incarnation.

Similarly, Muslims also share a common civilization and culture. Sure, there are differences across regions, like there are regional differences between Shanghainese and Cantonese. But at their heart they are both Chinese.

Similarly, two Muslims in different parts of the world, at their heart they are both Muslims. It is their primary and overarching identity.

So, they certainly have the potential bring their civilization into a modern form, like what we did with the Nation state. Though for them, some sort of political/regional union would be much more likely.

Would this be a good thing for China? If you read @kalu_miah's theories about the Muslim world joining with America against China/Russia/BRICS, then probably not.

But it would be a good thing for them, and that's what we are talking about here. Strength protects sovereignty, and they have the right to try and achieve it for themselves.

Plus, I believe they will see it in their best interests to take a more neutral stance towards China (insane theories aside), and towards every other major power as well. Which would contribute to our goal of achieving a more multi-polar world.

 

[MadeintheUSA]

Nation states (modern countries) are a relatively new paradigm.

In history, what united us was having a shared Chinese civilization.

I'm loyal to the Nation state of China (PRC), because it is the modern representative of the Chinese civilization. In fact my true loyalty is to the Chinese civilization itself, the nation state is just its modern incarnation.

Similarly, Muslims also share a common civilization and culture. Sure, there are differences across regions, like there are regional differences between Shanghainese and Cantonese. But at their heart they are both Chinese.

Similarly, two Muslims in different parts of the world, at their heart they are both Muslims. It is their primary and overarching identity.

So, they certainly have the potential bring their civilization into a modern form, what we did with the Nation state. Though for them, some sort of political/regional union would be much more likely.

Would this be a good thing for China? If you read @kalu_miah's theories about the Muslim world joining with America against China/Russia/BRICS, then probably not.

But it would be a good thing for them, and that's what we are talking about here. Strength protects sovereignty, and they have the right to try and achieve it for themselves.

Plus, I believe they will see it in their best interests to take a more neutral stance towards China, and towards every other major power as well. Which would contribute to our goal of achieving a more multi-polar world.

Have you got a good understanding of what the majority of the Muslim world sees as joining together? This is not an economic based alliance rather alliance to spread Islamic law and rules by their religion. Fortunately, they are too busy killing each other, allowing the civilized nationsto keep their guns dry for now.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Have you got a good understanding of what the majority of the Muslim world sees as joining together? This is not an economic based alliance rather alliance to spread Islamic law and rules by their religion. Fortunately, they are too busy killing each other, allowing the civilized nationsto keep their guns dry for now.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

So they want to spread Islamic law, isn't that their own business?

If you mean spread Islamic law to non-Islamic countries, then with Russia in the north, China in the east, and Europe in the west, that seems unlikely.

 

[MadeintheUSA]

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

So they want to spread Islamic law, isn't that their own business?

If you mean spread Islamic law to non-Islamic countries, then with Russia in the north, China in the east, and Europe in the west, that seems unlikely.

It is not about the west or east. They can't have or build any economic alliance of strength among themselves when the basis of it being built relies on fundamentals being rooted in a 1500 year old religion and its text.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It is not about the west or east. They can't have or build any economic alliance of strength among themselves when the basis of it being built relies on fundamentals being rooted in a 1500 year old religion and its text.

The foundation can be built on the basic human logic that "United we are strong".

Islam is their primary identity, like being Chinese is my primary identity (I'm an Atheist so religion doesn't factor in).

Trying to aim for unity, considering the current chaotic state of affairs, seems like reasonable way to increase stability and to protect themselves. It's what I would have done, in their position.

 

[MadeintheUSA]

The foundation can be built on the basic human logic that "United we are strong".

Islam is their primary identity, like being Chinese is my primary identity (I'm an Atheist so religion doesn't factor in).

Trying to aim for unity, considering the current chaotic state of affairs, seems like reasonable way to increase stability and to protect themselves. It's what I would have done, in their position.

I keep repeating this - you can't equate religion with race or nation identity of being Chinese. Islam is based on 1500 year old religion and its tenants. Tenants of which are not feasible sound economic policy if the goal is to achieve economic power. And for them to unify means one religion and following its tenets first.

You see this example in your country. Uighurs are not Chinese first they are Muslims first.