The Muslim World | Medusa's Wreck!

[pakdefender]

IMO there is no Muslim "world" when all that we see is them reliving others and themselves from it .

And there is no hope as the article prescribes, because it is a religion that is shocking aggressive and violent towards 'non believers'. This does NOT mean every Muslim is looking to behead you or prescribes to violence.

I attended a conference a few years ago where there was serious and honest debate on this subject.

Yes , the only honest and real hope is in Genesis , Exodus , Syphilis and then Nukeinzionsnaus

 

[Kompromat]

I don't hate nor love you. I base my opinion on facts and more than happy to be corrected. However, your reply did not challenge me on the assertions, rather it had you talk about how old and how many you have in your ranks. Things I never disputed.

My purpose was to put your narrative in its historic pretext - if you educate yourself about that historic pretext i mentioned, you will see what the 'Islamosphere' actually means. The Muslim countries not only have shared a common faith for 1400 odd years, but also have had pre-Islamic trade and cultural links.

I take pride in representing an ancient civilization as our culture is stronger, our values are mature and we are going to ride off this tide of Islamophobia and Islamofascism, both from within and outside. Our future doesn't belong with the US or the West. We have had enough of that. The west has tried its ultimate best to destroy our way of life. An Islamic civilization when it re-emerges, when it regains it momentum and ends its enduring century of humiliation would be a strong ally of Beijing. Our cultural and trade ties with China are 1200 years old, way before your ancestors in the dark alleys of Europe were planning the genocide of native Americans to establish a tobacco republic.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Political affiliation is much easier to get over than religion, which for most people is ingrained to their heads as soon as they are born. Looking at the current state of Islamic world, I would say it'll take a minimum of 3 generations to get over this. Meaning nothing for a century.

I do not necessarily disagree with you, however it should be noted that Chinese civil wars were amongst the most bloody conflicts in the history of the world. Over 30 million Chinese died during the Taiping rebellion alone.

In fact if you look at a list of the most bloody conflicts in history, the Chinese civil wars dominate the top list, only WW2 had a higher death toll.

I don't underestimate the sectarian hatred that exists in the Muslim world, but I strongly believe that they can get over it. This is now the information age, I believe that they will not have to suffer as badly as we suffered, certainly not in terms of numbers. And they won't have to suffer for two centuries either, with some good leaders, some willpower and vision, they can get over it in decades rather than centuries.

Vision and understanding will be needed. As well as some luck with strong leaders.

Even on this forum alone, I would say the majority of Muslim members here have not fallen for the sectarian schism. And maybe even a majority would understand the pressing need for Muslim political unity, to some degree at least.

 

[Kompromat]

I do not necessarily disagree with you, however it should be noted that Chinese civil wars were amongst the most bloody conflicts in the history of the world. Over 30 million Chinese died during the Taiping rebellion alone.

In fact if you look at a list of the most bloody conflicts in history, the Chinese civil wars dominate the top list, only WW2 had a higher death toll.

I don't underestimate the sectarian hatred that exists in the Muslim world, but I strongly believe that they can get over it. This is now the information age, I believe that they will not have to suffer as badly as we suffered, certainly not in terms of numbers. And they won't have to suffer for two centuries either, with some good leaders, some willpower and vision, they can get over it in decades rather than centuries.

Vision and understanding will be needed. As well as some luck with strong leaders.

Even on this forum alone, I would say the majority of Muslim members here have not fallen for the sectarian schism. And maybe even a majority would understand the pressing need for Muslim political unity, to some degree at least.

The Christendom and Jewish nation doesn't discriminate between our sectarian woes. When they decide to bomb us, they don't just bomb one section, they bomb all of us. Sooner or later, the stupid sectarian tradition is going to die down and won't hinder cooperation between the Muslim world.

 

[MadeintheUSA]

My purpose was to put your narrative in its historic pretext - if you educate yourself about that historic pretext i mentioned, you will see what the 'Islamosphere' actually means. The Muslim countries not only have shared a common faith for 1400 odd years, but also have had pre-Islamic trade and cultural links.

I take pride in representing an ancient civilization as our culture is stronger, our values are mature and we are going to ride off this tide of Islamophobia and Islamofascism, both from within and outside. Our future doesn't belong with the US or the West. We have had enough of that. The west has tried its ultimate best to destroy our way of life. An Islamic civilization when it re-emerges, when it regains it momentum and ends its enduring century of humiliation would be a strong ally of Beijing. Our cultural and trade ties with China are 1200 years old, way before your ancestors in the dark alleys of Europe were planning the genocide of native Americans to establish a tobacco republic.

I'm afraid your historic perspective was never disputed. You keep thumping your chest about how old and how many you have in your ranks- while nobody disagrees. And yet you not able to refute the assertions in the video, which undoubtedly you have not watched in its entirety.

The west has not tried to destroy your life, you guys have done it to yourselves. This " victim hood" and always blaming external parties for all your own deeds was ALSO discussed is the video I linked.

I agree you need to get rid of your western dependence, not only as a country, but also as a people.

 

[The SC]

The whole article is based on the premise that there is such an entity as the "Muslim World". There is NO such thing!

There is a Muslim world, it is a fact (and it is no Medusa wreck), some people see it some don't. You can spell it M-u-s-l-i-m w-o-r-l-d, if you want or see it as non-united, that will be true too since it is composed of many nations not united economically, or militarily yet, but it is still there as a fact. It is working it way towards that aim of total unification, while each and every Muslim country is working on its own internal problems. In time there will be a great Muslim world union that will be very democratic and influential on the world scene, that is why all Muslim nations are working to establish Muslim democracy (not much different than what we call democracy today, it will only delete the hypocrisy from it, and make it a genuine democracy) in their lands. the result will be the common governance ground for the Union, since Islam is the other common ground. So, like in the apogee of Islam there will be a state law separate from religion and yet linked to it through the principles and ethics of Islam.

 

[Kompromat]

I'm afraid your historic perspective was never disputed. You keep thumping your chest about how old and how many you have in your ranks- while nobody disagrees. And yet you not able to refute the assertions in the video, which undoubtedly you have not watched in its entirety.

I have watched that debate before and many like it. They are all scripted load of bull.

The west has not tried to destroy your life, you guys have done it to yourselves. This " victim hood" and always blaming external parties for all your own deeds was ALSO discussed is the video I linked.

That is what the British told us. 'We colonised you, stole your wealth and resources, but you have only yourselves to blame'.
This is classic imperialistic bullshit narrative. This is what you said to the Japanese after committing a terrorist atrocity of quarter of a million innocent Japanese civilians, this is what you told the Vietnamese after bombing them into stone age. Your time is ending, ours is re-emerging, you've got the clocks but we have the time.

I agree you need to get rid of your western dependence, not only as a country, but also as a people.

We are not dependant on the west. West is dependant on us! - Who produces 60-70% of global energy output?

What we need to get rid of is the tyranny West has fostered in our countries, the puppet regimes and dictators they bankroll. We want democracy in the Muslim world but the one that represents our aspirations and our goals. We have been humiliated for 100 years - this is enough. Now we are powerful and independent enough to start a reconstruction and claim what's rightfully ours. If we do not stick together a bunch of coward zionists will keep bombing our besieged people in Gaza. If we do not stand up, we will all become Gaza and those who fire JDAMs at our homes will blame us for getting bombed.

 

[bionic soldier]

IMO there is no Muslim "world" when all that we see is them reliving others and themselves from it .

And there is no hope as the article prescribes, because it is a religion that is shocking aggressive and violent towards 'non believers'. This does NOT mean every Muslim is looking to behead you or prescribes to violence.

I attended a conference a few years ago where there was serious and honest debate on this subject.

Correction: Islam is not violent towards Non-believers, Sectarian-Islamic inventions like sunnism, shiasm and their sub sects are violent and extremist. Good thing is that ISLAM condemns sectism, extremism as well as violence towards anyone.

Islam talks about war as well as peace. Islam never talks about violence/war within the same country like Prophet Mohammad saww never declared war against meccans during His tenure in Mecca as a citizen same is true with Prophet Moses pbuh, Jesus pbuh and others. They never declared war or violence within the state against the same state. Moses pbuh said, just, "Let His people go". Jesus pbuh said, "if someone slap you on one side of your face offer the other". Prophet Mohammad saww never took personal revenges rather He is the best example of forbearance. Also there are conditions in ISLAM which permits war otherwise "ALLAH doesnt like violence or Injustice"...Hope you know these conditions.

 

[T-Rex]

We need a lot of ground work, we need to get our citizens interests, most of all we need to know that we share a common destiny. Even if we do not integrate into a single country, greater cooperation, free border trade, visa free travel will be very good options and would lead to greater economic and cultural links. On the govt and military level, not much can be achieved until people of our nations are aware that our shared humiliation can only be defeated through sticking together.

Whatever you expect will only happen when the Muslim governments are formed by the people and for the people and hence part of the people. In most of the Muslim countries the government is an alien being planted by foreign masters and therefore look after the interests of their foreign masters. So, when you say that nothing can be done at the government level you're wrong. Matter of fact, that is the first thing which needs to be fixed.

 

[pakdefender]

@MadeintheUSA
The debate you posted is one of the many based on intellectual dishonesty with sole purpose to throw poo at Islam and Muslims
If you will explain to me how God had a son , then I may consider your attempt as an honest one

 

[MadeintheUSA]

I have watched that debate before and many like it. They are all scripted load of bull.

What exactly did she say that was scripted and bull? I'm still waiting on you to refute her on substance, while the other panelist were shockingly lacking.

That is what the British told us. 'We colonised you, stole your wealth and resources, but you have only yourselves to blame'.
This is classic imperialistic bullshit narrative. This is what you said to the Japanese after committing a terrorist atrocity of quarter of a million innocent Japanese civilians, this is what you told the Vietnamese after bombing them into stone age. Your time is ending, ours is re-emerging, you've got the clocks but we have the time.

So your victim hood is from the British empire days? Did the British or imperialist make you house Osama Bin Laden and the current condition of your country?

What is behind this claim of 'your time is emerging', if you could kindly be specific. Is it economic, military, welfare, prosperity forthcoming? In what field do you see that your time is coming. When most of "yours" is busy killing each other and trying to establish a caliphate of terror.

We are not dependant on the west. West is dependant on us! - Who produces 60-70% of global energy output?

What we need to get rid of is the tyranny West has fostered in our countries, the puppet regimes and dictators they bankroll. We want democracy in the Muslim world but the one that represents our aspirations and our goals. We have been humiliated for 100 years - this is enough. Now we are powerful and independent enough to start a reconstruction and claim what's rightfully ours. If we do not stick together a bunch of coward zionists will keep bombing our besieged people in Gaza. If we do not stand up, we will all become Gaza and those who fire JDAMs at our homes will blame us for getting bombed.

I'm confused, we gave you Musharraf, Zia, KSA monarchy, Ghadafii, Assad, Saddam, Basher (Sudan), Mubark, Ayatoallah princely states and monarchy OR your landowner system called Zamindar I believe?

Right now your NW frontier is worse than Gaza. And you have done it to your own people again.

We are already no 1 oil producing country and no 1 energy producing country. When I spoke about dependency, I was talking about your country, Pakistan. Even so the west if dependent on you for oil, it is still richer and more prosperous than all of you.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Correction: Islam is not violent towards Non-believers, Sectarian-Islamic inventions like sunnism, shiasm and their sub sects are violent and extremist. Good thing is that ISLAM condemns sectism, extremism as well as violence towards anyone.

Islam talks about war as well as peace. Islam never talks about violence/war within the same country like Prophet Mohammad saww never declared war against meccans during His tenure in Mecca as a citizen same is true with Prophet Moses pbuh, Jesus pbuh and others. They never declared war or violence within the state against the same state. Moses pbuh said, just, "Let His people go". Jesus pbuh said, "if someone slap you on one side of your face offer the other". Prophet Mohammad saww never took personal revenges rather He is the best example of forbearance. Also there are conditions in ISLAM which permits war otherwise "ALLAH doesnt like violence or Injustice"...Hope you know these conditions.

The problems about Islam is her leaders. Other than Nasser and Ataturk, there is not a single Muslim leaders today, willing to emancipate the mind of their citizens.

Malaysia has good opportunities to be secular and progressive but she squandered her opportunities. Her leaders choose to unite people by hate, and religion bigotry, in order to conceal their corruption. Her leaders invented the Chinese voodoo and spew anti-Chinese sentiments.

Saudi is one more good examples. Instead of using their wealth to benefit the Arabs, she uses it to prop up USA. US dollar is not call petro-dollar for nothing. Due to Saudi, US fiat currency is accepted all over the world. Overtly Saudi and USA are allies. Covertly Saudi has her own ambition.

Saudi funded the Sunni insurgencies and madrassahs all over the world, spreading bigotry and hate. Such gangsterism will not harm the west an iota. Saudi's folly will only harm the Muslim world.

Pakistani elites sincerely want to modernize but Pakistan has too much centrifugal forces. She needs to Islamamize to prevent fragmentation. That is tragedy but not the fault of her leaders.

 

[MadeintheUSA]

@MadeintheUSA
The debate you posted is one of the many based on intellectual dishonesty with sole purpose to throw poo at Islam and Muslims
If you will explain to me how God had a son , then I may consider your attempt as an honest one

What does 'how God have a son' have to do with the debate I posted? The existence of god or his son was not debated.

 

[pakdefender]

What does 'how God have a son' have to do with the debate I posted? The existence of god or his son was not debated.

hahahah , there we go

 

[MadeintheUSA]

hahahah , there we go

Yes, there we go, where logic was a humorous concept to you. Perhaps you could follow up with asking me what came first, the chicken or the egg.